My completely unscientific and unproven theory is that when cars get this old, if you find one that seems really nice, it's probably one of the "good" ones. Reliability reputations are built on failure rates, and even the worst don't have 100% failure rates. Some of them are bound to be on the + side of the curve.
Buying a Lincoln LS....looking for advice
- Thread starter LQ1906
- Start date
I agree, I do feel thus far that I have bought one well maintained, thanks to what Car Fax reports. Didn't know until recently that Car Fax reports the maintenance/work performed if/when the dealers input that info. The CarFax shows that the LS that I bought was all serviced at Ford dealerships until now. So seeing that made me feel alot better. Plus when I called the dealership I'm assuming a older woman had it because they said "she" when talking about the previous owner. I believe when the trans starting shifting hard she said forget about it and traded it in. It's very clean on the inside and tires look to be fairly new/recent. Just have to get those common "issues" the LS has taken care of and hopefully that will satisfy my baby for at least a little while until the next issue comes up...lol
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm sure that when she asked them to check it out they gave her a horror story about how many $thousands it might cost to fix and convinced her to trade it for another car that they just happened to have a great deal on.
From what Joe Rizza Ford told me was that she bought the car in late last year for hard shifting. They charged her $255 for updating the software and sent her on her way. Apparently it never fixed the problem or the problem came back. She then brought the car in for service for a dead battery again after just buying one two years ago. They replaced the battery under warranty this year in July. She traded it right after that I assume. The report does show the transmission was flushed 07/11 with 62,848. Although 5 years ago....mileage from then until now is about 20,000 since it has 81,000
grizzlyls
Dedicated LVC Member
Yea, the dealer tried to scam me with the software update thing too. I imagine it could change some things, but doubt it would ever be correct these issues. Glad my mechanic hit it on the nose and it was internals. Maybe joe can explain the 'benefit' of a software update?
I am wondering, has anyone tracked the PCM problem/fix? Since being here it seems its a good amount of the 2003/2004 years. Of course 1 year is small sampling, and maybe Gen 1 like mine are going to the scrap heep more than being fixed. I sure see alot in the yards with no real damage on the bodies.
I am wondering, has anyone tracked the PCM problem/fix? Since being here it seems its a good amount of the 2003/2004 years. Of course 1 year is small sampling, and maybe Gen 1 like mine are going to the scrap heep more than being fixed. I sure see alot in the yards with no real damage on the bodies.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Software updates can make it work a little better, but they won't help with aging and failing parts. You buy it new and you don't like the way it shifts from day one, then an update may improve things for you. On the other hand, if it was working okay but now has a problem - an update is very unlikely to resolve that. If you have a mechanical or electrical problem, then the only real solution is to identify that problem and repair it.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Quote LQ:
"From what Joe Rizza Ford told me was that she bought the car in late last year for hard shifting. They charged her $255 for updating the software and sent her on her way. Apparently it never fixed the problem or the problem came back."
There is a revised valve body or separator plate for the LS tranny for certain model years. My parts manager buddy is very good at letting me know when a part has been modified/superceded. As I have said in other threads... a manufacturer keeps track of issues that are reported through dealerships,,, and modify parts to remedy issues. THAT'S why it is better to buy factory parts. Even though after market parts may say that they are built to OEM specs... it may be OEM specs that had the original issue.
"From what Joe Rizza Ford told me was that she bought the car in late last year for hard shifting. They charged her $255 for updating the software and sent her on her way. Apparently it never fixed the problem or the problem came back."
There is a revised valve body or separator plate for the LS tranny for certain model years. My parts manager buddy is very good at letting me know when a part has been modified/superceded. As I have said in other threads... a manufacturer keeps track of issues that are reported through dealerships,,, and modify parts to remedy issues. THAT'S why it is better to buy factory parts. Even though after market parts may say that they are built to OEM specs... it may be OEM specs that had the original issue.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Something to keep in mind. The aftermarket doesn't get specs on factory parts until the OEM releases ther original specs/blueprints. Thus the reason there are now finally aftermarket rear lower control arms for the Gen 1... but not the gen 2 LS. Thus the reason the are no more shocks available from Ford,,, and why some of us are turning to Jaguar parts... becauser the aftermarket doesn't have the specs/blueprints for them.
