BuSh family is full of a s s-clowns

JohnnyBz00LS

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Probe Sought in Terri Schiavo 911 Call
Florida Governor Questions Husband's Response to Collapse
By JACKIE HALLIFAX, AP

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (June 17) -- Gov. Jeb Bush said Friday that a prosecutor has agreed to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, citing an alleged time gap between when her husband found her and when he called 911.

Bush said his request for the probe was not meant to suggest wrongdoing by Michael Schiavo.

''It's a significant question that during this ordeal was never brought up,'' Bush told reporters.

Michael Schiavo's attorney has said his client called for help right away.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, the governor said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m. on Feb. 25, 1990, and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

''Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay,'' Bush wrote. ''In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome.''

McCabe was out of state Friday and couldn't immediately be reached for comment, but Bush said McCabe has agreed to his request.

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment from The Associated Press. But on Wednesday he said his client didn't wait to call for help and has conceded that he confuses dates and times.

Felos has said that if Michael Schiavo had not called 911 immediately, as Bush and others allege, Terri Schiavo would have died that day.


A Life and a Legal Battle




''There is no hour gap or other gap to the point Michael heard Terri fall and called 911,'' Felos said. ''We've seen the baseless allegations in this case fall by the wayside one by one ... That's what I would call it, a baseless claim to perpetuate a controversy that in fact doesn't exist.''

Terri Schiavo died March 31 from dehydration after her feeding tube was disconnected at her husband's request, despite years of efforts by her parents, Bush and others to keep her alive.

The governor's request followed the release Wednesday of an autopsy concluding that Terri Schiavo had been in a persistent vegetative state and revealed no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused before she collapsed.

It left unanswered the question of why Terri Schiavo's heart stopped, cutting oxygen off from her brain. The autopsy showed she suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain had shrunk to half the normal size for her age.

Bobby Schindler, Schiavo's brother, said Friday his family believes more questions were raised than answered by the autopsy report and that a new legal review is appropriate.

''Anything that can shed some light on the cause of Terri's collapse is going to be welcomed by our family,'' he said from Bloomington, Minn., where the family is speaking at an anti-abortion convention.

But the request was immediately criticized by some lawmakers.

''Enough is enough,'' said Democratic Sen. Ron Klein. ''I don't want to see it on TV any more, I don't want to hear politicians talk about it. Let her be at peace.''

Bush acknowledged in his letter that an investigation may be difficult.

''I understand that these events took place many years ago, and that you may not be able to collect all the relevant records and physical evidence. However, Mrs. Schiavo's family deserves to know anything that can be done to determine the cause and circumstances of her collapse 15 years ago,'' Bush wrote. ''The unanswered questions may be unanswerable, but the attempt should be made.''


06-17-05 13:11 EDT

Nice waste of taxpayer's dollars for more self-rightous grand-standing. Let the woman rest in peace for Christ's sake.
 
Hooray! After your a s s clown Mr. Schaivo beat her and put her in a coma (of course he is innocent until proven guilty), he called for help. I guess a guilty conscience will do that to a guy. You know, feel bad about wacking your wife around. No wonder he wanted to pull the cord. He didn't want her to come out of it only to tell the truth about what happened to her.

Now that we have heard both the extreme positions, anybody want to weigh in on a 'middle' position?
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
Nice waste of taxpayer's dollars for more self-rightous grand-standing. Let the woman rest in peace for Christ's sake.
What does Jesus have to do with it?
icon6.gif
 
they should have done a better investigation BEFORE they killed her.

but that is no reason to forget about it now.
 
Baby BuSh is following in his brother's footsteps. That ought to keep him from getting elected to higher office.

So the doctors that did the autopsy lied when they said ther was no sign of trauma? Doesn't Jeb-boy have anything better to do?

Jeb-baby is just stomping his feet like a four-year-old 'cause he didn't get his way.
 
barry2952 said:
Jeb-baby is just stomping his feet like a four-year-old 'cause he didn't get his way.

sounds a lot more like what you do!! :eek2:
pot calling the kettle black?...... again?
 
