Blue Flame, All Out

[driller]

I'm just starting to work on the Blue Flame (when I can find the time) and I have decided either before or just after the body work, I am going all out on the engine and doing a fully forged bottom end to go along with the already ported heads and custom cams.

I have had this in the planning stages for a while and I have decided to quit putting it off and just do it. I talked to the closest guy I trust around here and he graciously declined to build the motor but would be willing to do the install, break-in and help in the tuning.

I want it to be a high-compression naturally-aspirated build. I'm on the fence with the stroker kit, but I realize the value of the added cubes. Nitrous would likely be in the future for the track and possibly a water alcohol/methanol injection setup for the street.

The heads and cams were from Fox Lake Racing and he will be my first contact for the shortblock. MMR, Livernois and ModMax are also some places I've researched.

The driveline already has virtually everything else done including a built transmission, high-stall converter, MMX driveshaft, 4.30 gears with a Detroit Tru-Trak differential with just about every brace you could imagine except a true driveshaft loop.

So, let's get this discussion started. What are the best parts and what would your choices be? How much compression and how do we get there?

Anyone got a good spare Teskid block laying around?

 

[danny_holtermann]

sooooo, why spend so much on the blocks bottom end and have it with higher compression but not charge it in any way????

 

[driller]

Cause I like to do it differently.

 

[slowmkviii]

This sounds awesome I always wanted to do a NA build on my mark
I saw this the other day maybe it will help
http://tcstangs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108695

 

[brentalan]

If this were my project I would not take advice from someone who calls themselves "SlowMKVIII"

 

[LaserSVT]

Sweet JP! Cant wait to see her runnin again! That car is a legend!

 

[MediumD]

I am going all out on the engine and doing a fully forged bottom end to go along with the already ported heads and custom cams.

Yay!

I want it to be a high-compression naturally-aspirated build.

Aww.

 

[mespock]

I have an extra 4.6 engine laying around ...

 

[driller]

This sounds awesome I always wanted to do a NA build on my mark
I saw this the other day maybe it will help
http://tcstangs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108695

I have a couple options like that but the CR is not what I'm looking for.

If this were my project I would not take advice from someone who calls themselves "SlowMKVIII"

LOL!

Sweet JP! Cant wait to see her runnin again! That car is a legend!

Well, I hope the legend will live on.

I have an extra 4.6 engine laying around ...

You never know...

 

[95sc]

I know it's too late as you already have the heads done.If you want to make decent power N/A and have a good power-band switch to C heads.B heads are great for a power adder , not so great for N/A applications unless you're going to spin your motor to 8500 rpms.

 

[kustomizingkid]

If I was building the bottom end I'd spin that thing to the moon... 8000+ rpms ftw

Can't wait to see the build.

 

[driller]

What about the FRP Boss 5.0L modular block?

 

[slowmkviii]

You know to change CR you can just buy new pistons

 

[driller]

I have a bit more research to do, but here's what I'm thinking of...

• FRP Boss 5.0L Modular block
• Kellog 4340 Forged Stroker Crankshaft
• Manley 4340 H-beam Rods
• Custom Diamond 2618 Forged Dome Pistons w/ valve reliefs
• File Fit Moly Rings
• Melling High Volume Oil Pump w/ Billet Gears
• Internally Balanced

...with the ported heads, Bullet cams, custom intake and Kooks headers currently on the car. :steering

 

[ratdog442]

What about the FRP Boss 5.0L modular block?

You would have the first Boss VIII that is for sure.

 

[chris2523]

I have a bit more research to do, but here's what I'm thinking of...

• FRP Boss 5.0L Modular block
• Kellog 4340 Forged Stroker Crankshaft
• Manley 4340 H-beam Rods
• Custom Diamond 2618 Forged Dome Pistons w/ valve reliefs
• File Fit Moly Rings
• Melling High Volume Oil Pump w/ Billet Gears
• Internally Balanced

...with the ported heads, Bullet cams, custom intake and Kooks headers currently on the car. :steering

with the big bore block and stroker crank, what does that bring the displacement to?

 

[Big Mike]

Damn, wish I had your money! Sounds pretty sweet.

 

[driller]

with the big bore block and stroker crank, what does that bring the displacement to?

323 cu in or a 5.3L

 

[Dmaup]

That sounds bad A$$ hope you end up doing it!

 

[chris2523]

323 cu in or a 5.3L

sweet. you can get some serious displacement with a little bit of work then huh.

 

[driller]

sweet. you can get some serious displacement with a little bit of work then huh.

It's still a small-block.

But with staying naturally aspirated, displacement is a key component.

 

[Kevin O'Connell]

Displacement

Anybody know if there's a stroker crank kit and different piston set ups to both increase stroke and compression?
If so, will the factory computer be able to adjust for these changes?
Will the factory block stand it?
What's the max overbore anyone's ever done here? One book I've got talks about changing sleeves in the block to increase bore. Sounds like this can result in 0.080" overbores.
If we balance rotating assemblies, what effect would overboring and stroking have on RPM limits, torque band, etc?

 

[driller]

Anybody know if there's a stroker crank kit and different piston set ups to both increase stroke and compression?
If so, will the factory computer be able to adjust for these changes?
Will the factory block stand it?
What's the max overbore anyone's ever done here? One book I've got talks about changing sleeves in the block to increase bore. Sounds like this can result in 0.080" overbores.
If we balance rotating assemblies, what effect would overboring and stroking have on RPM limits, torque band, etc?

Stroker 'kits' are readily available. You will bump compression with just the stroker setup by about 1/2 a point. It is easily tunable and well within capabilities of the stock block.

You can overbore the stock sleeves up to 0.030" over. You can go up to 3.700" diameter bore with custom sleeves and a lot of machine work.

Properly built and balanced internals can do 8000 plus RPMs.

My only quandary at this point is the pistons. Whether to go with flat top pistons at approximately an 11:1 static compression ratio or custom domed pistons for even higher compression.

 

[chris2523]

Properly built and balanced internals can do 8000 plus RPMs.

winding a v8 to 8000 rpm just sounds so cool.

 

[driller]

Fox Lake Racing will be doing the build on the new motor.

Only the final piston and cam selection remain to be determined. I told him I didn't want to leave anything on the table but I didn't want to create a future nightmare either. Right now we're probably at closer to 11:1 rather than 12 or higher static compression ratio. His primary concern was dynamic compression with the stroker, big bore and possibly bigger cam.

The embers of the Blue Flame are beginning to glow.