Does anyone make any real parts for the LS??

[LIL SS]

I need a 4 door for a field sales position I am taking and have liked the LS since I first saw it a few years ago. The only problem is coming from a heavily modified 2001 SS Camaro it will be hard to buy a daily driver that does not have much of an aftermarket and runs mid 15’s.

Looking around all I can find is a CIA and dress up components. Are there any real parts for the LS? I’m already planning on putting a little bottle on it if I buy one.

Here are my points of interest:

Intake (I’ll probably fab something up for a CIA)
Throttle body.. Is it portable? What size is it? What material is it made of?
Cam.. Any after market options?
What fuel injectors are used? Can SVO 30’s be used? (Probably need bigger ones if I do a cam)
What fuel pressure is being seen in the fuel rails? This will come in to play with injectors..
Headers? Anything on the market or will I be using stock manifolds?
How are the stock cats attached to the ex manifolds? Would it be easy to just get a couple flanges and make straight pipes to replace them?
Cat backs I’m not too worried about, I’ll probably do a single 3” electric cut out and use the stock cat back or up it to 2.5 to the cut out.


Thanks for all your input and help

 

[Dutch]

Cam.. Any after market options?
Headers? Anything on the market or will I be using stock manifolds?
How are the stock cats attached to the ex manifolds? Would it be easy to just get a couple flanges and make straight pipes to replace them?
Cat backs I’m not too worried about, I’ll probably do a single 3” electric cut out and use the stock cat back or up it to 2.5 to the cut out.

I'm sure there aren't any aftermarket cams, but I'm also sure you can regrind the stockers to your liking. This is how the V6 Mustang cam "aftermarket" works. People have reground stock cams to support pretty wild setups.

As far as the exhaust setup goes, it's not like a GM setup - there are two catalytic converters - one for each side. It's a true dual exhaust all the way back (with an H-pipe behind the cats). Sure, you could remove the cats, but that would violate Federal law, regardless of local emissions requirements. If you're insistent, though, you can always hollow them out - alot easier than cutting and pasting.

There is an aftermarket cat-back system available, but I've never heard of headers. You could always have some made, though.

 

[mikepietras04]

I need a 4 door for a field sales position I am taking and have liked the LS since I first saw it a few years ago. The only problem is coming from a heavily modified 2001 SS Camaro it will be hard to buy a daily driver that does not have much of an aftermarket and runs mid 15’s.

Looking around all I can find is a CIA and dress up components. Are there any real parts for the LS? I’m already planning on putting a little bottle on it if I buy one.

Here are my points of interest:

Intake (I’ll probably fab something up for a CIA)
Throttle body.. Is it portable? What size is it? What material is it made of?
Cam.. Any after market options?
What fuel injectors are used? Can SVO 30’s be used? (Probably need bigger ones if I do a cam)
What fuel pressure is being seen in the fuel rails? This will come in to play with injectors..
Headers? Anything on the market or will I be using stock manifolds?
How are the stock cats attached to the ex manifolds? Would it be easy to just get a couple flanges and make straight pipes to replace them?
Cat backs I’m not too worried about, I’ll probably do a single 3” electric cut out and use the stock cat back or up it to 2.5 to the cut out.


Thanks for all your input and help

The intake that LLSOC makes is pretty cheesey. Its an awesome HOT air intake. Make your own and tuck it into the front bumper, or make and airbox to draw from a fender.

The throttle body differers from the 00-02's to the 03-05's. Nothing aftermarket can be done, just some time on a CNC, and a little patience. I have pictures in my "member photo garage" of my TB I bored out.

No Cams.

There is no reason to change injectors. But if you desire to, bosch injectors (like on the svo) will not work, i believe the injectors on the older LS's are denso's.

Fuel pressure will fluxuate from 25-35psi @18 ihg (The LS uses a Returnless flex fuel system) This is totally normal. To increase pressure, the duty cycle of the fuel pump is upped according to vacuum. (the fuel pressure sender is just after the 1/2in disconnect on the inlet) @0 ihg (WOT) pressure will go as high as 45psi


00-02's use manifolds...03-up's use 4-2-1 headers

The cutout idea would mean you would have to either do seperate cutouts, or put a large balance just after the headers. Either way, your o2 sensors will notice right away and get rather pissed setting the check engine light. It is best not to touch the LS exhaust before the cats.

 

[GrayGhost1]

The intake that LLSOC makes is pretty cheesey. Its an awesome HOT air intake. Make your own and tuck it into the front bumper, or make and airbox to draw from a fender.

