Brake Caliper Squeak...Not typ pad squeal

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vinnmann11

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I have been dealing with an annoying front brake squeak. It is NOT the pad on rotor that seems to have plagued many others. I replaced the stock front pads with adaptive one ceramics from Napa. When replacing, I also replaced the brake hardware including caliper dust boots, lubed the caliper bolts, and used the supplied "disc brake quiet". Things were thoroughly cleaned with brake cleaner. Everything was done according to the instructions that came with the pads, and the procedure from my AllDataDIY subscription. I have done dozens of brake jobs in the past without any issues.

After about 3 days, I noticed a squeak whenever I applied the brakes. The sound is not dependent on vehicle speed, direction of travel, braking load or anything else. It makes the exact same squeak when I am sitting in the garage with the car off and in park. I try topping off the fluid as described in this thread with no luck. I enlisted my trusty assistant (my 10-yr old son) to sit in the car and continually press and release the brake pedal. The sound is definitely coming from the calipers. So I take everything apart and replace the caliper bolts with new ones. Ample grease was used on the new bolts. Put it back together and there is no difference. I take everything apart again and put ample amounts of sil-glyde brake lubricant on every possible metal part that comes in contact with any other metal. The squeak is gone...for about 5 stops. Then it is back and just as annoying as ever. I deal with the squeak for a week and then repeat the sil-glyde procedure with the same results.

What the heck is causing this?

Should I:
1. try new oem brake hardware?
2. Be happy that my aftermarket stereo/nav unit & speakers should soon be arriving soon and deal with the squeak until I can turn up the music real loud?
3. Something else?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
That's interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did the same thing! Just recently replaced the front brake rotors and pads with NAPA stuff, premium rotors and Ceramic pads. The reason I chose NAPA ceramics is that I had no problems before with them, no squeal ever.....so installed the new ones about a month ago, and squeal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn! but only one side squeals?????? Didn't do anything different, expect did not break them in as usual..................................I usually do a 60 mph to 0 mph hard brake a few times to heat'em up. Maybe NAPA brake changed formula?
 
So, my best guess (and that's all it is) is that the squeak is from the the pistons in the calipers. If so, replacing the calipers may be the answer. I have to admit, I've never heard of this problem before.
 
joegr said:
So, my best guess (and that's all it is) is that the squeak is from the the pistons in the calipers. If so, replacing the calipers may be the answer. I have to admit, I've never heard of this problem before.
Click to expand...

I had a metallic grinding noise (like a sheathed rusty cable) that was only cured by replacing the caliper.
 
not entirely related but I would like to just add that I replaced my rotors and pads the day i bought my car, about 2 weeks ago. I used Duralast gold rotors and Duralast gold ceramic pads. i used brake quiet on the backs of the pads even though it didn't seem necessary. The duralast golds have a rubberized backing to prevent metal on metal contact. So far the braking has been SMOOOOTH and strong, silent and dust free. Plus lifetime replacement guarantee.

If it did end up being your pads.... these are the ones i'd go with.... and like i did, use brake quiet spray. it's better than grease. It's tacky and makes the pad stick nice and firm to the caliper.
 
I replaced all my front calipers also and still have the sqeak. Got all new remaned calipers. POed.
 
yep, ive had that too.

The noise comes from the brake caliper expanding/stretching under the strain of the system pressure. Id bet its because they are aluminum, cast iron wouldnt flex the same way.

My calipers did make the sounds and i did the normal brake job and it was gone but now i noticed it again the other day. I wonder if it was related to the pad thickness or piston position in the caliper bore. The thinner the pad the more side load the caliper bore would see and maybe spread more??

Just my thoughts; i could be wrong.
 
fixed problem

I used the Napa ceramics and new rotors and got squeaking, here's what i did to fix the problem. removed wheel, opened caliper, removed pads. The pads came with backing plate shims. I had greased the outboard side of the plates and not then inboard side that touches the brake pad backing, so flipped off the shim and greased it, put the pads with shims back in the caliper, torqued the caliper bolts to 26ftlbs, replace wheel, torqued lug nuts to 85ftlbs in star pattern, no more squeal or pulsating brakes. all is well.......for now :)
 
I am going to give that a try tonight. Did your squeak occur with the car at rest like mine?

tireman said:
replace wheel, torqued lug nuts
Click to expand...

I remember a few years ago, my neighbor had his car over. When I was getting the torque wrench out to tighten his lug nuts he laughed and tightened them with my impact wrench. About 4 months later he had the car over again. The impact couldn't break the nuts loose. Got a breaker bar & a 4' piece of pipe, and proceeded to shear off 75% of the studs on the car. After replacing the studs he asked me to get the torque wrench when we were installing the wheels.
 
85ftlbs

yeah, i saw the 100ftlbs and another at 85ftlbs. so i chose the 85ftlbs, if it has problems at 85 i'll move up to 100ftlbs. vinn, give it a try, grease under those backing shims, let us know what you find
 
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tireman;873828I usually do a 60 mph to 0 mph hard brake a few times to heat'em up. Maybe NAPA brake changed formula?[/QUOTE said:
Really? I was always told that when you replace brakes you do a couple gradual stops at low speeds to seat them properly. I never heard of doing fast, hard panic stops. (Just asking, NOT accusing) Thanks, mot

~ I just did brakes all the way around and used the NAPA premium rotors and the ceramics as that's what they listed as OEM. It's been about a year, and no issues. ( Knock on wood ) other that the issue that my rotors always get a coat of rust on them b/c our house is located in a rather humid area. :( But, a few stops takes that off.
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Hey Mot

Yeah, do a search on replacing brake pads and you will find the 60 to 0 hard break in routine. Maybe a myth, not sure, but some people use it.
 
