Considering A Mark VIII? (Thinking Out Loud)

[ricardocordoba]

Hello all, I will make this short. I stumbled across this forum upon doing research. I'm just wondering if it is worth to purchase a Mark VIII? I've read mixed reviews on the car. I've thinking of using one has an every other day driver and cruiser/fun car. I see they are cheap but, cheap doesn't necessarily always mean good. I've also considered the purchase of a newer Camaro/Mustang for this reason but, in the Camaro it would be a 2013-15 with a V6 and a Mustang in the '15-'16 model year range and again V6 because I have a hard time paying over $20k (actually closer to 23k) for a V8 model plus I don't like car payments.

The Lincoln Mark VIII meets the bill in a few ways in that it has a V8, IRS, four wheel discs, and has some unique value to it. But, I'm just looking for feedback and advice on that matter. My idea would be to buy one that already has say the transmission rebuilt even it puts me in the higher mileage range. But, I'll just wait and see what people say. Thank you in advance for any helpful information or advice you can provide.

 

[slowmkviii]

It depends on what you want out of a car
I love my marks, I've had a minimum of 1 for the last 13 years currently I have 3.
you mentioned the mustang and camaro v6 they will have performance better than the mark in every way
BUT the mark can sound good has unique looks and a great interior.
And with money can perform good too.

 

[JamesVinar]

You have to consider the maitenence. Our cars need front end rebuilds alot and there arent too many replacement parts out there.
Then again youll be getting a car thats a little slow at the start but then you do the simple mods and suddenly youre in the 13s with a v8 rwd

 

[soduka]

In my own opinion at this point the only reason to buy a Mark VIII is for the unique factor and you like the way they look. I think they're cool looking cars and no manufacturer has built something to be the next Mark VIII. Ford is obviously still uninterested.

But they're temperamental in different ways depending on model year. Parts are beginning to disappear and I don't think anyone's really making new anything for them now. Unless you are capable of doing the work yourself when it needs something, like its frequent front end suspension rebuilds, it's absolutely not worth it. In the muscle and handling department these cars have been surpassed many times by now.

If you gotta have a Mark, I think you would feel it. In that case I'd find the cleanest, most cared for one you could for $2k-4k and drive the hell out of it. These are certainly not the cars you want to buy that "need a few things".

 

[Spree]

As a former Viii owner (I had it for 16 years). I put plenty of $'s in it too. I loved that thing. As mentioned above, they are parts specific and hard to come by. I sold it (which I said I'd never do). I bought a newer Lincoln (2013 MKX). I never looked back! I am also looking at a newer mustang or challenger. They will blow the Viii out of the water I say go newer! Forget about the Viii, unless you want a project.

 

[olddavid]

Of course a 20 years newer car will "blow an VIII out of the water". I have four collector cars and a 98 MarkVIII that I daily. All of these are excellent drivers with completely different characteristics. I maintain this "fleet" on the budget I established at retirement for cars. My wife has a newer M35X Infiniti that costs as much to maintain - including cap price - as all my cars together. I guess it depends on your own personal parameters. That and where I live the tinworm is almost nonexistent. Good luck

 

[ricardocordoba]

Well, it might be more a play car but, I wanted somewhat daily driver friendly. The Mark VIII would potentially replacing a 79 Chrysler Cordoba with a carb'd 360, 3spd automatic, and 2.45 gears haha. Just to give a background I also just picked up this 1991 Lincoln Mark VII from a Mark VII club member. The car is almost at 49k miles and has a lot of the common Mark VII issues (fixed for now). Here's a picture from this link. http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/Gallery/albums/Pictures-1991-Mark-VII-LSC/Cosmo2014_05_03.jpg

 

[ricardocordoba]

I do like the way they look and they are unique. In some of my ways I consider myself an oddball so this car kind of fits that and obviously Ford/Lincoln is not making these cars anymore. The V6 Mustang and Camaro do have better performance. Now, the only thing is that both of them are not as comfortable as the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger.

