Changing bolt pattern or hub swap?

[Ron Sircar]

Hi all

I have a set of 18" factory mercury marauder rims that I would love to use on my Lincoln LS, obviously the bolt pattern is different being
5x4 1/2. is it physically possible to swap on mustang front hubs and rear hubs from a IRS equipped cobra mustang onto the Lincoln LS? I would then use mustang brake hardware with the hubs.

what size 18" tire fits the LS front and back?

Thanks

 

[amorgan2017]

I have 18" rims on mine. Tire size is 245/40ZR18

 

[LS4me]

255/40 is closest to the factory 235/50/17. That's the size I'm running on Jag Tucana wheels.

 

[Ron Sircar]

255/40 is closest to the factory 235/50/17. That's the size I'm running on Jag Tucana wheels.

Cool thank you for the information

Does anyone know if swapping hubs and brake hardware from a 99-03 IRS equipped SVT cobra mustang will work on an LS?

 

[Kumba]

I'm running 255/35r18 on Jag Cygnus rims which are 18x8.5+49 without issue.

 

[FDR]

I doubt the Mustang calipers would match up to the LS knuckles. Marauder wheels would also stick out an inch more than LS wheels, given the 18x8 +35mm Marauder dimensions versus 17x7.5 +60mm LS size. You could use adapters, but you'd then be looking at about 2" of extra poke. The LS uses very deep wheels.

Jaguar Zeus wheels (S-type R, 18"), Vulcan (S-type R, 18"), or Custom (XJ? 19") may fit your taste, while being a direct replacement. The StR wheels have the advantage of offering a staggered setup (18x8 and 18x9.5) that still fit the LS with fat tires. I assume these Customs are still for sale

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...st-and-2nd-Gen-it-s-all-got-to-go!&highlight=

 

[Kumba]

You could re-drill and press in new studs to change the bolt pattern on the LS hubs. Just have to be careful not to destroy the sensor behind it.

 

[1LoudLS]

You could use adapters, but you'd then be looking at about 2" of extra poke.

yeah, and the last guy that used mustang wheels with adapters, the wheels stuck out further than a Ram's tow mirrors do! it looked absolutely terrible. probably a close second in wheel fitment only to those guys that have to lift their cars up to fit their sh!tty wheels under them.

 

[LS6_5SPD]

You could re-drill and press in new studs to change the bolt pattern on the LS hubs. Just have to be careful not to destroy the sensor behind it.

Re-drill from which bolt patterns will work? From any? 5 lug?

 

[Kumba]

Re-drill from which bolt patterns will work? From any? 5 lug?

Re-drill for whatever 5-lug bolt pattern you want. If you want 5x4.5" (5x115mm) then drill it for that. It's likely the most common 5-lug bolt pattern for aftermarket wheels anyways since Mustangs, Chargers, and Camaros all use it. Mustangs are 5x115mm bolt pattern with anywhere from 30-50mm offset which should bolt right up to the LS and work fine. They also use a 1/2"x20mm long lug stud if you wanted to make things really simple and just drill for those.

A competent machinist should be able to do that easy enough. You just press out the old lugs, mount it on a rotary table, drill it for whatever size new lugs and bolt pattern you want, and press in new lugs. You could even do it in your garage if you had a sturdy enough drill press, although you'd really need to know what you are doing in order to get it right.

I'd call a couple of machine shops and see what they would charge to re-drill a hub for a different bolt pattern and install new lugs. Tell them you just want a rough idea since you don't have the part there for them to look at. I bet it would be a lot cheaper then you think.

 

[joegr]

Re-drill for whatever 5-lug bolt pattern you want. If you want 5x4.5 then drill it for 5x4.5.

Yes, but is it possible to do that without getting too close to the existing holes? If too close, a crack may form.

 

[Kumba]

Yes, but is it possible to do that without getting too close to the existing holes? If too close, a crack may form.

