Bush asked to explain UK war memo

barry2952

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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Eighty-nine Democratic members of the U.S. Congress last week sent President George W. Bush a letter asking for explanation of a secret British memo that said "intelligence and facts were being fixed" to support the Iraq war in mid-2002 -- well before the president brought the issue to Congress for approval.

The Times of London newspaper published the memo -- actually minutes of a high-level meeting on Iraq held July 23, 2002 -- on May 1.

British officials did not dispute the document's authenticity, and Michael Boyce, then Britain's Chief of Defense Staff, told the paper that Britain had not then made a decision to follow the United States to war, but it would have been "irresponsible" not to prepare for the possibility.

The White House has not yet responded to queries about the congressional letter, which was released on May 6.

The letter, initiated by Rep. John Conyers, ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, said the memo "raises troubling new questions regarding the legal justifications for the war as well as the integrity of your own administration. ...

"While various individuals have asserted this to be the case before, including Paul O'Neill, former U.S. Treasury Secretary, and Richard Clarke, a former National Security Council official, they have been previously dismissed by your administration," the letter said.

But, the letter said, when the document was leaked Prime Minister Tony Blair's spokesman called it "nothing new."

In addition to Blair, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, Defense Secretary Geoff Hoon, Attorney General Peter Goldsmith, MI6 chief Richard Dearlove and others attended the meeting.

A British official identified as "C" said that he had returned from a meeting in Washington and that "military action was now seen as inevitable" by U.S. officials.

"Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.

"The NSC had no patience with the U.N. route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."

The memo further discussed the military options under consideration by the United States, along with Britain's possible role.

It quoted Hoon as saying the United States had not finalized a timeline, but that it would likely begin "30 days before the U.S. congressional elections," culminating with the actual attack in January 2003.

"It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided," the memo said.

"But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran."

The British officials determined to push for an ultimatum for Saddam to allow U.N. weapons inspectors back into Iraq to "help with the legal justification for the use of force ... despite U.S. resistance."

Britain's attorney general, Peter Goldsmith, advised the group that "the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action" and two of three possible legal bases -- self-defense and humanitarian intervention -- could not be used.

The third was a U.N. Security Council resolution, which Goldsmith said "would be difficult."

Blair thought that "it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the U.N. inspectors."

"If the political context were right, people would support regime change," the memo said.

Later, the memo said, Blair would work to convince Bush that they should pursue the ultimatum with Saddam even though "many in the U.S. did not think it worth going down the ultimatum route."
 
Nothing to explain. Time to study up on your history...
Congressional Resolution Authorizing Force Against Iraq

Summary

H.J.Res. 114 authorizes the Use of Military Force Against Iraq. The resolution expresses support for the President's efforts to: (1) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions applicable to Iraq; and (2) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions.

The bill authorizes the President to use the U.S. armed forces to: (1) defend U.S. national security against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and (2) enforce all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq. It also directs the President, prior to or as soon as possible (but no later than 48 hours) after exercising such authority, to make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that: (1) reliance on further diplomatic or peaceful means alone will not achieve the above purposes; and (2) acting pursuant to this resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. Furthermore, the resolution declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization for use of the armed forces, consistent with requirements of the War Powers Resolution. Finally, the bill requires the President to report to Congress at least every 60 days on matters relevant to this resolution.

Background

In 1990 in response to Iraq’s war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq. After the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism.

The efforts of international weapons inspectors, United States intelligence agencies, and Iraqi defectors led to the discovery that Iraq had large stockpiles of chemical weapons and a large scale biological weapons program, and that Iraq had an advanced nuclear weapons development program that was much closer to producing a nuclear weapon than intelligence reporting had previously indicated. Iraq, in direct and flagrant violation of the ceasefire, attempted to thwart the efforts of weapons inspectors to identify and destroy Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction stockpiles and development capabilities, which finally resulted in the withdrawal of inspectors from Iraq on October 31, 1998. In 1998 Congress concluded that Iraq’s continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threatened vital United States interests and international peace and security, declared Iraq to be in ‘‘material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations’’ and urged the President ‘‘to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations’’ (P.L. 105–235). Iraq both poses a continuing threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region and remains in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations by, among other things, continuing to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability, actively seeking a nuclear weapons capability, and supporting and harboring terrorist organizations.

Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait. The current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people. Additionally, the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council. Furthermore, members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq. Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens.

The attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, underscored the gravity of the threat posed by the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist organizations. Iraq’s demonstrated capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction, the risk that the current Iraqi regime will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so, and the extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the United States and its citizens from such an attack, combine to justify action by the United States to defend itself. In addition, United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 authorizes the use of all necessary means to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 660 and subsequent relevant resolutions and to compel Iraq to cease certain activities that threaten international peace and security, including the development of weapons of mass destruction and refusal or obstruction of United Nations weapons inspections in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687, repression of its civilian population in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688, and threatening its neighbors or United Nations operations in Iraq in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 949. Congress in the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (P.L. 102–1) has authorized the President ‘‘to use United States Armed Forces pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) in order to achieve implementation of Security Council Resolutions 660, 661, 662, 664, 665, 666, 667, 669, 670, 674, and 677’’. In December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it ‘‘supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (P.L. 102–1),’’ that Iraq’s repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and ‘‘constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region,’’ and that Congress, ‘‘supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688’’.

The Iraq Liberation Act (P.L. 105–338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime. On September 12, 2002, President Bush committed the United States to ‘‘work with the United Nations Security Council to meet our common challenge’’ posed by Iraq and to ‘‘work for the necessary resolutions,’’ while also making clear that ‘‘the Security Council resolutions will be enforced, and the just demands of peace and security will be met, or action will be unavoidable’’. The United States is determined to prosecute the war on terrorism and Iraq’s ongoing support for international terrorist groups combined with its development of weapons of mass destruction in direct violation of its obligations under the 1991 cease-fire and other United Nations Security Council resolutions make clear that it is in the national security interests of the United States and in furtherance of the war on terrorism that all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions be enforced, including through the use of force if necessary.

Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations. The President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations. In addition, the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (P.L. 107–40). Finally, it is in the national security interests of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region.

Legislative History

H.J.Res. 114 was introduced by Speaker Hastert on October 2, 2002. It was reported from the International Relations Committee, as amended, by a vote of 31-11 on October 3, 2002. On October 10, 2002, the bill was agreed to in the House by vote of 296 - 133. On October 11, 2002, the bill was agreed to in the Senate by a vote of 77 - 23.

Amendments

Summary of the Amendments Made in Order Under the Rule (2 amendments):

Reps. Spratt, Moran (VA), Allen, Snyder, Price, Larson, Levin, Matsui, Clyburn offered an amendment in the nature of a substitute, debatable for 1 hour, on October 10, 2002; it failed by a vote of 155 - 270 (Roll no. 453). The amendment intended to authorize the use of U.S. armed forces to support any new U.N. Security Council resolution that mandates the elimination, by force if necessary, of all Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, long-range ballistic missiles, and the means of producing such weapons and missiles. Requested that the President should seek authorization from Congress to use the armed forces of the U.S. in the absence of a U.N. Security council resolution sufficient to eliminate by force if necessary, all Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, long-range ballistic missiles, and the means of producing such weapons and missiles. Provided expedited consideration for authorization in the latter case.

Rep. Lee offered an amendment in the nature of a substitute, debatable for 1 hour, on October 10, 2002; it failed by a vote of 72 - 355. The amendment intended to urge the U.S. to work through the U.N. to seek to resolve the matter of ensuring that Iraq is not developing weapons of mass destruction, through mechanisms such as the resumption of weapons inspections, negotiation, enquiry, mediation, regional arrangements and other means.
 
But now that we know that all of that was based on LIESs, what good is it? All you have there Bryan is a LIMP sword.

It quoted Hoon as saying the United States had not finalized a timeline, but that it would likely begin "30 days before the U.S. congressional elections," culminating with the actual attack in January 2003.

Interesting coincidence? Hit up congress when they are "weakest in their knees" to oppose going along w/ GW's wishes and the general feeling of the American population (that just happened to also be fueled by FEAR, LIES and DECEITS).
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
Interesting coincidence? Hit up congress when they are "weakest in their knees" to oppose going along w/ GW's wishes and the general feeling of the American population (that just happened to also be fueled by FEAR, LIES and DECEITS).
Timing is everything in politics. Just ask Bill Clinton. Whenever he needed a 'bump' in the polls, he'd lob a cruise missile or 2 at whoever was in the headlines that day.

As far as this, whether in politics or business, you maximize your position to get everyone behind it. Why wouldn't you?
 
Bryan,

Diverting attention away from GWB lies and failures is getting tiring. That's all you ever do. Try paying attention to what is happening now.

If indeed the memo is true, what will you think of GWB?
 
barry2952 said:
Bryan,

Diverting attention away from GWB lies and failures is getting tiring. That's all you ever do. Try paying attention to what is happening now.

If indeed the memo is true, what will you think of GWB?
Not diverting...just pointing out the hypocrisy that is an everyday event for liberals and Democrats.

