Blue Flame, All Out

After much wrangling over the setup, I've got to decide by tomorrow on the pistons and if I want to bump the cams up.

I've been studying hard and believe I will choose the flat top pistons with valve reliefs. Compression with these should be 11:1 to 11.5:1 depending on head gasket, deck height and the amount of relief for the valves. Any more than that and I fear it will need race gas 24/7 and I don't want to go that far.

As far as the cams, I've researched after talking to Fox Lake and believe I can go with a bit more duration. Probably in the 225-235 range at 0.050" (265-270 adv.). Here again I want the most out of the combo but not at the expense of streetability. A rough idle won't bother me but I don't want to have to resort to a vacuum pump. I'll probably give a range to choose from and leave it to the experts for actual selection of the profile.
 
We will have a video of stage 3 Crower cams in next couple weeks :D
 
JP if you are interested Kinsler does Engine Modeling to see what potential their manifolds can offer. They require a bunch of stuff like cams, head flows, cr's etc. It cost about $50 for them to do. It might be a light for you to use as you look down the road. Best wishes in the build!
 
95sc said:
We will have a video of stage 3 Crower cams in next couple weeks :D
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Faster! Faster! LOL... :D

Roadboss said:
JP if you are interested Kinsler does Engine Modeling to see what potential their manifolds can offer. They require a bunch of stuff like cams, head flows, cr's etc. It cost about $50 for them to do. It might be a light for you to use as you look down the road. Best wishes in the build!
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Thanks Charlie! :)
 
k9t8m said:
is it done yet?
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LOL, I'll consider myself lucky to have it done for Carlisle.

The current wait is 8 weeks for the engine build plus whatever it takes to get someplace to do the install, break-in and initial tuning. Even if everything is timed perfectly, that's like mid-May at best. :(
 
no kidding. carlisle is quickly approaching. My to do list hasnt gotten much smaller over the winter either.
 
After much research I think I may be underestimating the build. Using Performance Trends Engine Analyzer software, I was able to closely replicate the current 4.6L setup and then compare it to the new 5.3L motor currently being built.

Using the same heads/cams/intake, we're looking at 50HP gain at 4500 rpms, 100HP gain by 5500 rpms and 150 HP gain at 6500 rpms.

The theoretical peak now sits at 368 HP @ 7000 rpms versus 535 HP @ 7500 rpms with the new build! Of course these numbers are at the crank and I will be moving the bar even higher with bigger custom cams.

The old numbers may be higher than actual because of the tired stock bottom end, and the new numbers may be a little high because of the intake and throttle body assumptions, but the overall picture is quite clear. If the intake and/or throttle body is not a restriction, we should easily see over 400 RWHP naturally aspirated. :D

engineanalyzer.JPG
 
Update...

Block machine work is done except for the final honing of the cylinders and the rotating assembly is ready to be balanced.

New camshafts are ordered for a 8000 rpm top end with a N/A profile for monster HP from 5000 rpms and up. ;)

I need to order a SFI damper, windage tray and a SFI flexplate. If I don't get busy soon, I'm going to have a nice engine on a stand! :eek:
 
driller said:
After much wrangling over the setup, I've got to decide by tomorrow on the pistons and if I want to bump the cams up.

I've been studying hard and believe I will choose the flat top pistons with valve reliefs. Compression with these should be 11:1 to 11.5:1 depending on head gasket, deck height and the amount of relief for the valves. Any more than that and I fear it will need race gas 24/7 and I don't want to go that far.

As far as the cams, I've researched after talking to Fox Lake and believe I can go with a bit more duration. Probably in the 225-235 range at 0.050" (265-270 adv.). Here again I want the most out of the combo but not at the expense of streetability. A rough idle won't bother me but I don't want to have to resort to a vacuum pump. I'll probably give a range to choose from and leave it to the experts for actual selection of the profile.
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Hey Driller, you do know that Chevrolet owns the rights to "Blue Flame" don't you. That is the name they applied to their 6 cylinder engines.
If you have a 2 or 3 way chip added to your PCM you could likely run 11.5 or better compression on the street with good results in each tune mode. The guys in the; http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/ are getting great performance from 5 Star Tune's programs. The 4.6 or the 5.4 DOHC should be very happy in the 8500+ rpm and above range with the right cams, springs and valves.
I have been playing around with the idea of having some cams ground using the profile of either A Honda CBR or a Kawasaki ZX of the over 1000 cc engine size. Good Idle, great performance and very good torque band. Ford is a pioneer in the DOHC develpment since before WW II but Honda took it to new levels and Ford was working with Yamaha in R&D for 4 cam and 4 valve engines back in the late '70s. I'm sure you know that compression is the key to really great power output from a N/A engine.
From the info I got from Smokey Yunik the NASCAR teams were running compression in the 20s with the electronics to make an engine live with it. Then NASCAR made a rule change that limited the compression ratio because the cars were still going too fast.
Good luck with whatever ou build and I will be waiting to see some video of it when it' done.
 
Moto Mel said:
Hey Driller, you do know that Chevrolet owns the rights to "Blue Flame" don't you. That is the name they applied to their 6 cylinder engines.
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LOL, not like I'm advertising, it's just a moniker that stuck. :D

I already have the SCT flip-chip which gives 4 separate available tunes (plus the stock tune which will likely be useless). For now, there will be a street tune and a track tune, pretty much as you described. I can cut timing back on the street tune to be safe on pump gas and crank it up with some higher octane fuel at the track. Even so, compression was suggested to be no more than 11.5 for pump gas (93 octane) with the proper cam selection.
 
Coincidentally, the shortblock is done and will be picked up this week.

The car itself is a bit behind schedule. I'm hoping to have everything done by the end of July, including the new motor.
 
Don Pfau said:
Is That the 94mm bore Ford racing block ???
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Yes, it is a 3.700 bore. With the stock crank, it is 5.0L displacement.

Ford Racing Modular Motor Boss 5.0L Block

The Boss 5.0 block is a 4.6L deck height, 94mm cylinder bore cast iron block. Cast in Ford's Cleveland plant, it uses a proprietary iron mix to yield the strongest possible casting strength with least porosity and greatest consistency.

- Siamese 94mm Bore

- 17mm main web minimal thickness

- 4 Bolt Main with interference fit nodular iron machined caps

- Increased main web window size for less oil movement and greater power
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With the stroker crank, the displacement is 323 cu.in. or 5.3L, just shy of the 5.4L cloaked in a 4.6L deck height platform for about 15% more displacement.
 
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