Coakley concedes

[foxpaws]

Shag - Machiavelli did fairly well...

So you admit that you don't seek to analyze people or events with any real depth, but rather have a very shallow interpretation of news seen along with the general public through the filters of the mainstream media. How very pedestrian of you.

Foss - I look more at the gloss of media of the moment in politics because that is what politics have become. I personally delve deeper for my own political ideas, but most of the time out here we are discussing what will the public see... I know the rather icky workings of inner circle politics, and what analysis you can arrive from that is rather icky as well - Win. And now more than ever it seems like win at any cost, on both sides of the fence.

And how deep can you really delve into politics these days? Both sides sit on quicksand, depending on which week you look at them. The landscape changes constantly.

Other subjects - I will delve into, science, religion...

Nevertheless, you admitted that you formed a conclusion based on hearsay. This squares with your shallow view of politics based on talking points and cliches.

No, I never said I formed an opinion on Palin's book on hearsay - I read about 35 pages at first and formed an opinion from that - and then I turned it over to a friend to sticky note the interesting parts. He is conservative, and I assume I will be getting his viewpoint more than a liberal outlook. But, I have the whole book sitting here - so if I want to drudge through the tome I can.

How is your perusal of it going?

No, you're giving me what you're being told. There's a difference.

No, I am very much giving you what I see. What is the media, the parties, the candidates and their handlers feeding us. Look at the surface foss for a little bit. That is what most of the people see and base their opinion on. That statistic is very real - 90/10. We don't have a particularly educated populace when it comes to voting. I think the Brown race will show that. The tea party sent in workers and money-but I do really wonder if they knew what they were backing, or if they were just there for the '41st' sound bite. They don't usually like really moderate republicans and I think if you look at Brown's voting record, he really looks more like a blue dog democrat.

 

[shagdrum]

Shag - Machiavelli did fairly well...

Machiavellianism is, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "the employment of cunning and duplicity in statecraft or in general conduct", deriving from the Italian Renaissance diplomat and writer Niccolò Machiavelli, who wrote Il Principe (The Prince) and other works. "Machiavellian" (and variants) as a word became very popular in the late 16th century in English, though "Machiavellianism" itself is first cited by the OED from 1626. The word has a similar use in modern psychology.

That approach may be effective, but at what cost?

 

[Calabrio]

Let's wait for Brown to do something before anyone starts talking higher office.

 

[fossten]

Foss - I look more at the gloss of media of the moment in politics because that is what politics have become. I personally delve deeper for my own political ideas, but most of the time out here we are discussing what will the public see... I know the rather icky workings of inner circle politics, and what analysis you can arrive from that is rather icky as well - Win. And now more than ever it seems like win at any cost, on both sides of the fence.

Regardless of your reasoning, you admit that you trust the media as your main source of information. Very weak.

And how deep can you really delve into politics these days? Both sides sit on quicksand, depending on which week you look at them. The landscape changes constantly.

This doesn't make any sense. I doubt even you know what you just said. You're just babbling.

No, I never said I formed an opinion on Palin's book on hearsay - I read about 35 pages at first and formed an opinion from that - and then I turned it over to a friend to sticky note the interesting parts. He is conservative, and I assume I will be getting his viewpoint more than a liberal outlook. But, I have the whole book sitting here - so if I want to drudge through the tome I can.

Looks like a duck, quacks, and waddles...must be a duck.

No, I am very much giving you what I see. What is the media, the parties, the candidates and their handlers feeding us. Look at the surface foss for a little bit. That is what most of the people see and base their opinion on. That statistic is very real - 90/10. We don't have a particularly educated populace when it comes to voting. I think the Brown race will show that. The tea party sent in workers and money-but I do really wonder if they knew what they were backing, or if they were just there for the '41st' sound bite. They don't usually like really moderate republicans and I think if you look at Brown's voting record, he really looks more like a blue dog democrat.

Brown ran on fiscal responsibility and transparency, two things that Obama has sadly and deliberately forsaken. You can wriggle all you want about the nuances of his social positions, but in a state like Massachusetts, he's pretty right wing. Hell, Keith Olbermann and Chuck Schumer called him a "teabagger."(sic) Are they wrong?

You admit that you don't pay attention to what Palin says, but rather what you see and hear in the media, and yet you claim that you are giving me what you see.

Again, looks like a duck, quacks, and waddles...

 

[shagdrum]

And how deep can you really delve into politics these days? Both sides sit on quicksand, depending on which week you look at them. The landscape changes constantly.

All political policies, positions, etc. are derived from certain worldviews and those worldviews have been rather consistent for at least 200 years.

 

[foxpaws]

All political policies, positions, etc. are derived from certain worldviews and those worldviews have been rather consistent for at least 200 years.

I think you can look at this by saying the underlying cores won't change much, but the landscape that sits on top of them shifts quite a bit. And it is unfortunate that most people really only notice that pretty landscape that sits on top.

 

[foxpaws]

Regardless of your reasoning, you admit that you trust the media as your main source of information. Very weak.

This doesn't make any sense. I doubt even you know what you just said. You're just babbling.

I look at the media to gauge what others trust. Obviously in the Brown case they were going on sound bites.