I don't even care about the 'thin' information. He was in violation of the 1991 peace accord that he signed. We didn't need any further justification to take action.

When you set out to make a case, you throw all the info (intel) and evidence (proof) you can at it. Some will carry more weight than others when it comes to conviction. Same thing here.

I wasn't willing then and I'm certainly not willing now to turn the other cheek and hope that these guys don't come after us and kill several million of us. An event such as a nuclear detonation in any major city will send the WORLD into a tail spin we might not recover from. I have posted in the past the trillions of dollars that 9/11 cost. We let someone have a free crack at us and the game is over. I hope you have about 20 years of food and water stored away because you're gonna need it. There will be no global economy. It will be everybody for themselves. Just watch the panic.

So I will support any and all attempts made by the administration to 'build' the evidence that was needed to convince all the left-wing pansies out there that were busy protesting instead of getting behind what needed to be done.

Play this any way you want. The world is better off with Saddam gone. I could care less the path chosen to get there. The results are what counts. Saddam is history.
 
Listen...When I was deployed for both OPERATION NORTHERN WATCH and OPERATION SOUTHERN WATCH our planes were fired upon countless times. These acts alone were in direct violation of the UN cease fire between the U.S. and Iraq and are Legitimate Acts of War. Reason enough...

So preach on Bryan :Beer
 
Bryan,

I just want to clarify what you just said. Do I understand that it's OK for the President to bend the facts (lie) to the people he is elected to represent (not rule) even though he has taken an oath to operate under the laws of the land?

Sorry, I don't think that's what you teach your boys, is it? I actually respect the way you teach them but you talk out your a$$ sometimes. You might be even a bigger hypocrite than your buddy, GWB.
 
The funny thing is this has all happened before but since President Clinton was in office you didn't hear anything about it...

From the NATO website FAQ's of 2000

Q. Were NATO’s actions legally justified without a mandate from the UN Security Council ?

A. Some argue that NATO should not have acted against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in Kosovo without a specific United Nations Security Council mandate. The Allies were sensitive to the legal basis for their action. The Yugoslavs had already failed to comply with numerous demands from the Security Council under Chapter VII of the UN Charter and there was a major discussion in the North Atlantic Council, during which the Council took the following factors into consideration:

* the Yugoslav government’s non-compliance with earlier UN Security Council resolutions,

* the warnings from the UN Secretary General about the dangers of a humanitarian disaster in Kosovo,

* the risk of such a catastrophe in the light of Yugoslavia’s failure to seek a peaceful resolution of the crisis,
* the unlikelihood that a further UN Security Council resolution would be passed in the near future,

* and the threat to peace and security in the region.

At that point, the Council agreed that a sufficient legal basis existed for the Alliance to threaten and, if necessary, use force against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

Had NATO not acted, the Yugoslav regime would have continued its brutal repression of the Albanian population of Kosovo. Today those who survived the ethnic savagery and the ravages of the winter would still be living in refugee camps outside their country, and the region would have been condemned to continuing warfare and instability for years to come.


Ain't history a bitch...
 
You guy obviously don't get it. Just because Clinton lied it's not OK for GWB to lie. Got it? Geesh!
 
barry2952 said:
Do I understand that it's OK for the President to bend the facts (lie)

Do I even need to respond to that query?

Let's look at 3 key words in that sentence... bend, facts, lie. A bent fact is still a fact. It is just bent. Bend, twist, twirl, whatever, a fact is still a fact. I know that the left takes a fact and changes it to make it a lie. That is not how it is done on the Right. We may take a FACT and BEND it to make it a little easier to ram up your....you know.

Yep, I looked up the word LIE in the dictionary. It said: [LIE] to bend the facts. Hardy har har. Your argument is getting 'thin'er.
 
barry2952 said:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Eighty-nine Democratic members of the U.S. Congress last week sent President George W. Bush a letter asking for explanation of a secret British memo that said "intelligence and facts were being fixed" to support the Iraq war in mid-2002 -- well before the president brought the issue to Congress for approval."
Bush's answer to those 89 Democratic Congressman: "I have no idea."

Or he could say that it was just that guys opinion and that it wasn't true. That memo is no proof at all other than you had someone who doubted. But I'm sure it'll be fully investigated to appease the anti-Bush sentiment of the main-stream Democrat.
 
No, you don't get it. I don't care if he lied or not. He was in direct violation of the cease-fire and commited several acts of war against US armed forces whom were only there to enforce a ruling that the so called "voice of the world" (UN) had enacted. I wouldn't have given a crap if the President had said that Saddam was the cause of Cancer. We didn't need a reason. I spent years and several deployments wondering when the hell the rest of the country would wise up and realize that this murderous tyrant needed to go. I got my answer in Feb of 2001 when President Bush took office.