I don't see much of an issue if you split the difference between the old pattern and the new. The material is only going to be as strong as it's thinnest point which on the hub is how thick it is. So if the hub flange is 1/2" thick then you'd want the studs to be at least 1/2" apart or more. If you are really concerned about it then you could slightly drill out the old lug not hole so it's smooth, press in some steel plugs, and then TIG weld them in place on the back side of the hub. All you want to accomplish is void-fill so that the metal has no where to deform. It shouldn't be an issue cause there's a lot more then 1/2" between studs. Plus if you've ever looked at the rims that have 3 different bolt patterns you can see they don't even leave that much room and that's in aluiminum, not steel. Same thing with wheel spacers/adapters except they do this by making them thicker.

Here's a video of a guy re-drilling some Subaru hubs but same concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLRz6iZz8YA


Also, don't forget you'll need to re-drill your brake rotors too.

 

[LS6_5SPD]

Re-drill for whatever 5-lug bolt pattern you want. If you want 5x4.5" (5x115mm) then drill it for that. It's likely the most common 5-lug bolt pattern for aftermarket wheels anyways since Mustangs, Chargers, and Camaros all use it. Mustangs are 5x115mm bolt pattern with anywhere from 30-50mm offset which should bolt right up to the LS and work fine. They also use a 1/2"x20mm long lug stud if you wanted to make things really simple and just drill for those.

What I meant was "from", meaning what wheel could I used on the LS. Can any 5 lug wheel fit the LS by simply re-drilling it?
I thought the wheel itself needed to be re-drilled, not the hubs.

 

[Kumba]

What I meant was "from", meaning what wheel could I used on the LS. Can any 5 lug wheel fit the LS by simply re-drilling it?
I thought the wheel itself needed to be re-drilled, not the hubs.

In theory any wheel with the same bolt pattern as the hub will bolt onto it. Now whether that wheel fits without hitting the brakes, suspension, fenders, etc, is another matter.

5x4.5" bolt pattern is VERY common so there will be tons of rim options available.

 

[Ron Sircar]

Re-drill for whatever 5-lug bolt pattern you want. If you want 5x4.5" (5x115mm) then drill it for that. It's likely the most common 5-lug bolt pattern for aftermarket wheels anyways since Mustangs, Chargers, and Camaros all use it. Mustangs are 5x115mm bolt pattern with anywhere from 30-50mm offset which should bolt right up to the LS and work fine. They also use a 1/2"x20mm long lug stud if you wanted to make things really simple and just drill for those.

A competent machinist should be able to do that easy enough. You just press out the old lugs, mount it on a rotary table, drill it for whatever size new lugs and bolt pattern you want, and press in new lugs. You could even do it in your garage if you had a sturdy enough drill press, although you'd really need to know what you are doing in order to get it right.

I'd call a couple of machine shops and see what they would charge to re-drill a hub for a different bolt pattern and install new lugs. Tell them you just want a rough idea since you don't have the part there for them to look at. I bet it would be a lot cheaper then you think.

I can do it at work, I am a industrial millwright by trade, I think the tool room has a indexing fixture for the mill, I was concerned with the strength of the hub after I ream new holes offset of the factory positions, that's why I would have preferred to try and adapt 2003-2004 SVT cobra hubs to the car if it were possible plus the added advantage of gaining larger brakes. I can see that the ABS sensor looks a bit different on the front hubs comparing the two, was wondering if electrically they are similar

 

[Kumba]

I can do it at work, I am a industrial millwright by trade, I think the tool room has a indexing fixture for the mill, I was concerned with the strength of the hub after I ream new holes offset of the factory positions, that's why I would have preferred to try and adapt 2003-2004 SVT cobra hubs to the car if it were possible plus the added advantage of gaining larger brakes. I can see that the ABS sensor looks a bit different on the front hubs comparing the two, was wondering if electrically they are similar

I don't believe the hubs will swap. Buy a Mustang hub and measure it against the LS one. I still think the easiest thing to do is re-drill the hubs especially since you have access to mills and most likely a rotary table too. The lugs would be over an inch apart from the old holes to the new ones. Each new lug would be halfway between the old lugs, and that's definitely more then twice the thickness of the hub flange. You probably know a couple machinists or engineers who could give you a better and more more reliable opinion then me on whether re-drilling would greatly weaken the flange.

