Caveat emptor

H

htiek123

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Well On Thursday 7/17, I got my 2005 LS serviced for the first time since I got it in May. It was making a clunking noise in the front suspension and he ran the codes. He told me it needed a stabilizer bar and it needed all four new O2 sensors. I knew all about the O2 sensor codes. He told me it would be 286.00 to replace the bar. I said OK. So I look it up on Ebay and the part is $26.00 for the pair, He told me we would have to talk about the O2 sensors when I pick up the Car. He charged me 146.00 for that 26.00 piece and 140.00 to install. Then he tries to set me up for the next soaking…..

When I get there he tells me that the O2 sensors would cost about $100.00 a piece and that it would cost about $150.00 for him to put them in, he quoted me 600.00. That’s when I pulled out my Ebay print out of the O2 Sensors, and showed him the price of 16.00, he turned red, then I showed him the pictures of the $26.00 stabilizer bar he put in, he turned redder….. He tried to charge me $400.00 for a $64.00 part.………..I know you get what you pay for, yea right, I’m not trying to keep this car forever…

Caveat emptor

He got me for about 100.00 bucks, he won’t get me again!!!!!

( Stable.jpg… (KO1111.jpg

Stable.jpg


KO1111.jpg
 
Yes, and without at least seeing the box your part came in you have absolutely no idea what part you have installed. It may be cheap, it may be a higher quality part.

Over the years from some very odd experiences I've found that all non OEM O2 sensors do not read as accurately as the OEM stuff. To me a $16 O2 sensor is junk and not worth the time to install it. Good luck...
 
I know people LOVE to think they're getting fleeced, but in this case I have to point out that you have NO idea if you're comparing apples to oranges.

Assuming these are the upstream o2 Sensors, they retail from Ford for $74.85 each, plus tax. Sure, $100 is a little high, but not out of the ballpark for an unofficial quote from an independent shop (in the industry most o2 Sensors are well north of $100). The labor cost is also right on the money if you include the time spent running codes to diagnose the vehicle.

As far as the sway bar, what was the exact part you needed? You say he said you needed a "stabilizer bar" (which would indicate bad bushings, which only come with bar from Ford), but then you show sway bar LINKS.

If you need the bar, it's $164.52 new from Ford, which only leaves $121.48 for labor, which if you ever replaced a front sway bar is a ****ing steal (AllData says 2.3 hours to do it).

TL;DR: If you want to complain about paying someone a living wage to repair your vehicle then you should STFU and learn how to fix your own damn car.
 
So LsinYourLS (If you want to complain about paying someone a living wage to repair your vehicle then you should STFU and learn how to fix your own damn car. )

I should shut the **** up..... Wow so nasty.... Well **** you......

You read way to much into it. I know that the are Stabilizer links and not a bar... I'm not trying to deny him a living.... Again.. Very nasty....
 
He might have also been turning red because you were the 5th person to come in with "internet pricing" on an unknown quality part that day and walked out.

I don't know the whole situation, I'm not taking sides on it either.

Do you have the actual quote you can upload so we could look over it/ assess it?
 
IIRC Ford charges you for the whole bar when the bushings go out.... (very common to cause a clunk) ... Ebay is a bad source for pricing. IF you were concerned with the prices charged, you should have reviewed each part ($ and manufacture). THEN discussed if it was a link or the bar that was the problem, and adjusted prices (with quality parts and not ebay specials)...IMO.


Either way I hope your able to find a repair shop you trust...OR somewhere that can explain it better for you and not just "turn red"

GL
 
Thanks to all whom replied, I appreciate the help and will follow it, I do understand how frustrating it is to see the same question/statement posted over and over, this was my first post and I certainly should have researched the topic before I posted. I was just trying to start a dialog, I can say that I have gotten a host of information this site. I will learn a little bit more before I post. However I did not deserve the STFU.... Thank you....
 
htiek123 said:
I was just trying to start a dialog, I can say that I have gotten a host of information this site. I will learn a little bit more before I post. However I did not deserve the STFU.... Thank you....
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htiek123, I'm glad you're here, and it's good you're researching. It's just extremely frustrating for those of us in the auto industry to have people come complaining about that which they know nothing of.

Sure, there's places you can buy cheap parts online, but look at it from the perspective of the technician or the shop owner. In my case, I'm a parts manager at a Ford Dealership. I sell OEM Ford parts, have factory trained techs, who use factory special tools to diagnose and repair Ford vehicles.

Contrary to popular belief, hooking up a generic scan tool and pulling codes doesn't always diagnose the correct problem. There's usually MULTIPLE pass/fail steps that (including connector back-probing and harness tracing) are required to determine the correct sensor to replace or module failure.