DANKcustoms
New LVC Member
Is that going to be fixed anytime soon?
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04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
It will be AFTER Ford/Lemforder/Jaguar exhausts their parts supply. When that is... is anybodys guess. It's only been recently that certain gen 1 parts are being made available through aftermarket suppliers.
At this point,,, the LS has become a "pay to play" vehicle... The only way anything would be "fixed"... is if the LS was still in production. That's the only way Ford could justify still making parts for the LS. Since that is NOT going to happen... an LS owner only has a few options, (to put it bluntly)!!!
1 - Wait and hope that some quality aftermarket supplier starts making parts for the LS
2 - Figure out what fits... and do your own SAFE modifications
3 - Convert it to a Jaguar,,, go into denial,,, and convince yourself it is still a Lincoln
4 - Lock your LS in the garage and use it only as a Sunday driver once a month.... and insure it for 10 times what it is worth
5 - Put it in a time capsule... and hope it sells for 10 times more than what you paid for it when you sell it at the Kruse International auction
6 - Drive it into the ground,,, bury it,,, and say goodbye
7 - Modify the h#ll out of it so that no one knows what it is,,, throw a Chevy 350 in it... and beat the pants off of some Honda riceburners.
8 - Burn it to the ground now,,, take the insurance money and run before the insurance company realizes they made a mistake.
9 - Enter it into a demolition derby,,, and hope you get the grand prize;
10 - Drive it like you stole it,,, sell it to your worst enemy... and laugh at their greif when they have to fix it
Anybody want to add an 11, 12, 13... or more. I can think of a few,,, but I still like my LS.
ooohh,,, I just thought of 11...
Pay 40 grand and pretend your a rich man... then beg the boneyard to give you $5000 for it when it needs $5000 in parts.
12 - Scrap the LS for the aluminum,,, and drink the money away in your remorse for chucking the one car you loved more than your "significant other".
13 - Drive your LS into the ground,,, walk away... and face the fact that the relationship is over.
I think I pretty much covered all of the bases. Don't get me wrong. I still love my LS. They are actually a pretty reliable vehicle with a bit of preventative maintenace... or an expensive toy for those who wish to turn them into a racecar,,, which is racecar spelled backwards.
At this point,,, the LS has become a "pay to play" vehicle... The only way anything would be "fixed"... is if the LS was still in production. That's the only way Ford could justify still making parts for the LS. Since that is NOT going to happen... an LS owner only has a few options, (to put it bluntly)!!!
1 - Wait and hope that some quality aftermarket supplier starts making parts for the LS
2 - Figure out what fits... and do your own SAFE modifications
3 - Convert it to a Jaguar,,, go into denial,,, and convince yourself it is still a Lincoln
4 - Lock your LS in the garage and use it only as a Sunday driver once a month.... and insure it for 10 times what it is worth
5 - Put it in a time capsule... and hope it sells for 10 times more than what you paid for it when you sell it at the Kruse International auction
6 - Drive it into the ground,,, bury it,,, and say goodbye
7 - Modify the h#ll out of it so that no one knows what it is,,, throw a Chevy 350 in it... and beat the pants off of some Honda riceburners.
8 - Burn it to the ground now,,, take the insurance money and run before the insurance company realizes they made a mistake.
9 - Enter it into a demolition derby,,, and hope you get the grand prize;
10 - Drive it like you stole it,,, sell it to your worst enemy... and laugh at their greif when they have to fix it
Anybody want to add an 11, 12, 13... or more. I can think of a few,,, but I still like my LS.
ooohh,,, I just thought of 11...
