Considering an LS . . . a few questions

[bdonkersgoed]

A friend of mine is thinking of purchasing a used 2000 Lincoln LS with about 75,000 miles. It was well maintained and owned by the elderly father of one of his friends. I can't remember if it was the V6 or V8 model. He has a few questions that he wanted me to find answers to:

1.) The LS is rated to take 91-octane fuel. Is it OK to use regular 87-octane fuel instead? Would the knock sensor appropriately accomadate the reduction in octane?

2.) This is kind of a follow-up to the first question. He was wondering if there is a way to alter the ECU (with a chip or something of the sort) so that it is safe to use regular 87-octane fuel. Does such a chip exist?

3.) Relatively speaking, how expensive are Lincoln LS parts? I am under the impression that aftermarket parts are not readily available, so you must go to the dealer for all parts? How do the price of parts compare to those of other manufacturers? Approximately how much do you spend annually on maintenance and repairs?

4.) Is there any advice that you can offer to a potential LS owner? Is there anything in particular that he should look out for when making a purchase?

My friend is a mechanic, so he can inspect the car himself and perform his own maintenance/repairs.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[FreeFaller]

The LS absoluteley requires premium fuel. The compression is far to high for anything else. Lower octane fuel will actually detonate in the chamber before it reaches TDC. Not good.

LS parts are a bit more expensive than some because of the fact that it is a fairly young vehicle and the aftermarket parts arena has not come full swing yet. The dealer is pretty much your only choice on some parts.

As far as advice...Just give the vehicle a good run through by a mechanic and be watchful of '00 models and '03 models. '00 was the first year of the vehicle and is known to have a few problems. In '03 they changed a crapload of parts on the LS and once again had it share of problems. Most of which can be fixed by the dealer. I myself have and '02 and have had absolutley no problems with it.

One more piece of advice. Try to buy an LS from a Ford Lincoln Mercury dealer and not a private company as they will treat you much, much better.

Just my $0.02

 

[Fordman]

I totally agree with Freefaller. Lower octane fuel would not be a good choice. You will loose on gas mileage and also power. For the 20 cents difference it's not worth taking a chance. As far as the 2000 model be careful. They have had to many problems. I have 2001 very late production, and has been a great car. Very few problems. There is some aftermarket stuff available but not much. Good luck.....

 

[bdonkersgoed]

The LS absoluteley requires premium fuel. The compression is far to high for anything else. Lower octane fuel will actually detonate in the chamber before it reaches TDC. Not good.

LS parts are a bit more expensive than some because of the fact that it is a fairly young vehicle and the aftermarket parts arena has not come full swing yet. The dealer is pretty much your only choice on some parts.

As far as advice...Just give the vehicle a good run through by a mechanic and be watchful of '00 models and '03 models. '00 was the first year of the vehicle and is known to have a few problems. In '03 they changed a crapload of parts on the LS and once again had it share of problems. Most of which can be fixed by the dealer. I myself have and '02 and have had absolutley no problems with it.

One more piece of advice. Try to buy an LS from a Ford Lincoln Mercury dealer and not a private company as they will treat you much, much better.

Just my $0.02

Thanks for your response!

Does anyone else have anything to add, especially with regards to Question #1 (that was his most important question). I am not technically inclined myself, but if you could give a detailed technical argument explaining why you can or cannot use regular fuel, he would really appreciate it (because he is an automotive technician).

Thanks again,
Bryan

 

[bdonkersgoed]

It seems as though the general consensus is against using regular fuel, which will disappoint him. He does a lot of long-distance driving and doesn't want to have to pay for premium fuel.

He mentioned that the car already has a tank of regular in it, and he test drove it and there was absolutely no knock. He just wanted to verify that it is OK.

I really can't remember with certainty if the car is a 2000 or a 2001. . .

