cold/hard start issues, wondering if anyone has had same issue? 06 LS

[Ben Seilheimer]

Hello,

New member here. I bought a 2006 ls at the beginning of October. I Will say I love this car. Elegant, smooth ride, just a very nice car. Anyway, so I've had the car for about 3 days, and it's in the evening. I'm leaving the house, go to start and the car just cranks, turns and turns but no start. Take key out put back in, doesn't start. Try again and it starts up fine, drives fine all is good. Now I'm a little ticked off, I just bought this car from the local dealer. I had a p.o.s before and that just ate money. My father, and grandfather have been lincoln fans and own various lincolns, one of the main reason I went ahead and bought the car.

Rambling sorry haha

Next morning, I start the car, starts beautifully, runs beautiful. Still a little ticked that I just bought the car and have what happen the night before happen to me. I take the car back to the dealership that next day. They run I diagnosis, nothing comes up. Tell me if it does it again bring it in and leave it with them. I go on my merry way thinking maybe it was a fluke incident, knowing in my subconscious that's really not the case haha.

Fast forward a week, leaving the house for work. Get in get turn key, car just cranks, take key out, put back in, so and so forth, car just cranks. 3 min later car starts up like champ. I'm thinking w.t.f? Take it back to dealer, they keep it over night, say nothing is wrong with it, send me on my way.

So I'm thinking, this is fuel issue. It's def not a power issue. Seeing as lights, stereo, everything and battery looks very new. I got some fuel line cleaner put it in, runs fine till the next week, it does it again.

Call the dealership they tell me I have to leave it with them til it does it again, because that's the only way for them to properly diagnose the problem. I understand but if it's only doing it once a week I can't leave it with them for a whole week, let alone several days.

Since then, I can count on this issue happening once a week. So my question is, has anyone here had this same issue. The vehicle cranks and cranks but will not start, except after many attempts. I've also noticed that as the weather gets cooler it's having a harder time turning and when this problem happens it's starting to take about 20 minutes of cranking to get the car to final turn and start, then it runs fine for the week.

I'm dumbfounded on this. It doesn't make sense to me to be the fuel pump, or fuel filter. Air filter is very clean and brand new. Could this be the crank position censor? Cam shafts censor? I've read issues with this car but can't seem to find the same thing, similar but not really the same and it's with older models. So I'm hoping someone here and other places can help. My dad's Mark VIII had had crank sensor problems, so that's what I'm leaning to first. I would just think someone else had this issue. I don't really have the cash to be throwing into replacing one part at a time thanks.

Any help would be really appreciated. I've been lurking here since I got the car, and will post more. Lots of info and well the LS is one slick car that I'm madly in love e with regardless of the current issue..

Also car has 60k miles , and it great shape besides this start up problem. Ran computer test with no codes, I use only 90 octane cause that's the highest we get in my little town. Out of precaution I've also had battery, and alternator tested. Those are not the issue.

Thanks again.

 

[joegr]

There are lots of things that it could be. Do you ever smell raw gasoline when it does this? Next time it does it, push the gas pedal all the way to the floor and hold it while trying to start the engine.
It could be that you need to replace the coils (all eight) and the spark plugs (all eight).
Are you at a high altitude?

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

Altitude where I live is about 3000ft. No smell of gas. I've pumped the gas pedal and have held it down when the crank issue happens. I saw that on a thread here, that someone had done that and it helped. This morning was the worst, considering it took well over 20 minutes of taking key in and out and trying to start, before it finally did start. It was around 12 degrees outside when I attempted to start the vehicle.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

Also, I have yet to start replacing parts and whatnot. Trying to get a better idea of the issue before I start spending money. The dealership gave me a good warranty on the vehicle. They've just told me they can't do anything or diagnose the issue unless it's happening while at the dealership. It just doesn't do it all the time, just once a week.

Apologies on any crappy grammar or punctuation mistakes, on my phone

 

[joegr]

Why do you take the key in and out?
Is this a Ford/Lincoln dealership?