First of all it's not cheesy. Why? Because I'm the one that is part of making those. Also, tucking the intake into the bumper of the LS is probably one of the worse things you can do. It's really suseptible to water ingestion there. However, we are currently making a box to shield the filter. This way it will draw the air from underneath the car and keep the filter from ingesting water.

You can make your own CAI tube with some time and patience. Just be careful where you route the filter. Below is a picture of our air box design. We are experimenting with some insulation so disregard the wrap on the bottom of the tube. With the insulation inside the air box the temperature of the box never got above 110 degrees on a 95 degree day.

 

[Pete02LSE]

First of all it's not cheesy. Why? Because I'm the one that is part of making those. Also, tucking the intake into the bumper of the LS is probably one of the worse things you can do. It's really suseptible to water ingestion there. However, we are currently making a box to shield the filter. This way it will draw the air from underneath the car and keep the filter from ingesting water.

You can make your own CAI tube with some time and patience. Just be careful where you route the filter. Below is a picture of our air box design. We are experimenting with some insulation so disregard the wrap on the bottom of the tube. With the insulation inside the air box the temperature of the box never got above 110 degrees on a 95 degree day.

I was going to try and make my own...and still haven't given up...I just need to find someone that's interested in trying to do so. I failed to get a reply from one company I emailed...so...I'm going local. Plus...it can't be that cheesy because there's not another one available...believe me...I've searched...feel free to prove me wrong. Anyway...

You probably know this but...I wouldn't worry about insulating the intake tube itself. The air will be travelling at a speed great enough to not be effected by the minimal heatsoak on the intake tube. I think it would be much like the throttle body coolant bypass on the LS1. There's really no point in doing it. Because of the air speed as it enters the throttle body, even if the coolant has increased the t.b. temperature...it has nearly no impact on the actual temp of the air as it enters the engine.

 

[GrayGhost1]

We were just seeing what the effects of the insulation on the tube would have on the TB. It was basically a waste of time but we did it anyway. I was pleasantly surprised at the temperature difference in the box though. The temp read much higher on the outside of the box so it worked on insulating the inside. As cooler days lie ahead the box may not make that much of a difference. However, it's definitely recommend for the warmer days.

Anyone can make their own CAI but there would only be a handful that would. If you can make one yourself then by all means have at it. Just let us know how it goes.

 

[LS4me]

The throttle body differers from the 00-02's to the 03-05's. Nothing aftermarket can be done, just some time on a CNC, and a little patience. I have pictures in my "member photo garage" of my TB I bored out.

Too bad the internal diameter is the same.

 

[Quik LS]

early LLSOC CAI:

with the hood closed:

http://www.llsoc.com/V2R1/registry/registry.svc.getobject.asp?id=1342

 

[mikepietras04]

Too bad the internal diameter is the same.

If you are refering to the TB i bored out, it is NOT the same. If you look at the ls TB it tapers to a smalled diameter from the TB to the plenum. I bored the TB out as far as i could until the walls by the throttle arm seals were getting thin. The throttle arm itself was widened, and i used a plate from an 04 F150 we had warrentied for a bad drive by wire motor and spun it down on the lathe to fit inside the new TB diameter. From what i remember i got about 7 more mm out of it. If you really need me to prove this to you, i will take a picture of the TB being measured by a digital caliper, and then you can measure a stock TB. No sense in arguing without the facts.


AS for the LLSOC intake.. if you guys put out that heatshield it will make a huge difference, then i wont think it is "cheesey" anymore. The first intake i made for my LS was done the same way, I had the IAT just after the MAF before the bank one PCV. When sitting at a red light on a fully warmed engine, on a moderate day (70ish) my IAT would readout upwards of 150F (according to my scan tool), as i would accelerate, and start to cruise, the IAT would start dropping within 20F of ambient air temp (close to 85F). I had shot it with my infrared thermometer for the hell of it, and read 206F at the TB. After doing the preheat bypass on the TB (looped it under the intake manifold) now when i shoot the TB i am usualy under 100F, its so much cooler than the rest of the engine it almost feels cold (cant say it adds any power though).

Question on your intake: I used a 1/2in to 3/8in grommet for the IAT to mount to the intake tube, did the same with the turbo setup, after a while the grommet would start to get cut up from the pipe no matter how smooth the edges. What are you using to mount the IAT, a bung of some sort? It needs to handle pressure when i get the turbo back on obviously, so i cant have any leaks. Just wondering what you guys did to get around this. if i cant figure anything out, i am going to take a meter off of a focus and put it in my housing (meter is the same, sample tubes are diff) Because the focus MAF has the IAT built in. BTW, i had no problem with water on my setup, the filter hung just below that oval cutout under where the stock airbox was. If you look under there, it is shielded very well, and would be very hard to get splashed with water. But if you were to use a shield like you are developing, you could just draw air from that hole anyways.