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[bdonkersgoed]

This is what I pulled from Lincoln's Specifications on the LS:

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ENGINE LAYOUT - front engine, rear-wheel drive

TYPE - V-6 - DOHC 24-valve V-6 with aluminum block and cylinder heads

TYPE - V-8 - DOHC 32-valve V-8 with aluminum block and cylinder heads

DISPLACEMENT - V-6 - 3.0 liter

DISPLACEMENT - V-8 - 3.9 liter

COMPRESSION RATIO - V-6 - 10.5:1

COMPRESSION RATIO - V-8 - 10.75:1

EPA MILEAGE ESTIMATES - V-6 - with 5-speed automatic transmission 20 (city); 26 (highway)

EPA MILEAGE ESTIMATES - V8 - with 5-speed SelectShift Automatic™ transmission 17 (city); 24 (highway)

HORSEPOWER - V-6 - 232 @ 6,750 rpm (SAE net)

HORSEPOWER - V-8 - 280 @ 6,000 rpm (SAE net)

TORQUE - V-6 - 220 lb.-ft. @ 4,500 rpm (SAE net)

TORQUE - V-8 - 286 lb.-ft. @ 4,000 rpm (SAE net)

FUEL INJECTION - sequential multi-port electronic

FUEL REQUIREMENT - 91 octane (recommended)

COOLING SYSTEM - fail-safe cooling

IGNITION - coil-on-plug electronic ignition system

EXHAUST SYSTEM - full dual stainless steel with separate catalytic converters, mufflers and resonators

TRANSMISSION TYPE - V-6 - 5-speed electronic automatic overdrive

TRANSMISSION TYPE - V-8 - SelectShift Automatic™ transmission

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice that it says 91 octane "recommended". Doesn't this mean that 91-octane fuel is not required? I pulled the following blurb from a Cadiallac review on car.com (and thought this should apply to the LS as well):

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"When GM says premium fuel is recommended as opposed to required, it usually means you can run on regular fuel with lower power but no long-term ill effects."

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What do you guys think?

Bryan

 

[Homeslice]

It seems as though the general consensus is against using regular fuel, which will disappoint him. He does a lot of long-distance driving and doesn't want to have to pay for premium fuel.

He mentioned that the car already has a tank of regular in it, and he test drove it and there was absolutely no knock. He just wanted to verify that it is OK.

I really can't remember with certainty if the car is a 2000 or a 2001. . .

Thanks,
Bryan

The LS was designed to run on premium fuel for optimum performance and gas mileage. Even though it might not be knocking its still not running at its optimum output in addition to decreased gas mileage. Someone did the math here and it came out to maybe a few hundred dollars more a year...if that. The money he'll be saving using regular with be negligible since he'll be filling up the tank more often.

 

[Homeslice]

I believe regulations require car manufacturers to make cars with the ability to run on lower grade fuels in addition to premium. They can't make it mandatory to run on premium.

 

[bdonkersgoed]

The LS was designed to run on premium fuel for optimum performance and gas mileage. Even though it might not be knocking its still not running at its optimum output in addition to decreased gas mileage. Someone did the math here and it came out to maybe a few hundred dollars more a year...if that. The money he'll be saving using regular with be negligible since he'll be filling up the tank more often.

I would like to see the math that they used to derive this figure. . . do you know how I could find this thread?

What was their assumption on the difference in MPG between 87-octane and 91-octane fuel? Did they derive this figure by empirical evidence, or by an estimate?

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[bdonkersgoed]

I believe regulations require car manufacturers to make cars with the ability to run on lower grade fuels in addition to premium. They can't make it mandatory to run on premium.

I have no idea why any government would enforce such a regulation . . . ??? What difference does it make to the government what type of gas you use?

Bryan

 

[Fordman]

I can't tell you where they came up with this, but I will tell you when gas prices really jumped I tried my LS on regular. First tank not bad no knock seemed okay. By the third tank I had dropped at least 3 MPG, and then went to punch the car to pass someone and started to see the difference. I also know of a fellow who refused to us Premium and used only Regular. After a year and a half. He burnt 2 exhaust valves. Lincoln would not warranty them because the found that he had used the Regular fuel. Remember Regular burns hotter than Premium... Again good luck.