Pay 40 grand and pretend your a rich man... then beg the boneyard to give you $5000 for it when it needs $5000 in parts.
12 - Scrap the LS for the aluminum,,, and drink the money away in your remorse for chucking the one car you loved more than your "significant other".
13 - Drive your LS into the ground,,, walk away... and face the fact that the relationship is over.
I think I pretty much covered all of the bases. Don't get me wrong. I still love my LS. They are actually a pretty reliable vehicle with a bit of preventative maintenace... or an expensive toy for those who wish to turn them into a racecar,,, which is racecar spelled backwards.
DANKcustoms
New LVC Member
Lmao, are there proven engine swaps that aren't too difficult as far as engine mounts etc?
Honestly it's the Everything but the engine that gets me excited about the LS, I just remember it feeling like people would gawk at my car, which is why spending another 6-10k with a engine swap that'll last me a lifetime would be worth it.
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Honestly it's the Everything but the engine that gets me excited about the LS, I just remember it feeling like people would gawk at my car, which is why spending another 6-10k with a engine swap that'll last me a lifetime would be worth it.
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DANKcustoms
New LVC Member
Of course lmao
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joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
DANKcustoms
New LVC Member
I hopped on someone else's thread simply so I didn't create a new one. My mistake. Keep my mouth shut from here massa.
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joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Not worried about that. I just meant to search for the threads on engine swaps to get an understanding about why all the electronics in the car are so tightly tied to the PCM that swapping engines is very impractical.
grizzlyls
Dedicated LVC Member
Dank, the closest suggestion anyone has had from the threads is is a Supercharged Jag 4.0 using Lincoln LS sensors. Honestly if money didnt matter I would try this since I love superchargers. If your serious good luck - I think you would be the first.
But for why I came here again, guys, can we trust the Ford Parts website to lead us to the right 'stage' part? I mean, for example a few pieces I have bought use a different number in first position - original seems to be Xw4z dash and then a number comes around like 2w4z. I found this out on my crankshaft gear, could get the 2w4z for 23$ but if I went the other way needed TWO for 150 ish a piece, and no originals, had to go jag! Finally got a Ford tech to admit I could use the 2w4z.
When I have googled, I always check for alternative numbers like this and so far have been successful - minding of course I have to watch the gen 1 v gen 2 differences.
But for why I came here again, guys, can we trust the Ford Parts website to lead us to the right 'stage' part? I mean, for example a few pieces I have bought use a different number in first position - original seems to be Xw4z dash and then a number comes around like 2w4z. I found this out on my crankshaft gear, could get the 2w4z for 23$ but if I went the other way needed TWO for 150 ish a piece, and no originals, had to go jag! Finally got a Ford tech to admit I could use the 2w4z.
When I have googled, I always check for alternative numbers like this and so far have been successful - minding of course I have to watch the gen 1 v gen 2 differences.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Quote Joe:
"Do you want the rest of the car to still work? (transmission, AC, heat, ABS, AdvanceTrac, instruments, E-brake, ...) "
Granted it was a gen 1,,, but I thought the guy that did the older 5.0 conversion from an explorer.... got everything worked out with the electronics???
"Do you want the rest of the car to still work? (transmission, AC, heat, ABS, AdvanceTrac, instruments, E-brake, ...) "
Granted it was a gen 1,,, but I thought the guy that did the older 5.0 conversion from an explorer.... got everything worked out with the electronics???
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
That's not what I recall. Is this the one where the guy replaced all the instruments with aftermarket gauges, had no ABS, and had toggle switches for the AC (you had three choices no heating/cooling, full cooling, or full heating)?
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Honestly Joe... I'm not sure. All I remember is that the guy got the the cluster working properly,,, and it was showing him getting 24mpg while putting around town.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Quote Grizz:
"Dank, the closest suggestion anyone has had from the threads is is a Supercharged Jag 4.0 using Lincoln LS sensors. Honestly if money didnt matter I would try this since I love superchargers. If your serious good luck - I think you would be the first."