I believe there are medical reports that outlined the trauma that may have caused her predicament. I believe that her health as it related to her bulimia was a factor but I also believe it was reported that some of the injuries were consistent with trauma that could not be associated with her dietary behavioral patterns.

Sometimes the truth is well hidden.

Read this passage again.

"In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, the governor said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m. on Feb. 25, 1990, and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m."



If true, this would be consistent with someone covering their tracks. Why is it that the left wants a potential murderer to go scott-free? If a crime was committed, shouldn't that person pay? Shouldn't it at least be looked into? I know if I found my wife on the ground unconscious, the phone would be dialing within seconds. This whole thing just doesn't pass the smell test.
 
MonsterMark said:
Sometimes the truth is well hidden.

I have an interesting thought. Now they claimed that she was blind. Some think that blindness could be a result of her deterioration in the end from starvation. I don't know if this is possible, but here is what I don't understand. The videos of her following balloons around the room with her eyes.... indicates she wasn't blind. The pictures of her showed that her eyes were not hazy or milky, like peoples eyes if they are blind for a while -- her eyes were very clear and colorful.

Point is, some say that she was not completely brain dead, because she lit up when her parents came to visit, and she followed balloons around the room with her eyes. Others say this was impossible because she was blind.
If in fact she did go blind, I don't think she was blind for very long before they killed her. Just doesn't make sense, and I don't buy it.
 
barry2952 said:
You really are an :q:q:q:q:q:q:q, aren't you.


Barry - come on - No name calling - there is no need for it. - Be a grown up, yur smart enough to not need to start namecalling.

MonsterMark said:
Hooray! After your a s s clown Mr. Schaivo beat her and put her in a coma (of course he is innocent until proven guilty), he called for help. I guess a guilty conscience will do that to a guy. You know, feel bad about wacking your wife around. No wonder he wanted to pull the cord. He didn't want her to come out of it only to tell the truth about what happened to her.

Now that we have heard both the extreme positions, anybody want to weigh in on a 'middle' position?

Uh - Autopsy says different. Much different. It says there is no evidence of ANY abuse, before or after the time her heart stopped, and also says her condition was untreatable, and she had no chance of recovery.

I find it real unsettling that the republicans cant break down and admit that they have been proven wrong. Not only can they not admit it, but they want to publicize the issue even more by calling the autopsy a sham. they had no business getting into this issue n the first place.

Let me point out, I have been quiet on this issue. But you you know, people need to get their head out of their ass. I've had to make the decision to pull the plug twice in the last 12 months. It was anything BUT and easy decision, and the last thing I needed was to be second guessed after the fact. I sit here offended that you who know ZERO about the medicine involved seek to contribute to the perpetuation of the politicizing of this travesty. And before you say it, the travesty is that republicans have tried to politicize this.

The autopsy said she wasnt beaten or abused, and said she had no hope of recovery. She was a vegetable, and was going to stay that way. Let the woman go in peace. Let her husband live in peace. Trust me, I know from experience, you question yourself over and over and over. He doesnt need you questioning him too.
 
Joeychgo said:
Barry - come on - No name calling - there is no need for it. - Be a grown up, yur smart enough to not need to start namecalling.



Uh - Autopsy says different. Much different. It says there is no evidence of ANY abuse, before or after the time her heart stopped, and also says her condition was untreatable, and she had no chance of recovery.

I find it real unsettling that the republicans cant break down and admit that they have been proven wrong. Not only can they not admit it, but they want to publicize the issue even more by calling the autopsy a sham. they had no business getting into this issue n the first place.

Let me point out, I have been quiet on this issue. But you you know, people need to get their head out of their ass. I've had to make the decision to pull the plug twice in the last 12 months. It was anything BUT and easy decision, and the last thing I needed was to be second guessed after the fact. I sit here offended that you who know ZERO about the medicine involved seek to contribute to the perpetuation of the politicizing of this travesty. And before you say it, the travesty is that republicans have tried to politicize this.