 

[JamesVinar]

I like that a little more, more flexability because of the fox bodys. Look into the marauder also

Honestly if i could have i would have gotten a 7 if it was in good condition and the right color

 

[ricardocordoba]

Any older car is going to be temperamental. I've also had newer cars that were as well. In fact, right now there is a TSB for the throttle body replacement on the 3.7L V6 Mustangs which rumor has that will not be produced after 2018. As for parts, it's always good to start collecting parts as most manufacturers stop making parts for a model 10 years after the production run. Heck, I've had 1990 Dodge Dakota Convertible truck and finding even the basic Dakota parts is somewhat difficult now considering up to 96 model parts.

Most of the ones I have looked don't have the air suspension anymore. That's fine by me because I'm sure the car could ride fine considering according the specs I saw shows a 113 inch wheelbase which is the about same an 84 Chrysler Fifth Avenue I used to own. BTW, it was the most comfortable car I drove up until that point.

Anyways, how often does the front suspension need attention and what is it that needs attention typically? Most of the ones I had been looking at are in the $1800-$2500 range.

 

[ricardocordoba]

Thank you. Most newer cars will wax my old 71 Challenger R/T Clone I'd use to own too and much less a lot of big block classic cars. Man, that was a cramped car haha with it own issues haha. But, anyways congrats on the MKS. I think some of the newer Lincolns are sharp cars. I have my 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 for winter snow purposes. While it has been a decent truck it needs to be retired to towing/hauling/winter duties only.

I did also think about a Maurader but, they are a lot higher price wise and I'm looking for mainly another two door to have as a back up.

 

[ricardocordoba]

I've given thought about buying another Mark VII at some point maybe to hot rod I've had some very unique daily driverish cars including a 68 Coronet 2dr Hardtop with a 318, manual steering, manual drum brakes, no A/C, cruise or that jazz. The Mark VII is a decent car. The crazy thing is that it is more quiet on the highway than a 2016 Kia Soul I had for a rental car and rides better too.

My wife has 2013 Camaro RS V6/auto and it runs and handles well. The biggest thing I don't like is the seats. They're okay. The best seats I had in a car with a creampuff 1984 Chrysler Fifth Avenue RWD. It had shag carpet and soft pillow top seats but, those cars are not as daily friendly as a Mark because they are still carburetor and suffer from some offer issues since the A/C and heat in those rely more vacuum operation.

 

[soduka]

Any older car is going to be temperamental. I've also had newer cars that were as well. In fact, right now there is a TSB for the throttle body replacement on the 3.7L V6 Mustangs which rumor has that will not be produced after 2018. As for parts, it's always good to start collecting parts as most manufacturers stop making parts for a model 10 years after the production run. Heck, I've had 1990 Dodge Dakota Convertible truck and finding even the basic Dakota parts is somewhat difficult now considering up to 96 model parts.

Most of the ones I have looked don't have the air suspension anymore. That's fine by me because I'm sure the car could ride fine considering according the specs I saw shows a 113 inch wheelbase which is the about same an 84 Chrysler Fifth Avenue I used to own. BTW, it was the most comfortable car I drove up until that point.

Anyways, how often does the front suspension need attention and what is it that needs attention typically? Most of the ones I had been looking at are in the $1800-$2500 range.

The nature of the Short-Long Arm (SLA) suspension the Mark VIII uses ends up being that it's great when it works but when one part wears prematurely it takes everything with it. It's also the nature of the system that in order to replace any one part pretty much the entire front end has to be removed to do it anyway so you may as well replace it all at once or the most worn part will drastically accelerate the wear of everything else and you'll be back to square one in 20k miles.

It uses upper and lower control arms with either an air shock that bolts into the lower control arm or a coil over shock system if it's been converted. The chassis and suspension system of the Mark VIII is shared with the Thunderbird and Cougar so all the parts are compatible with the exception of the upper control arm, if you're still on air suspension. The Mark's upper arm has a little antenna sticking off of it for a ride height sensor that the Thunderbird's UCA does not have. If you're on coils it doesn't matter.