 

[MikeB]

On a recent trip (all interstate hwys), I tried one tank of 87 and one tank of 93 octane.

After calculating miles per gallon and pennies per mile, I figured that as long as the 93 wasn't more than 26 cents above the 87 octane it was cheaper to use the 93.

The mpg was that much of a difference.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.

Maybe I was bored but what the hell, I'm an Accountant and I like numbers.
Plus it was more fun calculating mpg than talking to my in-laws.

By the way, I'd rather take a trip in my 00LS8 than my 04 Expedition any day. :steering

The specs above are for 03 and up LS's, not 00-02.

 

[eL eS]

Hey if you Dr. "recommends" that you do somehting to get better what do you do? You could ignore it and not get better or take the advice and mitigate further injury to yourself.

I am no Dr. but I recommend that you follow their recommendations.
Rx: 91octane
Qty. 16 gals, Refils. As needed.

 

[bdonkersgoed]

Hey if you Dr. "recommends" that you do somehting to get better what do you do? You could ignore it and not get better or take the advice and mitigate further injury to yourself.

I am no Dr. but I recommend that you follow their recommendations.
Rx: 91octane
Qty. 16 gals, Refils. As needed.

Thanks for your comments guys, I will be sure to let him read this thread. I like numbers too, and I am constantly measuring my MPG.

Are you sure that you drove the same style on each tank? Facotrs such as temperature, driving aggression, terrain, etc can all change the actual MPGyou get.

Bryan

 

[MikeB]

Didn't I mention my in-laws were with us. I had road rage the entire trip.

I live on the MS Gulf Coast and we went to Disney World in December. Average temp was @ 70 but it was colder on the way there by @ 10 to 15 degrees which was when I used the 87.

The land is flat down here for the most part and trafic wasn't a major problem being that we drove most of the night there and back. I didn't check to see if I had a head wind or not but that could have made a difference too. :F

 

[eL eS]

Well I tried to octane boost the gas, from shell, after day one. It is flat as a tortilla here in Tampa and the weather is great year round. I most noticed the knock in situations where I need to jump out in to traffic or pass some snow bird on their way to bingo.

Atcruising speed around 70 every once in a while it would knock. I tried a can 104 octane boost and it didnt do squat so i just tried to stay off the accel till I had a chance to refil.

I never considered monitoring gas milage this tank is bad on gas no matter what so I can't help you in that regard.

I do know this one of the criteria for my next automobile will be that it run on 87(reommended). I am not being held hostage by the mid-east after this vehicle. Burns my hide to know that the majority of my money helps fund the holy war against us.

 

[MikeB]

The LS is better than my Expedition. It cost me $50 to fill that "tank" up and you'r lucky if you get over 16 mpg.

 

[eL eS]

The LS is better than my Expedition. It cost me $50 to fill that "tank" up and you'r lucky if you get over 16 mpg.

I fill up 2 times a week and travel only 496 miles. Most of that is on I75. So I think that gets me about the same mpg but I am moving at or around 80 MPH.

Here is a nice scientific method for recording mpg.

http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/trans/a/a.htm

 

[bdonkersgoed]

Does anyone here drive the car on regular fuel on a daily basis?

Also, I have read that adding octane booster to regular fuel does not have the same effect as purchasing 91-octane gas . . .

Bryan

 

[eL eS]

you are going to be hard pressed to find someone at this point in the game driving on 87 or 89 octane. this car has been out for nearly 6 years and some of have tried and no one has stayed with it unless they don't drive the car.

There might be some old snow birds out there that dont do over 14 MPH running it but they are doing 14 MPH and won't know the difference any way. If you plan driving this car with the intention of jumping into traffic or passing then 87 or 89 is not going to take you the distance.