The autopsy said she wasnt beaten or abused, and said she had no hope of recovery. She was a vegetable, and was going to stay that way. Let the woman go in peace. Let her husband live in peace. Trust me, I know from experience, you question yourself over and over and over. He doesnt need you questioning him too.

Joey, you're the only one that knows what I wrote. I left it to his imagination.
 
Joeychgo said:
The autopsy said she wasnt beaten or abused, and said she had no hope of recovery. She was a vegetable, and was going to stay that way. Let the woman go in peace. Let her husband live in peace. Trust me, I know from experience, you question yourself over and over and over. He doesnt need you questioning him too.

Joey, I know what you went thru. I am sorry for your losses. My wife works in an ICU and sees death on a daily basis. The time to have pulled the plug was 4-6 months max, not 15 years. Period.
**********************************************************
Read this...


In February of 1990 at the age of 26, Terri Schiavo collapsed at home and oxygen was cut off to her brain for several minutes. The cause of the collapse is disputed. Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband, blames a cardiac arrest induced by a potassium imbalance associated with bulimia. The Schindlers suspect he tried to strangle her, based on court testimony by a neurologist that Terri had suffered a neck injury when she was admitted to the hospital. No one was aware Terri Schiavo had an eating disorder. The Schindlers told WND that Terri was very conscious of her weight because she had been heavy in high school and her husband put pressure on her to stay thin, reportedly making comments like "If you ever get that fat again, I'll divorce you."
**********************************************************
That last line sure sounds like something an a-hole husband would say, doesn't it? Especially when your wife looks like this.

I smell something and it ain't in my underwear.....

This guy may very well have bitch-slapped and choked his wife to death. Then he freaked out when she stopped breathing and it took him 40-70 minutes to finally call it in. All you lefties want to let a potential murderer walk. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. Those of us on the right always seek to do what is right, no matter what the cost is. If we lose some elections over this, so be it. I want a full inquiry. It was well known that they were having marital problems before her sudden 'accident'. This case is a perfect example of the divide between the left and the right in this country. It is there for all to see. If Jeb gets to pull the lever and we all get to watch this guy sizzle, I'll be saying a prayer and toasting Terry in heaven.

Again, he may be innocent, but my gut tells me this guy killed his wife and like Robert Blake, will get away with it.



Joeychgo said:
"Uh - Autopsy says different. Much different. It says there is no evidence of ANY abuse, before or after the time her heart stopped..."
And I really like this argument... 15 years after the fact. Do you really think a choking bruise would show up 15 years later? Get real! And I am sure the autopsy paid special attention to that potential injury. I am sure they dissected her neck to see what trauma there was. I wrestled. I had brothers. I've been in fights. I've been choked dozens of times. Do you think my autopsy will reveal all these episodes? Laughable.

It should be 'looked' into now, but it really should have been 'looked' into 15 years ago when it happened.

terri1.jpeg
 
Joeychgo said:
Uh - Autopsy says different. Much different. It says there is no evidence of ANY abuse, before or after the time her heart stopped, and also says her condition was untreatable, and she had no chance of recovery.

Don't you know Joey the Doctor doing the Autopsy was one of those Liberal Doctors.

They lie and can't be trusted.

Wait looking for that bad Liberal word.
 
Here's more for you to chew on Rich. Testimony from the trials.



The Schindlers question why Michael Schiavo only belatedly recalled his wife's "casual statements" allegedly refusing life support. Specifically, they point out he changed his story after winning more than $1.5 million dollars in a medical-malpractice lawsuit against Terri's physicians who, Schiavo successfully argued, should have treated her potassium imbalance before it resulted in cardiac arrest. As WND reported, Michael Schiavo filed a petition in May 1998 to disconnect his wife's feeding tube reportedly to carry out her wishes.