People have said that a properly built coil over system with quality parts is just as good as the air suspension. Others will tell you if it ain't on air then you may as well just buy a Thunderchicken. For a while the go to on that was Moog coil springs and Koni shocks built for the Thunderbird. I don't know if you can still find them as I believe Koni stopped making those shocks several years ago. Apparently they're very good.

 

[kzen64]

I love my Mark VIII, even with the issues it has. Comfortable, fast, 20mpg average. But it is for sale, only because I'm looking for something more practical (4 doors and FWD or 4x4/AWD.)

Current issues are:
The heat is inop from the blend door arm breaking, have the part, going to do that when I can take 2 days off and not have to drive anyone else around.
Drivers side ball joint needs replaced.
Sunroof is disconnected, one of the brackets broke. It leaks air, and leaks water in the car wash.
Headliner is getting trashy.
Speakers need replaced.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?99537-1997-Lincoln-Mark-VIII-LSC-Indiana-stock

If you'd like to look at one in person, we can arrange something.

 

[91 LSC SE]

Hey ricardocordoba, nice choice on the M7. I have a 91 LSC Special Edition. If you are thinking of getting another M7, I recommend getting an SE. They are monochrome and have the window/mirror chorme blacked out. Gives a completely different look to the M7. See pics below.

I will say that I'm surprised to hear some of the comments above.

I bought my M8 as a winter ride, 3 years ago and liked it so much, I starting buying summer parts like 18 inch deep dish with BF Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP II Ultra Summer tires.

First year I did nothing but oil changes. Yes the blend door went (big deal, one zip tie one clamp and 35 minutes later heat). The neon ballast went about a year and a half after purchase and liked the light so much, I was happy to spend $120 USD to buy a new ballast.

Yes I recently done the front suspension (upper & Lower control arms and bushings, but my M8 had 121167 miles and I'm sure if I didn't lower the suspension, it would have lasted longer.

Oh and I did get one code for the IMRC - a spray of WD 40 and working the spring back and forth a few times fixed that.

So I think the M8 is pretty amazing for 290HP car with memory heated seats, HID lighting, lowers at hwy speed for better aerodynamics (and for $160 you can install a ASHAM 8, and have a fully adjustable suspension at the push of a button), IRS, puddle lights, easy entry, mirrors that change angle for backing up, etc etc etc.

BEST OF ALL ITS A SLEEPER! ricardocordoba if you bought a Mustang or Camaro - 5.0 will be all over you. With an M8 you save about $15k USD or $10k if you put 5K into performance parts (then you will be far ahead of either 6 cylinder) and you will have ride that appreciates vs depreciates in value. To me the choice is very clear, go drive a M8, if she is in decent condition, you will bring her home with you.

 

[ricardocordoba]

I love my Mark VIII, even with the issues it has. Comfortable, fast, 20mpg average. But it is for sale, only because I'm looking for something more practical (4 doors and FWD or 4x4/AWD.)

Current issues are:
The heat is inop from the blend door arm breaking, have the part, going to do that when I can take 2 days off and not have to drive anyone else around.
Drivers side ball joint needs replaced.
Sunroof is disconnected, one of the brackets broke. It leaks air, and leaks water in the car wash.
Headliner is getting trashy.
Speakers need replaced.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?99537-1997-Lincoln-Mark-VIII-LSC-Indiana-stock

If you'd like to look at one in person, we can arrange something.

Thank you. I sent you a PM here.

 

[ricardocordoba]

91 LSC SE, thank you for comments and information. As for the 91 LSC I have, it is a decent car to drive and as I noted it drives better than a 2016 Kia Soul and Chrysler 200. My '91 has been repainted once and I'm thinking it was part of the recall on the Mark VIIs for their poor paint. Despite things, I'm eccentric like the Mark VIII and I'm so I'm still leaning that way toward one. I'm about experiencing different things in life. I need to drive a solid Mark VIII before I really sell some stuff and continue to go forward.

As for the Mustangs and Camaros, up here there a lot more than you think. More Mustangs than Camaros. I've always been a sucker for luxury cars. I guess my old 1989 Honda Legend Coupe (Japanese model) got me hooked. That car had independent suspension as well. My model being a Japanese model had the electronic climate control and 20 more hp than the US version.