Plus you probably have access to lathes too and could make some plugs for the old holes. Machine some plugs, press them into the old stud holes, TIG weld them in place on the front and back, and smooth the weld with a die-grinder so it's flat on the face of the hub. That pretty much gets as close to full strength as you can without having a blank hub.

 

[1LoudLS]

In theory any wheel with the same bolt pattern as the hub will bolt onto it.

dont forget, the center bore of the new wheels will also have to match the size of the lip on the LS hub.

 

[Ron Sircar]

dont forget, the center bore of the new wheels will also have to match the size of the lip on the LS hub.

I have an idea, a bit of research indicates hubs from a 2010+ Taurus/MKS may work as far a bolting onto the LS and providing a compatible 5x114 bolt pattern to use, I will see if I can get my hands on one and test fit it, the ABS sensor set up is different which will require some modifications

 

[joegr]

I have an idea, a bit of research indicates hubs from a 2010+ Taurus/MKS may work as far a bolting onto the LS and providing a compatible 5x114 bolt pattern to use, I will see if I can get my hands on one and test fit it, the ABS sensor set up is different which will require some modifications

Hubs from a front wheel drive onto a rear wheel drive car? Would you be putting the rear hubs on the front and the front hubs on the back?

 

[Kid_Lyrics]

I have an idea, a bit of research indicates hubs from a 2010+ Taurus/MKS may work as far a bolting onto the LS and providing a compatible 5x114 bolt pattern to use, I will see if I can get my hands on one and test fit it, the ABS sensor set up is different which will require some modifications

Update? Im interested in how this turns out.

 

[Ron Sircar]

Update? Im interested in how this turns out.

I will purchase some hubs from a Ford Five Hundred/Taurus and do a test fit, the 4 bolt flange to the knuckle is similar and it uses the 5x4.5" bolt pattern. it will require some modifications as it is from a FWD/AWD car will update after I have the parts and take some measurements. Provided I can modify them to work, it will take additional time to sort out what backspacing and offsets for rims to fit inside the wheel wells with those hubs hypothetically

 

[Kid_Lyrics]

Why not take the studs from a junkyard cars hub and press them into the hub of the LS? Do you think that would cause a crack or create negative pressure?

Albeit that would need redrilling of our hubs

_-_ IG: KID_LYRICS _-_

 

[Ron Sircar]

Why not take the studs from a junkyard cars hub and press them into the hub of the LS? Do you think that would cause a crack or create negative pressure?

Albeit that would need redrilling of our hubs

_-_ IG: KID_LYRICS _-_

The only issue with doing it that way is the potential for stress fractures between the original stud holes and the new offset pattern. it may be possible to plug and weld the original holes thus strengthening the hub to prevent fractures depending on how the hub was constructed. if it was made of sintered metal then I would not even entertain the idea (sintered metal is metal powder formed in a hydraulic press and then heat treated in a hydrogen fed furnace to allow the metal to harden) the resultant part is durable but is not weldable to any degree

I've decided since I did not end up using any parts from my 2002 V8 LS to repair the 2003 V6 LS I'm fixing up for my parents, I will do a bit of experimenting with the V8 car in terms of pushing the envelope of modifications, I will post some pics up as soon as I get the other hubs and detail any modifications required to make them fit, I will be looking to upgrade the rotors and calipers at the same time

 

[Kid_Lyrics]

*nods* I'll be awaiting any type of update

_-_ IG: KID_LYRICS _-_

 

[LS6_5SPD]

+1