Moving on the issue of "cheap" parts from the internet. OEM parts are certainly almost aways more expensive, but keep in mind they carry a factory warranty (in Ford's case it's a 2-year, UNLIMITED mile warranty that includes $150 of labor, and is good at ANY Ford dealer in the US.) Sure, your internet part carries a "lifetime" warranty, but how is it administrated? What are the conditions? If you find out the warranty is bogus are you going to pay or do you whine to the tech who installed it and try and get him to pay? Additionally, if the Ford part fails and causes injury (ball joint separation at 70MPH?), then you have a liable party you can sue. Good luck getting service of process in China.

From a business manager perspective I'd much rather stick with a reputable seller of parts (even if that means Advance Auto) than with some company selling potential crap on eBay - if only to limit my own liability and headache.

All that to say there are REASONS why reputable parts and labor cost money, and when people come on forums like this with tales of "getting screwed over" by shops my reaction is "doubt it."

Welcome to Lincolns vs Cadillac.
 
I wouldn't buy auto parts from Ebay if I could help it. You never know what the hell you are getting. With an actual auto parts store you at least know what you are buying and can pick the parts/brand.
 
Kumba said:
I wouldn't buy auto parts from Ebay if I could help it. You never know what the hell you are getting. With an actual auto parts store you at least know what you are buying and can pick the parts/brand.
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especially when somebody post a link to a set of coil for under $100 and it says "OEM" but we all know that they are not motorcraft...
 
I can understand what the OP is getting at.

I was just in the same boat. Got a quote from a shop who replaced my A/C compressor,
On installing my fan acuator, I was quoted a price of $230, to change the part. If I purchased it and brought it in. Here's the trickery it cost me $213 to replace the compressor, recover refrigerant and refill with what was recovered.

Now ask yourself why would A/C work be cheaper then replacing the fan acuator.

I was told its a 1 to 2 hour job.

I did the replacement in less then thirty minutes.
The hour came cause I had to jack the car up, place jack stands, remove wheel, crawl under the car, unscrew it, fish it from above to disconnect it and connect new part, crawl back under vehicle, screw the new acuator in, tighten done my oil pan bolts to stop a leak, that looked like someone loosen the bolts to get me in for a few more dollars.

( I know which shop did this and do not use them any more )

After all that replace what was removed and check for leaks.

If I could have raised the car in the air and walked under it no more then a 40 minute job.

Where was the work involved in a $230 price tag for labor If I'm bringing the part?

Am I paying for the knowledge no cause they kept saying the pump would need to be replaced it's bad.

No! That's not the problem.

( thanks to the guys of this site and the information I have obtained from here I knew that was not the case )

Let's face it people will cheat you if they feel you have no clue, not all but some will, if the guy was fair with his pricing there was no need to turn red in the face, because the prices would have matched up. And the OP would not be there with proof that's something about these prices is not linking up right.

When I have work done on my vehicle I request all old parts , cause what the shop don't know is the old part was marked by me before I drove to get the work done. If the part I receive do not have the marking I know they lied , to beat me out of money.

I have gotten two shops like this , who swore up and down they did the work, requested but turned blue in the face when I showed them the video of me , marking the part then of me pulling into their shop stating what service I came in to have done.
 
Trust me when I say automotive shops make profit of at least a 200% markup of their cost on the item plus the labour goes by the book and it's always more than it actually takes to do the job. They'll always try and sell you parts you don't need. It's how they stay afloat, simple as that. Doesn't necessarily make them crooks, they have overhead and need to cover salaries. Anyone can bring an Automotive tech parts they picked up elsewhere, as long as it fits, they'll bolt it in for you but will give you zero guarantee on the part and really do not concern themselves with their labour skillsets, invoice will be marked "Install Cust Parts" Labour charge and you're on your way out the door, they'll want you out as quick as possible and know you'll be back soon to explain that either it didn't solve the problem or the part in no longer working. They call that round 2 and ask you if you want it done correctly with full guarantee, the price will be as they put forth.
 
BigRigLS said:
Trust me when I say automotive shops make profit of at least a 200% markup of their cost on the item plus the labour goes by the book and it's always more than it actually takes to do the job. They'll always try and sell you parts you don't need. =
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Trust me when I say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, there are some shops that do this, but they are not as common as you think. Industry standard is about 35% gross profit on parts, that's not much. The only time you'd ever see a 200% markup on parts is some something really small a cheap, like a screw or a fastener that I'm buying for a couple cents.

Labor is what's really expensive, you're talking 70+% gross profit, for $100 an hour, the tech is seeing maybe $15-$25 depending on his pay plan, the rest is for shop overhead (as you correctly pointed out).

Source: I've been a fixed operations manager in the automotive industry for 15 years.
 
LSinYourLS said:
Trust me when I say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, there are some shops that do this, but they are not as common as you think. Industry standard is about 35% gross profit on parts, that's not much. The only time you'd ever see a 200% markup on parts is some something really small a cheap, like a screw or a fastener that I'm buying for a couple cents.