 

[93mark8rules]

Your car interest seems a lot like mine, I got my license in 2003 and my first car was a 74 olds 88 convertible, then an 80 trans am with a buit 455 big block I was alternating between that and a 75 coupe Deville, Got rid of the Caddy in 06 and bought a 93Mark 8 with 174k on it, bad air ride, original spark plugs and wires, bad flasher, bad valet computer, and broken 1-2 accumulator spring for $800. Fixed it all up and I loved the car faster than my friends mustangs and comfortable as all hell. I drove it for a year and hydrolocked the engin going through a deep long puddle. I held onto the car and had a bunch of other cool 70s cars, I put another motor in it I'm 2008 then it ended up under water during Hurricane irene. Ive wanted another one since. I recently bought a 94 for 450 with a 160k miles on it but a rebuilt trans and bad air ride. I was cocky and took it home... well it was a nightmare. The rebuilt trans blew up a week after I got it. Then I got a rebuilt one from the trans shop I know for 1200, then I replaced all the bags with Westar bags, then I had to rebuild the front and rear end because the previous owner drove all over for a long time with bad air ride, and he had hacks maintaining the car so I pretty much rebuilt everything on the car.

This being said, I've been all over the mark and been through he'll and back. Here's what I can tell you and I'll be honest. If you don't know how to do work on your own car don't bother. They are fairly reliable I've only gotten stuck once in a mark aND that's because it ended up almost under water. 97-98s are nice but the HID lights are difficult to get replacement bulbs for, and the Neon trunk light is problematic, and the blend doors break, but they got the transmission sorted out fairly well by 96. My personal preference is the first gen 93-96, don't buy one where the air ride is shot unless you don't mind dropping about 500 to rebuild the entire front end plus about $400 for a pair of new front air struts. Now if they've been shot for a while the compressor will need to be replaced that's about 200. Next somewhere around 140-170k the trans will drop dead. So you're looking at around 1200 if you can install it your self. Other than that little BS stuff will go bad like the plastic balls in the window motors will go bad but 20 min and $5 later their fixed, seat tracks jam, and the jbl amp makes noise, the fuel pump went bad on both cars around 175k, and the headlights fog up, I found a good clear set on ebay for $120 and I put the brightest LED headlight bulbs in them and they're great. But everything else pretty much holds up and the car runs for ever. It's like ozzy Osborne no one understands why it's still alive. My buddy's dad has 400k on his with 3 junk yard trans missions and 2 front end rebuilds, and new air ride other wise its all original. My 94 has basically all new suspension and some new gaskets in the motor, an alternator, transmission, and fuel pump, otherwise all original and all working even the AC. I don't think you can go wrong with a Mark, just get the best, unmolested, well preserved, lowest mile one you can get. If you find a high mile one just look for one that was maintained and you may do good. My first one had only bs stuff wrong before I blew the engine.

 

[ricardocordoba]

Thank you. I'm still on the fence about a Mark VIII. So far, I've seen some lower mileage ones that were a decent price. Reading some of the issues makes think hard. To honest I think if I drove it, I would maybe average 4k-5k miles a year at most maybe. The suspension issue is the biggest. I've read a rebuild every 20k to 30k? I know with the Chrysler LX/LY platform (300, Charger, Magnum, Challenger) that keeping alignment in those cars can be difficult on the older ones and tie rods usually last 30-40k on the '05-'10 model years and there is the 5.7L Hemi timing chain and valve guide issues on the older ones as well. Anyways, I'm just looking for a fairly fun halfway reliable car. I know the reliability won't be a like a Toyota/Honda but, those brands have their own issues as well. Thank you again.

 

[soduka]

If you use crappy Dorman parts then yeah, you'll probably get about 30k miles out of your front end. There are good quality parts out there and solutions to the discontinued parts like the Strut Rod Bushing Sleeves but they aren't cheap. They are quality however and they will give you the "expected" lifespan of about 80k-100k miles the front end would last for from the factory. Those aftermarket machined strut rod bushings, which I've never tried but would have loved them had they been a tiny bit cheaper, are amazingly overbuilt (in a good way) compared to OEM and probably last forever rather than rust out, again like OEM. That's not substantially worse than many cars with any suspension more advanced than A-armed strut suspensions.