During the malpractice-suit trial nearly six years earlier in November 1992, Michael Schiavo made no mention of his wife's alleged wish to die and conversely pleaded for the opportunity to personally take care of his wife at home for the rest of his life. He sought $20 million to cover the cost of her future medical and neurological care, estimating her life expectancy was 50 years.

Schiavo told the jury he was studying nursing because he wanted "to learn more how to take care of Terri." According to a transcript of his testimony, Michael Schiavo was asked how he felt about being married to Terri, given her condition. "I feel wonderful. She's my life and I wouldn't trade her for the world," he replied. "I believe in my wedding vows. ... I believe in the vows I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poor. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that."
***********************************************************
Ya, "I'm going to do that" as long as you show me the money ~ it appears.

Once again, more than meets the eye. Looks like the guy wanted $400,000 a year for 50 years so he would be all set. Hummm. Can't wait to hear what the lefties have to say. I don't care what the autopsy said. Choking would not be revealed 15 years later in ANY autopsy.

What's wrong? Afraid we might find out this guy is not who he says and supposedly acts to be? Be careful. There are always 2 sides to every story, but only one side contains the truth.

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!
 
Still with me? Good. Here's some more.

The girlfriend must be some wacko righty Christian fanatic, eh/
*********************************************************


"A woman who dated Michael Schiavo for a year between 1992 and 1993 claims to have insight into Schiavo's apparent flip-flop on Terri's wishes.

Cindy Shook gave a deposition to the Schindlers in April 2001, in which she stated that when she once asked Michael Schiavo about treatment for Terri he responded, "How the hell should I know?We never spoke about this. My God, I was only 25 years old. How the hell should I know? We were young. We never spoke of this." Based on this purported evidence that Schiavo lied about Terri's wishes, Civil Court Judge Frank Quesada ordered doctors to reinsert Terri's feeding tube, three days into her first court-ordered starvation."

**********************************************************
Gee, my wife and I didn't have this right to die discussion until I was in my 40's, with this story front and center, so it makes perfect sense to me that this guy knew implicitly his wife's wishes to die because he was so much more mature at the age of 25 and they sat down and had these discussions.. Can you say...liar? I think he is one.
 
From a Larry King interview with Michael Schaivo...



"If I strangled her to the point of unconsciousness, her trachea would have been crushed," he said, adding that no physician made notations regarding "marks around her neck," which he said would have been there if the allegation was true.

Still, two starkly different versions of the events immediately following Terri's collapse remain.

According to Schiavo, he heard a "thud" in the hall at 4:30 a.m. and got out of bed to find his wife lying face down on the floor. Schiavo said he rolled her over and saw she was "lifeless" and called 911.

"If Michael rolled her over, then he rolled her back," Bobby Schindler told WorldNetDaily. "He has also stated [in other interviews] that when I showed up he was cradling her in his arms. Now he's changing his story?"

According to Schindler's account, Schiavo called Bob Schindler Sr. first, who then alerted Bobby because he lived in the same apartment complex as his sister. Then, prompted to do so by Bob Schindler, Schiavo called 911. Bobby Schindler said when he arrived on the scene, Terri was face down with her arms underneath her and her hands up by her neck.

"It's etched in my mind," said Schindler, adding that he heard a "gurgling or snoring sound" coming from Terri. Schiavo, in turn, accuses Bobby Schindler of lying. But when challenged by a caller to Larry King's show whether he was willing to take a lie detector test, Schiavo responded, "I'll refrain from answering that right now."
***********************************************************

"If I strangled her to the point of unconsciousness, her trachea would have been crushed"...Sorry Michael. I see guys in ultimate fighting contests go unconscious in seconds and none of them have crushed trachea. Nice try. Try again. I could make you pass out by applying very little pressure to your coratid arteries on the sides of your neck, leading to your brain. That's how wrestlers do it.

Getting deeper and deeper............
 
Dig deeper folks. There are dozens of incidents where Michael Schaivo refused to allow people to care for his wife. He injected sugar into her to drive her into a diabetic state, kept the curtains drawn and would not let her outside for years. Refused to allow anybody to feed her ice or water. Kept the room at 64 degrees to try to induce pneumonia. The list goes on and on.