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

Yeah it's the ford dealership. I take the key out and let it sit about 20-30 seconds before attempting to start the car again.

 

[LS4me]

Battery? If it's original it is over 8 years old and probably needs replacement. The battery should show ~12.5V when the car is off and ~14.5V when running. Anything less would indicate the need for a new battery (if less than 14.5V running the alternator also needs replacing).

 

[MadMoCal]

Hey all, I had a friend that had a problem like that with a 2002 Mustang. The dealer ship narrowed it down to a PATs Key issue they did something in the sterring column. Just a thought

 

[joegr]

Hey all, I had a friend that had a problem like that with a 2002 Mustang. The dealer ship narrowed it down to a PATs Key issue they did something in the sterring column. Just a thought

Be aware that on the LS, PATS prevents the starter from operating. Because of that, I think it is unlikely to be a PATS issue.

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

http://youtu.be/7BhG1NhHuew

This is pretty much what it does, except this is a ear lier model. The guy claims in the comments that it was his PATS. I'm still lost though. Cause like joegr said my year LS the PATS prevents the starter from operating.

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

I had the battery and alternator tested, all is good on those two.

 

[jrand]

is the red light on the dash blinking like crazy when this happens? pretty sure you gotta count the blinks to decipher a PATS code <if there is one> and u would think ford could read a stored PATS code but maybe it doesnt store PATS codes and thats why they need the car while its happening.. its been a while since i read the shop manual/pced manual chapters on PATS..so im just throwing out ideas for someone who might have read it recently or someone interested in reading it.

does your key have the lincoln logo on in it or is it aftermarket?
OP it would probably be smart of you to make a video to help your dealer if nothing else..

i would bet the battery is weak though... OP didnt go into much detail when describing it and didnt indicate he has even considered jumping it or anything.. just said its 'good'

OP is there a date sticker on the battery?

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

is the red light on the dash blinking like crazy when this happens? pretty sure you gotta count the blinks to decipher a PATS code <if there is one> and u would think ford could read a stored PATS code but maybe it doesnt store PATS codes and thats why they need the car while its happening.. its been a while since i read the shop manual/pced manual chapters on PATS..so im just throwing out ideas for someone who might have read it recently or someone interested in reading it.

does your key have the lincoln logo on in it or is it aftermarket?
OP it would probably be smart of you to make a video to help your dealer if nothing else..

i would bet the battery is weak though... OP didnt go into much detail when describing it and didnt indicate he has even considered jumping it or anything.. just said its 'good'

OP is there a date sticker on the battery?

I haven't noticed the red light blinking like crazy, but I also haven't payed attention to that. Didn't even think about it.

Both of the keys I have are Lincoln keys with the emblem on them. I do plan on taking video of it next time.

I haven't check the date on the battery. I do know that it is a aftermarket battery. I will check though in the morning. The reason I didn't think or consider jumping it was cause I had power. Stereo, lights, automatic seats, windows, etc. they we're all running properly. Out of precaution though, I had the battery and alternator tested at autozone. The dealership also told me they tested the battery and alternator, hence why I brushed it off as not the cause. I plan on putting a voltage meter to it tomorrow to be sure as someone suggested earlier.

I just want this to stop because I love this car, regardless of this issue at the moment. It's a beautiful car. I have a 1000 mile round trip next week for Thanksgiving with my family, so I am really hoping it's nothing serious.

Better description would be that it cranks, it tries to start, to me it seems like it's not getting gas. Just turns and turns, so I turn the key back to the off location and restart the process. I also take the key out sometimes, reinsert and try to start it but it just turns, and turns again. I've tried pumping the gas pedal out of habit with older cars. I don't know if that actually helps, cause I've always thought that pumping the pedal doesn't work on fuel injected vehicles. I've held the pedal all the way down, and halfway down. I've also turned off the stereo to see if that helps. I installed a subwoofer and amp a couple of weeks after I bought the car, yet it was also doing that before I installed the aftermarket stuff.