If you want one, and for me after thinking about it over the last several months I would definitely go for a Gen II at this point, there are only a few trouble spots and like I said there are remedies. The rear Neon ballast has a guy that makes a superior product. The HVAC blend door arm has ways to fix it permanently. The HID lights can be retrofitted to use modern technology so you're not spending $100 for a used bulb. Beyond that there aren't many crazy barriers stopping you from enjoying a trouble free Gen II Mark VIII for another decade. Compare that with the newer Lincoln LS that experiences rotting cooling system parts where you have to replace the entire cooling system for $700 in parts every 5 years just from regular use, and that's if you do all the work yourself.

And the LS doesn't look as cool and has a dozen other bizarre and many, many times more expensive problems than the Mark VIII's worst day.

 

[SouthernGemini]

Soduka’s post on Dec 13th was a spot on SHORT answer as well as 93Mark8rules that followed but here is my long answer. I currently own three cars down from 5 four years ago. I am a single guy, no kids and I used to rotate the insurance on my vehicles depending on the time of year and what I was working on. I often insured three vehicles to drive at any time. Before I bought my Mark VIII from a former member on this forum, the two vehicles I had (still have) were my drivers (see below) but also had a Honda Accord as my economical vehicle which is now sold.
06 Titan X-Cab 4x4 with 1.5 lift, exhaust work, tow package, but drivetrain all stock.

1993 Crown Vic LX, 5.4 Lightning engine, T56 transmission, too many mods to list.

What I wanted: I was looking for similar to what many on here stated regarding their Mark; a fun reliable daily driver that had character. For me, I like walking up to my car and enjoying the visual experience. The 97-98 Marks are visually pretty to me. Nice lines and is a mix of sport and elegance. I am a stickler for finding the right car once I pick my make, model and year. My Celica came from FL, Titan from AR, Crown Vic from IN, and my Mark from GA. It took me one year to find my Mark and I only truly considered one other that met my wants which was located in OR. All of them I traveled to the sellers location and drove back. This was my list of wants: 97-98 Mark, Grey, well taken care of (and willing to pay more for it), air suspension and I can’t think of anything else.

As the third owner of my Mark and had for about 2.5 years (or 3.5 geez I can’t remember) here are my points FWIW.

1. For their time, the Mark had plenty of electronics. Find a car with as little electronic issues; hopefully NONE.

2. The front end design is horrific. Like many I went with cheap parts the first time b/c like you, planned to drive it less than 10k a year. I got what I paid for. Buy the good parts that cost 4 times as much.

3. If you can afford it, pay more for the car with less overall issues. Parts can be a bear. Considering buying a 98 that needs rear ABS sensors? Don’t be fooled thinking you will hop on down to Napa and pick up a pair.

4. Don’t be scared of air suspension. Many on here may take it or leave it. I had not owned a vehicle with functioning air suspension until my Mark and I don’t dare replace the system with springs. My Mark corners beyond my expectations with almost no roll on long highway exit and on ramps with tires crying out against the asphalt/concrete. If my suspension needed $600 worth of parts to fix something but a spring replacement was $200 I wouldn’t blink twice at the $600. 93Mark8rules did an accurate write up above Dec. 25th.

You seem like an enthusiast ricardocordoba and any true enthusiast will appreciate a car that is rare, different, etc. I have about $17k into my Crown Vic. At car shows I may be placed next to a $50k Mustang, $50k Camaro, $60k Viper and I have just as many interested viewers as the others. Attendees often spend more time looking at my Crown Vic, reading the modification list and asking me questions b/c that car with those mods is rare. No offense to Mustang (my brother has a 2015 GT and my best friend has a 2012 GT) and Camaro owners but they are a dime a dozen. I lurked for one year on LVC to find my Mark … and I’m glad I did! I need to post new pics b/c I now have new wheels and tires along with it being lowered. It changes the look significantly and is visually more appealing than before.

