Auxiliary Water Pump issues on Gen 1 LS V8

[DaleGrib]

I am having an issue where my Aux Water Pump is not shutting off when the car is off and it is killing my battery. Was told it is constantly wanting to pull 2 volts when the car is off. Has anyone else had this issue? I am having someone troubleshoot the car tomorrow and gonna make sure it's not an electrical issue or PCM Issue. I just had this Pump replaced this year with an OEM part from Tasca so I really hope the pump is not defective.

 

[joegr]

Well, I don't see how the pump can cause the DATC to keep giving it partial power.
The DATC controls power to the pump, not the PCM.
The aux pump is normally supposed to run for a little while after the engine is shut down. All power to the pump should end after the car goes to sleep (about 30 minutes after the last switch changes (with the key off)). I suspect that your "mechanic" doesn't really understand the car (it's hard to blame him for that), and is looking at one of the symptoms of your battery drain problem, and not the cause. It's easy to mislead yourself with parasitic drain problems.

 

[DaleGrib]

Well, I don't see how the pump can cause the DATC to keep giving it partial power.
The DATC controls power to the pump, not the PCM.
The aux pump is normally supposed to run for a little while after the engine is shut down. All power to the pump should end after the car goes to sleep (about 30 minutes after the last switch changes (with the key off)). I suspect that your "mechanic" doesn't really understand the car (it's hard to blame him for that), and is looking at one of the symptoms of your battery drain problem, and not the cause. It's easy to mislead yourself with parasitic drain problems.

I will let him know what you just said but I am pretty sure he noticed the draw of power a while after he had last had the car on after he had changed the alternator. He said he is familar with the LS so hopefully if that is not the drain on the battery he will find the actual cause. I just dropped it off for him to have it for a day or so and hopefully will know something soon.

Edit: I talked to him again he said it was running still after 2 hours of the car sitting there yesterday with no key in it. So I will update you all when he finds out what is going on in case anyone else runs into this same issue.

 

[joegr]

...he said it was running still after 2 hours of the car sitting there yesterday with no key in it. ...

No key, and no doors/trunk/hood open or closed, locked or unlocked? (Nothing can change state, or the car will wake up.)

The aux pump is powered by relay 11-5 in the underhood box. Has it been changed. Does the problem go away if that relay is removed?

 

[DaleGrib]

No key, and no doors/trunk/hood open or closed, locked or unlocked? (Nothing can change state, or the car will wake up.)

The aux pump is powered by relay 11-5 in the underhood box. Has it been changed? Does the problem go away if that relay is removed?

Correct. I will ask them about the relay and no it never has been changed or removed. He had also just said to me recently that it had been running for 35 mins straight with nothing being done on the car just that pump kept running.

 

[DaleGrib]

He also replied with this just now.
If I pull the relay it shuts the pump off. I am at 1 hour 16 minutes. No doors opened or closed, no change in conditions

 

[joegr]

I think your most likely possible faults are:
The relay is stuck. It's easy to measure continuity across the relay contacts with the relay out to see if this is the problem.
The Brown/blue wire from the relay coil to the DATC is shorted to ground somewhere. The first step here would be to disconnect the DATC and see if the relay still closes.
The DATC has an internal fault.
The DATC is acting a little crazy due to another fault, such as a short in the DCCV.

 

[DaleGrib]

I think your most likely possible faults are:
The relay is stuck. It's easy to measure continuity across the relay contacts with the relay out to see if this is the problem.
The Brown/blue wire from the relay coil to the DATC is shorted to ground somewhere. The first step here would be to disconnect the DATC and see if the relay still closes.
The DATC has an internal fault.
The DATC is acting a little crazy due to another fault, such as a short in the DCCV.

Thanks @joegr I will let them know that. They said they had swapped one of the relays that was the same and it made no difference so they are still digging around in there. Hopefully, it's not a bad DCCV I just replaced that thing this year with the OEM part.

 

[DaleGrib]

Ok here is what he just said.
He has done lots of testing chasing wires and all. He took the fuse out to the DCCV and the aux pump does indeed shut off then. But if he just unplugs the DCCV the aux water pump still stays on and constantly runs. He thinks with all the testing that he has done that the DATC is causing the issue so I am going to try to get one at the boneyard in the am and see if that is indeed the cause.

 

[joegr]

...He took the fuse out to the DCCV and the aux pump does indeed shut off then. ...

Well, that's just silly. That same fuse feeds the power to the aux pump. That's like saying "I unplugged the extension cord that my radio and lamp are plugged into, and the the lamp went off when the radio did." Of course it did. Proves nothing.

... that the DATC is causing the issue so I am going to try to get one at the boneyard in the am and see if that is indeed the cause.

Yes, that's a good plan at this point, and the odds are reasonably good that it will be the DATC. It's just a big shame that he isn't willing (or capable?) of doing the simple tests needed to be certain that it is the DATC.

 

[DaleGrib]

Well, that's just silly. That same fuse feeds the power to the aux pump. That's like saying "I unplugged the extension cord that my radio and lamp are plugged into, and the the lamp went off when the radio did." Of course it did. Proves nothing.



Yes, that's a good plan at this point, and the odds are reasonably good that it will be the DATC. It's just a big shame that he isn't willing (or capable?) of doing the simple tests needed to be certain that it is the DATC.

Are the DATC's from all gen 1's interchangeable ? I see Ford parts giant shows
Ford Part No.:XW4Z-19980-CA
XW4Z-19980-CA - Ford Parts Giant

However, all the ones I see used on places like eBay are part number
XW4H-18C612

Just trying to make sure so when I go to the junkyard tomorrow that I am ok if the numbers don't match.

 

[joegr]

I assume that they are, but I do not know this for a fact.