This case is not what it appears to be. Keep digging. heck, he even took half the money earmarked for her care and paid over $400,000 of it to his atorneys. This rat hole goes very deep indeed.
 
MonsterMark said:
Dig deeper folks.

Brother, I highly appreciate your efforts to get the FACTS straight.

Why did he wait an hour, or whatever, to call for help?

Signs of trauma in an autopsy are relevant when death occurred within hours, or days, of death. Not years after.

I have had another post removed, while you were gone, in a recent discussion, so I am not going to bother here any further.
 
The problem is that this case became a much bigger issue, on many levels, than just Terri's health and quality of life.

This case was not only about what terri may or may not have wanted... it was about which family member deserves the right to make decisions on her behalf. It was so obvious in this case that her parents were much more involved and interested in terri's care, so the courts should have given them power of attorney.

Also this case was about family rights to make decisions about their children without the courts stepping in and taking those rights. Although the courts did seek to give rights to either the parents or the husband, the courts have become increasingly involved in family welfare, over-riding decisions that should be made by the family alone (namely parents).

Also, this case was about state vs federal rights; an issue that has been controversial almost since the conception of our constitution, which explicitly states that unless the constitution gives the federal courts the right to make decisions on issues outlined in the constitution, the decisions falls to the state by default.

Also, this case is about the power of the federal judicial system, which lately has been stepping out of bounds by mis-interperating the constitution or even re-writing the constitution -- basing many decisions on other countries that have lost moral objectivity long ago.

Finally, this case was about euthanasia. uggghhh! it's never an easy decision. If you look at every country that has allowed euthanasia... it is a very ugly picture where the govt. is deciding whose lives are worth living and whose are not. Once a govt. gets to decide that some patients lives are not quality enough to live, they kill sick patients to save revenue. That should never be a deciding factor when faced with the question, "is this person's life worth living? well how much money do we have? not enough? well then, no this person's life is not worth living, in my opinion, so lets pull the plug!" The first ones who will suffer from the acceptance and practice of euthanasia will be the eldery in massive numbers. mark my words. We already do a shabby job at taking care of our elders, and soon we will be offing them in droves. Once we become numb to the euthanasia issue and as a society starts deciding who's lives are worth living, we will be adopting other practices like eugenics. The US started the practice of eugenics in the 20s but it was Hitler who loved the idea and ran with it.

I know it sounds like a stretch, but it's just a matter of time and de-sensitization before it gets that way. Society has been on the hard decline for a while now, and there is no reason why it won't continue gross monstrocities. This is why conservatives are still concerned. We look further down the road to the implications of such decisions, and we don't want to simply sweep these issues under the carpet. This is why Terri Schiavo was and still is in the spotlight.
 
Since the Nazi holocaust, the Netherlands has strongly opposed euthanasia as an answer to their social problems. To this day, euthanasia is still illegal in the Netherlands, but, in 1984, euthanasia was decriminalized to protect Dutch physicians from prosecution. Of the 130,000 total human deaths in the Netherlands during 1990, 20,000 were from some form of euthanasia. 6,000 were killed without their consent. Dutch polls show that the acceptance of euthanasia increases every year and is popularized by their media as an act of human freedom. A Matter of Life and Death is a popular television program, sponsored by the Dutch Ministry of Health, where the audience is presented with two contestants that have life threatening illnesses but only one will receive treatment. The audience is presented with the facts and then votes for who will receive the treatment. The contestants are real patients with serious illnesses, but the audience does not in reality make the final decision. They do, however, respond with enthusiasm to exercise their judgment and “power of execution”. The purpose of the show, according to the Dutch Ministry of Health, is to “instill into the mind of the public that not all conditions can be given the same consideration, and that due to enormous health care costs, choices must be made." The Dutch’s popular opinion implies that this freedom is not meant for everyone and that society has a right to cut short a persons life when it is deemed unworthy such as the elderly, the handicapped, and people without families. A poll of the elderly showed that while half of those living independently favored euthanasia, almost all of those living in nursing homes opposed it. More than half of those living in institutions feared that they would be killed without giving permission. The Dutch have clearly begun to accept involuntary assisted euthanasia as an answer to their social problems.
 