 

[BILLBOATS]

Motor trend road tested a new mark with excellent zero to sixty times of 7.1 seconds. A 1/4 mile speed of 93 or higher, I saw one figure 119 but probable not stock. I have a 1996 since 2011 and despite small obstacles like trunk and gas switches not working I have decided to fix all the minor problems and have the front end completely rebuilt. I have 4) 10 spoke 96 rims in my garage that I purchased in Michigan for 300 to replace the non orginal rims this spring and new sumitio tirs. Thats how much I like this car. Excellent gas millage to VA beach 25-26 mpg cruise at 75-80 Orginally paid 2800 but I'll have over 4000.00 when I am done. I hope I can get 3500 to 4 in 2 to 4 years from now. If you buy one make sure it dosent have a broken IMRC whch can fail you in an E check state..The 4.6 l motors are strong engines and ford puts then into many models besides lincolns

 

[BILLBOATS]

Good advice, buy one with all the electric window working , the horn too because fixing calls for a clock spring. The gas door and trunk should operate from the drivers door. No dents or rust will save you time and $ so buy rust free.Scan it yourself or go auto zone for a scan to eliminate codes. The check engine light on my dash was painted black . I failed e check and could not get plates for 3 years. Had I known, the price offered could have been 1000 less. Just buy the most orginal condition mark and pay higher if you see one. It is cheaper than paying less and repairing it.

 

[ricardocordoba]

Hello and thank you again for the responses. On my rebuilds I try to use quality parts because one thing I've learned is that with all cars/trucks then it will cost you in the long term plus I'd rather have it right the first time. I thought about an older Riviera as well because my high school driver was an '87 Oldsmobile Cutlass Cierra GT International Coupe with the 3.8L V6 and digital dash. I grew up around hot rods and what is now classic cars as well. I've mainly been into Mopars of different sorts. Mopars have their quirks just as much as some of the newer cars.

Anyways, I'm still on the fence. I guess I'll see where things are at later on and make my decisions from there. It appears Ford is the worst for getting rid or NS1ing their parts from what I have read. Anyways, I guess I'll see what happens. Thank you all again.

 

[ricardocordoba]

Yes, nice vehicles. I actually prefer the styling on the earlier gen 1 Mark VIIIs however, my understanding is that the gen 2 is slightly revised with regards to the interior and transmission issues. If I buy one my preferences would be low mileage and stock with maintenance upkeep. As for the ABS sensors its the same with any Mark even the Mark VIIs. Parts for the air suspension are slightly cheaper than the Mark VII but, not by much. If it has springs then fine. The wheelbase is long enough to make up for ride. I like different cars because I'm different or at least IMO compared to majority of society. I've driven the newer Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger. All V6 models. The Camaro has the least comfortable seats of the bunch IMO. The Challenger has the most cockpit room but, seems the slowest of the bunch even with the 8 speed automatic. Long term I don't know how any of these cars do really. I haven't seen a ton of them with as many miles as some Mark VIIIs have.

They all have their own issues and are a pain to work on like the Mark VIIIs. Want to replace the backup bulbs in the 2010-2013 Camaro? The back bumper cover has to come off. Want to replace the heater core? The front windshield needs to come out to make the job easier. Case in point even with our technology things haven't gotten easier to work on or maintenance is some respects.

As I've gotten older and daily driving older cars such as a '71 Challenger with a 383 Mopar B engine, '79 Lil Red Express, and 68 Dodge Coronet with manual drums, steering, and no AC I've come to appreciate things such as fuel injection, four wheel disc brakes, and AC, cruise. The idea behind the Mark VIII was to have a quicker, better handling car, with fuel injection, and more slightly more comfort than my '79 Cordoba. I think the Mark VIII would check those boxes but, I know some of maintenance thing is a nightmare. 4v Valve cover gaskets are a pain but, so are replacing header gaskets an older Mopar. Perhaps their is some fallacy in my judgement but, time will tell once I examine things. Thank you all once again and in advance.