 

[DaleGrib]

I assume that they are, but I do not know this for a fact.

Luckily my local boneyard had a bunch of Ls's come in within the last 2 months so hopefully, I can get lucky and find a good clean DATC as the inside of my LS looks very clean for its age.

 

[DaleGrib]

Now today with Forscan I got all these codes.
B1446 New code
B1676 New code
C1095 New code
U1262 New code
p0453 Had this before
B1994 Had this before just need to fix my airbag wire again under the drivers seat for that one

I want to bash my head against the wall now.

 

[joegr]

Well, darn. Your battery is probably pretty weak from all the parasitic discharge. Some of those codes could really be related to that (B1446, B1676, C1095), and may go away after a while if the battery recovers.

 

[DaleGrib]

Well, darn. Your battery is probably pretty weak from all the parasitic discharge. Some of those codes could really be related to that (B1446, B1676, C1095), and may go away after a while if the battery recovers.

I have had the battery disconnected when the car is not in use till the problem is sorted. I did put my battery on charge and it had a 95% charge on it before I charged it, so not sure if that would have caused it.
I am gonna go back out and check it again once the charger hits 100% which should not be very long from now. I have the battery disconnected from the car while it's charging so no risk of the issue killing it.

 

[DaleGrib]

Yeah, I am still seeing the same codes on a fully charged battery. I have cleared the codes and then I read them again and they come right back instantly. I have a spare PCM in the closest and I have that clone VCM tool and a copy of Ford IDS that I just have to figure out how to get this clone tool to work with IDS as it is not as easy as you would think. Would it possibly be wise to swap out the PCM with this other one? Or am I jumping the gun cause all these things are starting to make me think there is a chance that the PCM is bad.

 

[AmsterDutch]

B1446 New code
B1676 New code

What does the Generator look like on the ForScan Dash board (Live Feed) Tell me percentages? they should be constantly changing depending on what you're running when the car is on...such as radio, AC, light etc. etc. etc. ??????? What brand did you put in your 1st Gen?

 

[DaleGrib]

What does the Generator look like on the ForScan Dash board (Live Feed) Tell me percentages? they should be constantly changing depending on what you're running when the car is on...such as radio, AC, light etc. etc. etc. ??????? What brand did you put in your 1st Gen?

Once my wife gets home tonight I will have time to be able to go outside and scan it again for you to let you know the readings. I used a Brand New Bosch Alternator when it just got replaced.

 

[AmsterDutch]

Once my wife gets home tonight I will have time to be able to go outside and scan it again for you to let you know the readings. I used a Brand New Bosch Alternator when it just got replaced.

Bosch doesn't vibe with the Lincoln LS ...yes I'm aware that the DCCV OEM is made by Bosch but Bosch is one brand I try to stay away from ...my DB Electric from Amazon is working like a TOP!!!! I paid $21.89 on Amazon Open BOX...yes it was even a return...BUT...I read the reviews and many many ppl with 1st Gen Lincoln LSes said it worked great...I've heard ppl say MotorCraft or nothing when it comes to 2000-2002 Lincoln LSes but I see the DB Electric Generator has proved that theory wrong

 

[AmsterDutch]

I was wrong I paid 26.99

DB Electrical AFD0071 New Alternator For Lincoln Ls 3.9L 3.9 00 01 02 2000 2001 2002 8256, 3.9L 3.9 Thunderbird 02 2002 112955 XR8U-10300-CE XR8Z-10346-CE XW4U-10300-BA XW4U-10300-BB XW4Z-10346-BA
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return window closed on Mar 24, 2020
$26.99
Condition: Used - Very Good - Item will come in original packaging. Packaging will be damaged.

 

[DaleGrib]

Bosch doesn't vibe with the Lincoln LS ...yes I'm aware that the DCCV OEM is made by Bosch but Bosch is one brand I try to stay away from ...my DB Electric from Amazon is working like a TOP!!!! I paid $21.89 on Amazon Open BOX...yes it was even a return...BUT...I read the reviews and many many ppl with 1st Gen Lincoln LSes said it worked great...I've heard ppl say MotorCraft or nothing when it comes to 2000-2002 Lincoln LSes but I see the DB Electric Generator has proved that theory wrong

I never have heard or read anything about a Bosch alternator not working with the LS if you can please link me. I talked with the dealership today and they said they were almost certain Bosch is also who made the Motorcraft part for this car. The only thing I have seen people say not to use Bosch was 02 sensors on this car for the most part and on that, I would also agree. I went a whole day after having this alternator changed before the codes even appeared so I really doubt this alternator is causing the problems. Also was having this parasitic issue before I changed the alternator along with a traction control warning on the dash.

 

[AmsterDutch]

I never have heard or read anything about a Bosch alternator not working with the LS if you can please link me. I talked with the dealership today and they said they were almost certain Bosch is also who made the Motorcraft part for this car. The only thing I have seen people say not to use Bosch was 02 sensors on this car for the most part and on that, I would also agree. I went a whole day after having this alternator changed before the codes even appeared so I really doubt this alternator is causing the problems.

O2 Sensor, Spark Plugs, Generator, Starter, the list goes on and on ...but to each there own is what i say...I personally had bad experiences with there parts

 

[DaleGrib]

O2 Sensor, Spark Plugs, Generator, Starter, the list goes on and on ...but to each there own is what i say...I personally had bad experiences with there parts

I really doubt the alternator is my issue for this stuff. Plus I had the alternator bench tested and it was perfect. I know the thing about the alternator and the PCM clashing if not having the right module or something in it but I am pretty sure this does as well. I am just really starting to lean toward the possibility of it just being a bad PCM.

 

[joegr]

I'm not sure why you are aiming at the PCM. Most of those codes are not related to the PCM.