Now I have been there...seen the people...seen the dead...the living...the smiles...the cries...I've looked at the face of the enemy of freedom...heard the praises of those who desire that freedom so...I've watched the protests that would have been illegal just two years and one half years ago...I have watched the boy point at the American flag and give me a thumbs up...I have fired...and been fired upon...I have seen it...lived it... So don't tell me I don't get it.

Now Bryan on the other hand seems to realize that you have to get your hands dirty in order to plant the flower...
 
FreeFaller said:
No, you don't get it. I don't care if he lied or not. He was in direct violation of the cease-fire and commited several acts of war against US armed forces whom were only there to enforce a ruling that the so called "voice of the world" (UN) had enacted. I wouldn't have given a crap if the President had said that Saddam was the cause of Cancer. We didn't need a reason. I spent years and several deployments wondering when the hell the rest of the country would wise up and realize that this murderous tyrant needed to go. I got my answer in Feb of 2001 when President Bush took office.

Now I have been there...seen the people...seen the dead...the living...the smiles...the cries...I've looked at the face of the enemy of freedom...heard the praises of those who desire that freedom so...I've watched the protests that would have been illegal just two years and one half years ago...I have watched the boy point at the American flag and give me a thumbs up...I have fired...and been fired upon...I have seen it...lived it... So don't tell me I don't get it.

Now Bryan on the other hand seems to realize that you have to get your hands dirty in order to plant the flower...


!!!!!! AMEN BROTHER !!!!!!
 
FreeFaller said:
Now Bryan on the other hand seems to realize that you have to get your hands dirty in order to plant the flower...
(This looks like a good place for a joke.)

And Bryan can plant with enthusiasm!

mud_boy.jpg
 
To all the GW supporters, I pose this question.

You keep coming up with all this "other" so-called legal justifications for removing Saddam since the WMD excuse fizzled out. WHY then, didn't GW use THOSE "legal reasons" to justify this war in Iraq, instead of fabricating all the lies about WMDs??

If GW had been completely forthright about this situation, instead a weasel, I'd be singing a different tune. The ends does not justify the means.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
To all the GW supporters, I pose this question.

You keep coming up with all this "other" so-called legal justifications for removing Saddam since the WMD excuse fizzled out. WHY then, didn't GW use THOSE "legal reasons" to justify this war in Iraq, instead of fabricating all the lies about WMDs??

If GW had been completely forthright about this situation, instead a weasel, I'd be singing a different tune. The ends does not justify the means.

DUDE... Wake up... Bush didn't fabricate lies... His actions were based upon research done by US. Intelilgence Teams in both the CIA and FBI. Of course he based his actions on that data... I don't care who was president, they more than likely would have acted the same. BTW, Bush has fired the leaders of both those agencies! Appointed new leaders and demanded process reform to ensure the necessary checks and balances are in place to prevent such misleading information in the future. THAT IS CALLED IMPROVEMENT!

My advice to you is, Stop living in the past. Whats done is done!!! We've got a mission to complete and the liberation of IRAQ is well on its way. Establishment of a democratic state in that region will do more for the long term stability in that region than they have seen in the past 50 years!

The only reason people feel the need to come up with other reasons is because of the mud slingers who keep searching for a WMD... I say, look in IRAN... You'll find what your looking for!!! Until then, support our Troops and pray for their safe return. They've done a great job over there. Of course your going to still have roadside bombings and pockets of radical behavior, but it has certainly been reduced.
 
"All your dreams can come true, it can happen to you."
 
Bryan and Kbob are starting to sound like our ex-president, next thing I expect to hear is " that depends on your definition of ' is' . How conveniently they forget the testimony of numerous intel people who stated that Cheney pressured people at the CIA to give him the intel he wanted to justify the war. Although it's probably true we won't see impeachment proceedings go forward because the repugs have the majority in the house and senate, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen. What Shrub and Cheney have done has far greater consequences for this country than a BJ did received by Bubba. If the tables were turned and a dem had done this, there would be no end to the "righteous indignation" expressed by the repugs. Nothing but a bunch hypocrites! :bsflag:
 
Show me something with some teeth and I'll acknowledge it. Otherwise, all this is nothing but garbage and you know it is. So I'm sorry for you. You need PROOF. I'll say it again because you still don't get it, you need PROOF. If all this stuff is going on, where are the recordings? Because people that resent being "pressured" or whatever are eventually going to record things. Especially if it's as wide spread as you haters claim.

I understand you guys need to vent from time to time, but I think you need to put the pacifier back in. Nighty night.
 

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