OK. Thanks. I guess I just never heard of that and have ALWAYS been told to do slow, gradual stops as opposed to hard fast stops so the pads don't overheat. (And this is coming from my uncle who has been a mechanic for 30+ years and usually will hammer full throttle on things I wouldn't have thought necessary. He's a great mechanic and has taught me a lot over the years. Plus, all the mechanics in his shop and others I have known have always stood by that as well.) But, as they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat, I'll just stick w what I have been taught and works for me. If the fast, hard stops work, great. Always something to remember.

On the plus side, it gives me a little comfort realizing that it isn't too bad knowing how my wife drives. LOL shhhhhhhhhh ;)
 
mot said:
...And this is coming from my uncle who has been a mechanic for 30+ years
Click to expand...

Not to rip on your uncle, but that is the problem right there: old tech vs new tech. Brake lining material has significantly changed since 30 years ago. Brembo, StopTech, and all other big brake kit manufacturers recommend doing a bed-in procedure. I waited about 150km before performing mine - zero issues and excellent stopping power since.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
 
Interesting. Thanks. He's actually pretty up to date on the new technology as well. Maybe just not on this. I will pass the link along to him in an email.

Usually what i did was the same, just at around 30 MPH.
 
New hardware, CRC disc brake quiet on pads, hardware, between shims. Squeak disappears for 5 stops and returns. WTF? Anyone have a suggestion?
 
Give them time to break in.

I replaced my brakes not too long ago (couple of weeks) and they make less noise and brake stronger each day.
 
Kit manufacturers tend to purchase friction materials from manufacturers that produce “performance” products, which tend not to be so much new tech as many of the OE products sold to vehicle manufacturers.

Consumer labeling tends to run with the type of fiber reinforcement used in the friction material, such as organic, ceramic, metallic. But that is only the fiber and the other dozen or so components in the recipe will have more influence on the frictional, wear and NVH characteristics then the fiber itself. And in the aftermarket, those descriptions can get trampled on due to marketing pressure. The WOW material over the last decade has been ‘ceramic’, which on the OE side means that the product used potassium octititanate fibers for reinforcement. However if aftermarket X companies marketing department convinces the R&D group that sales would improve if they marketed a formulation as ceramic, it has been shown that some companies will add a small percentage of ceramic or POT fiber into a semi-met formulation for marketing purposes so it can be marketed as ceramic.

The initial pressing of a friction material is done under moderate temperature (~350°F) and very high pressure to get the phenolic binder to melt and solidify. That’s ‘B’ staging. The next thing is for the pads to go through a post bake cycle in a high temperature oven to further cure, which can be one of the most expensive periods of the production process. And here is where the OE and aftermarket tend to separate.

All new vehicle production friction materials have to pass Government tests. In the US they are known as FMVSS 105, 135, and 121, depending on the year of vehicle manufacture, vehicle GVW and brake actuation systems. And of course each vehicle manufacturer has it’s own internal standards a friction material supplier has to meet. But the important point about the OE production line criteria is green effectiveness – how do the brakes perform right out of the dealership lot, whether it is on a test drive or the consumer first taking his new car off the lot.

In the US there are no state or federal regulations about how well an aftermarket brake material has to perform. Not stopping distance, not fade resistance, and not structural integrity. Which gets back to the post bake cycle, the most expensive part of manufacturing, and why a relatively low production aftermarket material can cost less then an OE high volume production material, keeping in mind that high volume of any product means that production costs go down.

The ‘bedding in’ procedure that some manufactures request the consumer do is a quick high temperature flashing to convert the friction composite at the rubbing surface into a carbon composite, which will give that particular formulation a higher friction level. The need to do this is formulation dependent, and tends to be a requirement for materials that have a high fade resistance. If a formulation has low temperature components in it’s matrix, the 60 mph bedding is the worst thing you can do.

Within the brake and vehicle manufacture industry we call the initial process of developing fully braking effectiveness brake burnishing. And it refers to several aspects. One is the smoothing of both the friction material rubbing surface and the rotors (or drums) rubbing surface, the heat-treating of the friction material, and the transfer of a light coating of friction material to the rotors rubbing surface. Full braking effectiveness cannot be achieved unless all of these are achieved, and it dos not matter what type of friction material composite we are talking about.

Braking is a mixture of abrasive and coherent friction. Coherent friction is the higher frictional force, but it is only achieved within certain temperature parameters based on the friction composite and the establishment of like friction material transferred to the rotors surface, the transfer layer. And that can only be achieved when both the friction and rotor surfaces are very, very smooth, which can happen within 25 or as far out as 75 to 150 brake applications depending on the friction material’s abrasiveness, the rotor and pads surface roughness, and the weight of the vehicle.
 
Any luck on that squeal?

What did you find? did you also remember to grease the ears of the pads? Also check the brake pad arms for looseness (those little arms that tell you the pads are running low on material), I removed one of mine because it was too loose. It was not the problem though. Just needed grease behind shims. My squeal is still gone after prior post. check the wheel lug torque, make sure they are all equal. one more idea,,,,when you remove pads, look closely for metal particles in the pad itself, I bought ceramics before and found chunks of metal embedded in the material!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Black Friday: www.advanceautoparts.com 20% off online order and a coupon for $50 off a future $100 order. I order a new left and right calipers for $59 each ($47.20 after discount). Calipers arrived Tuesday. To my surprise, the mounting brackets and all hardware is included. Installed Wednesday. SQUEAK GONE!!!!! As I mentioned, it had nothing to do with the typical squeal of the pads on the discs. I never have heard a squeak come from a caliper before, but then again, before my LS, I never had a parking brake warning light come on due to a dying alternator either... Go figure...

Congratulations to joegr for correctly guessing the problem was the calipers on Nov 17.
 
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