Over 95 percent of those who commit suicide have the psychiatric illness of severe clinical depression which is treatable. Depression occurs more frequently in the elderly, starting at the age of 50, and treatment is usually more effective for the elderly. Like other suicidal patients, those who desire euthanasia because of a serious medical illness usually suffer from severe clinical depression and can be treated as well. Although they may be suffering from pain and lack of family support, their depression is the underlying cause of their wish for death. The depressed, especially the elderly, will test their worth by saying things to their family such as “I wish I was dead” or “I’m such a burden, you would be better off without me.” They are seeking reassurance that they are wanted but are accepting the idea of suicide. Almost all of the terminally ill and suicidal patients who were able to overcome their depression later opposed euthanasia regardless of their continued pain and suffering from their terminal illness. The elderly who are terminally ill feel the pressure of the burden they pose to their families and are more apt to accept suicide if it is presented to them by their physician as an alternative that will end ‘everyone’s’ suffering. The elderly are therefore at the greatest risk. Once we decide to get rid of our elderly, it would be easy to decide to get rid of those that are healthy but mentally handicapped or nuisances to society.

Most dying patient’s suffering can be controlled but usually is not because most doctors are under-trained in end-of-life care. There is a very viable solution to the fear of dying a prolonged painful death. The solution is not assisted suicide, but it is hospice care. Increasing the availability of hospice care would end the movement to legalize assisted suicide because it would assure the patient that they will receive proper attention and be well taken care of throughout the dying process. Once the pain and symptoms of an illness are under control, people rarely talk about taking their own lives. Hospice care provides a means to control pain and surrounds patients with emotional and spiritual support which helps free patients from the afflictions of their illness so they can truly live until they die.
 
I think the plug should have pulled. A long time ago.

For me, the problem boils down to the issue of Persistent Vegetative State or PVS. When Mr. Schaivo found out he needed to prove she was in PVS in order to pull the tube, he denied all care and treatment for her in an attempt to put her in that state. Thus he denied allowing her to drink water on her own, etc. etc. as outlined previously. That is what bothers me about this whole thing. He didn't get the gravy train money and when that dried up, he tired of her and changed his tune to 'rid' himself of her. He should have simply walked away at that point and let the parents take over.

But once again, because this issue bogged on for years, it really became too late to pull the tube. imho.

I think he struggled with her and in her weakened condition from her ailment, her body could not take the stress of the struggle and she was either choked or had a heart attack. This occured at 4:30 in the morning remember. Just seems a weird time for that to have occured on its own.
 
To borrow a worn-out phrase: You right-winged whackos lost this one, get over it.

:bow:

Her neck injuries were the result of her fall when she collapsed, NOT from any alleged "choking" by her husband.

Mr. Shaivo's claim to Terri's wish to NOT be kept alive under those circumstances were substantiated by testimony by TWO other indviduals, ONE OF WHICH was Terri's BEST FRIEND.

Mr. Shaivo's initial desire to obtain $$ from the lawsuit settlement was to pursue treatment that, at the time, seemed promising. They had YET to try everything possible to help her recover. To insinuate that he SHOULD HAVE given up on her THEN while condemning him on "giving up on her" NOW is, quite typically of RWWs, HYPOCRITICAL.

Attempting to confuse Terri's situation with the euthinasia issue, is again typically of RWWs, hypocritical. The conservative grand-standers (Jeb and GW Bush, DeLay, Frist, et al) only attempted to undermine the decision of Terry's FAMILY (i.e., her HUSBAND, NOT her parents) by bringing that decision to the court and NOT leaving that decision to the FAMILY. So much for the conservative's consistancy on their stance on the "sanctity of marriage".
 

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