Labor is what's really expensive, you're talking 70+% gross profit, for $100 an hour, the tech is seeing maybe $15-$25 depending on his pay plan, the rest is for shop overhead (as you correctly pointed out).

Source: I've been a fixed operations manager in the automotive industry for 15 years.
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One of them mechanics at the Lincoln dealer I used to use (they closed that dealership; they had two) regularly "booked" 80+ hours per week. Not bad for a 40 hour week! Alldata shows "book time" and it is quite generous with its times.

There are some things I will ABSOLUTELY let a dealer or indie do; they can have the headache! I had no problem paying to have the rear bearings and pinion bearing replaced. I'm NOT paying the outrageous cost for the coils and plugs; ESPECIALLY as they charge separate labour for each job and add them together!
 
LS4me said:
There are some things I will ABSOLUTELY let a dealer or indie do; they can have the headache! I had no problem paying to have the rear bearings and pinion bearing replaced. I'm NOT paying the outrageous cost for the coils and plugs; ESPECIALLY as they charge separate labour for each job and add them together!
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Amen, brother. Although I'd gladly pay someone else to do coils and plugs on the 5.4, it's a ****ing nightmare. Or, basically anything on a 6.7 Diesel engine, since you're gonna take the cab off.
 
hell, youre pretty much better off pulling the cab for just about any strokers, not just the 6.7. did studs, injectors, EGR, and a couple of other things one a 6.0 once. couldn't imagine doing much of it with the cab on...
 
There's quite a few shops around here that double the parts price. It's more common then uncommon. Labor runs anywhere from $50-$85 depending on where you go. They all use some sort of guide to quote labor. A few times it's worked out in my favor but most of the time it doesn't.

But like everyone is saying, if you want the least costly option then wrench on it yourself.
 
I miss my mechanic in Chicago they were right off 63 and Kildare, the name of the shop was Tonys.

I would go in for say the starter. They would tell me look put this on yourself cause the money we are going to charge you for this service will cost you more then the part itself.

If they had a empty bay they would let me put it up in the air and wrench it myself.

I've seen people bring brand new cars still under warrenty in to them cause they was trust worthy, hell I would call them from Georgia and ask questions about what was going min with the car and they would give me a detail way of fixing it myself.

Those kind of mechanics are hard to find now-a-days
 
^^Agreed. Good all around mechanics are hard to find. Part of the problem is that, as vehicles become more complicated, they need up to date diagnostic software and manuals to diagnose and repair a car properly. The manufacturers charge fees for this software, and when you consider that an independent who works on all vehicles would have to pay these fees for every manufacturer they can reasonably expect to see, it becomes clear that they can't really stay up to date on every vehicle. This is why a lot of independents specialize in only one vehicle (especially common with the German marques).

I've also learned the hard that most tire and brake chains can only be trusted with two things: tires and brakes. On a previous vehicle, I took the car to them to get diagnosed. They diagnosed it correctly, and charged $202 for a remanufactured part as listed on the invoice. A month later the problems returned, so they tried several things (mostly mechanic-in-a-bottle snake oil to hide the problem).

They eventually agreed to replace the part. The problem returned within a month. As this point, I looked up the price on a new part. The price at the dealership for a brand new part was $172 (remember, they charged me $202 for a reman part). Eventually, they paid to send my car to another shop to do the work with OEM parts, and the problem never returned.

I now get all of my service done at the dealership. I don't have the time to do it myself (I did all my own work when I worked 40 hrs a week instead of 80-90+).
 
I wouldn't mind having the dealer do more work if they weren't all turning into glorified parts swappers with a diagnostic flow charts for brains. There are still those one or two mechanics there who actually can diagnose a car but you have to argue with the service manager for a week before you can get one of them to look at it. These are the guys who are always booked up too. Everything also seems to be an assembly with a dealer anymore. Need a rear wheel bearing? That'll be $800 please. :)

I'm a fan of places that let you bring your own parts. The one I normally use always treats me decent on time and labor. If I miss a part or they find something else bad they just give me a call and ask me if I want them to buy it. Their mark up is more of a normal retail markup (30-ish percent) and they don't try to sell me stuff. They've actually turned down work because they didn't think they could do it for a reasonable price.
 
LSinYourLS said:
Trust me when I say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, there are some shops that do this, but ....
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Oh, I see ... trust you that I don't know what I'm talking about, yet "YES there are some shops that do this" .... hmm!?!?!

Now lets add in the fact that I'm on the Canadian side and our OEM parts aren't cheap, as I continue to source them from stateside plus shipping. Still cheaper in the long run.


Good on you! Listen, I've been around mechanic friends and shop owners long enough to fully understand how this works!
 
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