IIRC,
There were 1 or 2 people a few years back that were trying to do the 4.0 in an LS,,, but the reverse mount intake put the TB into the firewall. Don't remember if either of these were SC'd.
My idea in another thread was to get an all aluminum 4.6 DOHC from a similar year Aviator... mate it to a 5r55? from a Mustang,,, dummy plug or delete the VVT LS sensors to full advance,,, and the try to get the LS to think it was an Aviator hybrid LS. The whole trick is to get the multiple computers to play nice. Personally,,, I think that is possible... but it would take a major feat in figuring out the wiring to make both systems compatible. At least i am thinking along the lines of similar vehicle make and design,,, even with considering the differences in weight and braking/power bias.
There are links on this site where Ford factory stuffed a 4.6 in the LS for a one day race. Yes is overheated,,, but that was due to to poor planning in a rush to get it race ready.
My point is... if Ford/Lincoln can figure out how to make the electronics play nice,,, then it is possible. They may have built a special box with a bunch of resistors to fool certain systems,,, but it IS possible.
"Dank, the closest suggestion anyone has had from the threads is is a Supercharged Jag 4.0 using Lincoln LS sensors. Honestly if money didnt matter I would try this since I love superchargers. If your serious good luck - I think you would be the first."
IIRC,
There were 1 or 2 people a few years back that were trying to do the 4.0 in an LS,,, but the reverse mount intake put the TB into the firewall. Don't remember if either of these were SC'd.
My idea in another thread was to get an all aluminum 4.6 DOHC from a similar year Aviator... mate it to a 5r55? from a Mustang,,, dummy plug or delete the VVT LS sensors to full advance,,, and the try to get the LS to think it was an Aviator hybrid LS. The whole trick is to get the multiple computers to play nice. Personally,,, I think that is possible... but it would take a major feat in figuring out the wiring to make both systems compatible. At least i am thinking along the lines of similar vehicle make and design,,, even with considering the differences in weight and braking/power bias.
There are links on this site where Ford factory stuffed a 4.6 in the LS for a one day race. Yes is overheated,,, but that was due to to poor planning in a rush to get it race ready.
My point is... if Ford/Lincoln can figure out how to make the electronics play nice,,, then it is possible. They may have built a special box with a bunch of resistors to fool certain systems,,, but it IS possible.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Quote myself:
"My point is... if Ford/Lincoln can figure out how to make the electronics play nice,,, then it is possible. They may have built a special box with a bunch of resistors to fool certain systems,,, but it IS possible. "
Personally... I think Ford used mostly stock computer components,,, and the engineers knew which pins to change in the wiring harnesses. However,,, I don't think a "lay" person could get this information without knowing someone directly related to the project. So that means some smart MF would have to spend a few months analyzing how to modify the sstems on the LS to be compatible with the 4.6... unless they could directly talk to someone on the project.
"My point is... if Ford/Lincoln can figure out how to make the electronics play nice,,, then it is possible. They may have built a special box with a bunch of resistors to fool certain systems,,, but it IS possible. "
Personally... I think Ford used mostly stock computer components,,, and the engineers knew which pins to change in the wiring harnesses. However,,, I don't think a "lay" person could get this information without knowing someone directly related to the project. So that means some smart MF would have to spend a few months analyzing how to modify the sstems on the LS to be compatible with the 4.6... unless they could directly talk to someone on the project.
Actually it wasn't a one day race. It was called One Lap of America and it was a run-what-you-brung race; I forget how many races as it was about 3ish years ago. The cars were driven to different race tracks, raced then driven on to the next venue. The overheat was never cured, even with a bigger radiator and holes in the hood (the car didn't have to look pretty!). They also never got the electronics to play with each other.
I still think the person that suggested the blown 4.X from the S-Type using the LS sensors is the way to go. The LS is much more Jaguar than anything Ford. In fact my mechanic calls my LS a Jaguar!