What gets me the most is that it's so hit or miss. I can count on it happening once a week. I've though had it happen in the morning, evening and daytime. It's happened after sitting all night, when I get back in the vehicle after my lunch break, or a couple of hours after work when I need to go to the store. Very hit or miss but once it does it, it runs very good for the next week. Very confusing.

 

[stugots]

Aftermarket battery, with vent tube I hope.

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

Aftermarket battery, with vent tube I hope.

Vent tube? Did not see any tube or anything coming off the battery.

 

[stugots]

Should be a rubber tube hooked up to the side of it. If not, I would look into corrison of your fuses. Also your car can blow up so get a proper battery.

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

Should be a rubber tube hooked up to the side of it. If not, I would look into corrison of your fuses. Also your car can blow up so get a proper battery.

That's freaking scary. I'll be getting a new battery tomorrow, that's for sure. Just looked there's a tube from the car but no place to for it to hook up to the battery. Does it hook up to the battery? I've never had a vehicle with a battery in the truck, so it's new to me

 

[stugots]

Yes, there is a little port on the side that the tube will hook up to. Your battery has been venting in your trunk, this is very corrosive and does have the possibility to explode if there is a spark. I would start pulling fuses and looking to see if there is some corrosion causing the intermittent starting problem, and test relays.

 

[voyeur]

vent tube.....

 

[jjcool00]

Do you happen to have a remote starter?

 

[Ben Seilheimer]

Do you happen to have a remote starter?

No it does not have a remote starter. There is evidence of a after market alarm system that was once installed. Almost wondering if that could be playing a role in the issue?

 

[LKBETTS]

This thread is totally freaking me out. I just purchased a 2006 LS 60 days ago and the fuel pump went out after one week. Then it started throwing codes. Said the injectors were bad, took off, had tested, they were fine. New fuel pressure sensor, new PVC (includes DPFE sensor), 2 new upstream O2 sensors and we are still lean on both banks 1 and 2. Tried to find a vacuum leak this weekend with carb cleaner and nada. We are going to have it smoke tested and then it is on to address the rotating misfire codes. (so far 1, 3, 5, 7, and 8 have "misfired") We have put less than 300 miles on this in the past two months. It sits in the garage like a beautiful paperweight.

 

[jjcool00]

No it does not have a remote starter. There is evidence of a after market alarm system that was once installed. Almost wondering if that could be playing a role in the issue?

The reason I ask is because I had something very similar happen a couple of times, I even created a thread linking a video to it last winter. I determined that when using my remote start sometimes when it was extremely cold the car wouldn't start. It would try and fail. When that happened and I would go outside to attempt to start the car it would just crank and crank and crank and try to start but not start. After it happened a couple of times I determined it only happened in the winter when the remote start failed to start the car. I'm not clear on the reasoning behind it but this was my case.

 

[joegr]

This thread is totally freaking me out. I just purchased a 2006 LS 60 days ago and the fuel pump went out after one week. Then it started throwing codes. Said the injectors were bad, took off, had tested, they were fine. New fuel pressure sensor, new PVC (includes DPFE sensor), 2 new upstream O2 sensors and we are still lean on both banks 1 and 2. Tried to find a vacuum leak this weekend with carb cleaner and nada. We are going to have it smoke tested and then it is on to address the rotating misfire codes. (so far 1, 3, 5, 7, and 8 have "misfired") We have put less than 300 miles on this in the past two months. It sits in the garage like a beautiful paperweight.

You mean new EGR valve. That's the assembly that has the DPFE. There is a PCV system, but no PCV valve.
You may fight and resist this, but I promise that step one here is to replace all of the COPs (coils) and all of the spark plugs, all at the same time. Also make sure all the new plugs have a gap of 1.0mm. This is important.

 

[regiment1]

I had this problem. It was a fuel pump in my case