Brown ran on fiscal responsibility and transparency, two things that Obama has sadly and deliberately forsaken. You can wriggle all you want about the nuances of his social positions, but in a state like Massachusetts, he's pretty right wing. Hell, Keith Olbermann and Chuck Schumer called him a "teabagger."(sic) Are they wrong?

Obama ran on fiscal responsibility and transparency - who is to say that Brown won't forsake those as well. It's politics and people change on the hill. And yes, in Massachusetts he is a bit right, but here in Colorado he would be a Dem... Is he a 'teabagger' well, he took money from them, and certainly pandered to them, but is he one of them? Do 'teabaggers' vote for healthcare packages that look like, sound like, are almost exactly like obamacare? I think not. You might want to look under Brown's wolf clothing - you will probably find a sheep.

You admit that you don't pay attention to what Palin says, but rather what you see and hear in the media, and yet you claim that you are giving me what you see.

Well, I am trying to read her book - 'her' words. I do go by the media too foss, it at least is a different viewpoint.

 

[fossten]

Obama ran on fiscal responsibility and transparency - who is to say that Brown won't forsake those as well. It's politics and people change on the hill.

FASCINATING! So you admit that Obama lied to get elected. Such fresh honesty from such a prevaricator!

Question - do you think less of Teh Won for that, or did you know from the beginning that he would "forsake fiscal responsibility and transparency?"

Well, I am trying to read her book - 'her' words. I do go by the media too foss, it at least is a different viewpoint.

You sound like you're implying that I don't listen to the media. While I don't waste my time watching Katie Couric and her ilk, I do pay attention to what the rest of the liberal media is saying. I probably watch more MSNBC, Headline News, and CNN than you do. I frequently look at NYT and WaPo articles to see what propaganda is being put out there. I hear soundbites all the time from newsies and news 'makers.' I have a very balanced stream of information.

 

[foxpaws]

FASCINATING! So you admit that Obama lied to get elected. Such fresh honesty from such a prevaricator!

I am disappointed about the transparency thing - hopefully in the next 3 years we can get some movement there. I do think he will become more fiscally responsible. This was a tough year. The economy was in shambles thanks to previous administrations. I believe that we will see movement to a more balanced budget next year, and then when the economy strengthens, pretty decent movement with this.

You sound like you're implying that I don't listen to the media. While I don't waste my time watching Katie Couric and her ilk, I do pay attention to what the rest of the liberal media is saying. I probably watch more MSNBC, Headline News, and CNN than you do. I frequently look at NYT and WaPo articles to see what propaganda is being put out there. I hear soundbites all the time from newsies and news 'makers.' I have a very balanced stream of information.

Well, I watch very little main stream currently - don't have all that much time. I catch late night snips, grab stuff off the web, and watch CNN. Mostly I read - NYT, Washington Post, The Trib, WSJ, and a couple of websites regularly... MSNBC is worthless, Fox is difficult to watch (but I do catch it). So I am probably subject to far less 'left' than you are Foss.

 

[fossten]

I am disappointed about the transparency thing - hopefully in the next 3 years we can get some movement there. I do think he will become more fiscally responsible. This was a tough year. The economy was in shambles thanks to previous administrations. I believe that we will see movement to a more balanced budget next year, and then when the economy strengthens, pretty decent movement with this.

So you didn't expect him to act this way? He had you fooled? You believed his smooth words? That's too funny. I predicted he would act like a Marxist and like a Chicago thug. Ah, well, you're not as politically savvy as I am. That's what happens when you watch the MSM and depend on it.

Nice parroting of the 'It's not my fault' talking point spewed forth by your cowardly commander. So how many years does it take before Obama (and you) takes responsibility for the economy? It's been A YEAR. Unemployment has gotten much worse under his watch - 3.9 million more jobs lost. We've had two terrorist attacks. How much longer does he whine and say it's BUSHBUSHBUSH? I thought he said the buck stops with him. Hell, he even blamed Coakley for losing the election. I guess you're just as much a sucker as the rest of the sheeple that voted for him. It's not working anymore - his approval is down 20 points in a year. People aren't buying the 'BUSHBUSHBUSH' crap anymore. The fact that you still are is GOLD!

He's done nothing to help the economy. Instead, all he's done is try to take over the healthcare industry while raising taxes, jetting around bashing America, eating Kobe beef and seeing Broadway plays, and living like a king while the rest of the country suffers. He's accumulated a porkulus slush fund which he's using to bolster his holdings and those of his union buddies, while bashing doctors, bankers, and oil companies.

If you really think he's going to start being transparent, you're a moron. He has NO executive experience. The only thing he knows how to do is agitate and campaign, and that's all he's done. What do you expect when you get a community agitator and a Chicago thug (and a Marxist to boot) as President?

Mark it down. I predict he will continue to do things behind closed doors, continue to bully private industry, and continue to try to pass legislation that punishes the middle class. I've already been right for 12 months. Go look it up. I also have history on my side - I remember what Carter did and what the country did in return. The Scott Brown election is a bellweather.

You, on the other hand, are either stupid or a desperate liar. I thought you couldn't be that blind to what Obama really is, but maybe you are. At some point you'll go away either because you'll be ashamed of what you've supported, or because your lies no longer get any attention here.

Either way, I'll be standing here laughing at you as you slink away. And I'll be laughing when Obama destroys his party's control over the Congress and loses re election.