 

[LIL SS]

Thank guys for the feedback..

My thought on a CIA.. Pick up would be next to the driver fog light. It would be a sheetmetal box tapered to one side with a 2.5-3" out that comes up and goes in to another sheetmetal box that houses a 12x6 filter, much like the LS1 F-body intake does (Might even use the stocker and just cut a hole in the bottom of it). Then to the throttle body. A semi forced induction system that will give true cold air. (Fast toys ram air works kind of like this for the F-body. Picks up a solid .1 and 1-2mph in the 1/4)

I'd also be drilling a hole in it very close to the TB for the N20 nossle.

I might see if I can get a set of maniflods off a wrecked 03-05 if I end up getting an earlier one.

As far as the exhaust. Here are some pics of my old custom Y-pipe for my F-body.

http://73-ls1.com/ypipe/1.bmp
http://73-ls1.com/ypipe/2.bmp
http://73-ls1.com/ypipe/3.bmp
http://73-ls1.com/ypipe/4.bmp
http://73-ls1.com/ypipe/5.bmp


Dyno pulls to show the difference.

HP difference
http://73-ls1.com/HP_open_vrs_closed.bmp

Torque difference
http://73-ls1.com/Torque_open_vrs_closed.bmp

I don't expect the same gains do to the lack of CI's. I figured out how to by pass the O2 issues. As long as you have long enough dumps after the O2's, you don't get and cold air rushing back to tweak the O2's. I have data to prove it with the F-body.

I figure building an X-pipe right off the manifolds with no cats and putting dual electric cut outs after the X will be beast. No O2 issues and should see some real good torque with the X-pipe. Leave the stock cat back if possible.


I think that will be a good start when I buy it

 

[GrayGhost1]

Question on your intake: I used a 1/2in to 3/8in grommet for the IAT to mount to the intake tube, did the same with the turbo setup, after a while the grommet would start to get cut up from the pipe no matter how smooth the edges. What are you using to mount the IAT, a bung of some sort? It needs to handle pressure when i get the turbo back on obviously, so i cant have any leaks. Just wondering what you guys did to get around this. if i cant figure anything out, i am going to take a meter off of a focus and put it in my housing (meter is the same, sample tubes are diff) Because the focus MAF has the IAT built in. BTW, i had no problem with water on my setup, the filter hung just below that oval cutout under where the stock airbox was. If you look under there, it is shielded very well, and would be very hard to get splashed with water. But if you were to use a shield like you are developing, you could just draw air from that hole anyways.

We use a 3/8" rubber grommet. The IAT is a tight fit but it needs to be.

 

[Quik LS]

Thank guys for the feedback..
My thought on a CIA.. Pick up would be next to the driver fog light. It would be a sheetmetal box tapered to one side with a 2.5-3" out that comes up and goes in to another sheetmetal box that houses a 12x6 filter, much like the LS1 F-body intake does (Might even use the stocker and just cut a hole in the bottom of it). Then to the throttle body. A semi forced induction system that will give true cold air. (Fast toys ram air works kind of like this for the F-body. Picks up a solid .1 and 1-2mph in the 1/4)

I had a setup similar to this (before my hood scoop) where I had a ram tube coming from the lower grill into the bottom of a box that went around the filter.

I was ok - but since my car is lowered the potential for water intake was too high for me.

 

[LIL SS]

I had a setup similar to this (before my hood scoop) where I had a ram tube coming from the lower grill into the bottom of a box that went around the filter.

I was ok - but since my car is lowered the potential for water intake was too high for me.

I'm going to cust a piece of sheetmetal to sit in side the bottom of the air box as a block off plate when it rains

 

[mikepietras04]

We use a 3/8" rubber grommet. The IAT is a tight fit but it needs to be.

Which is exactly what i did (1/2in O.D. to 3/8in I.D.)... but my problem is the boost pressure moves it in and out, and the grommet eventualy cuts around the seams. If i don't put the focus sensor in my tube, i might just make a sealed bung, possibly tread the stock IAT. The ATI Procharger kits for GM's require you to cut off the housing, leaving the thermocouple itself the only remaing part of the IAT. The connection then seals using the WeatherTight seal already on the stock plug. Anyways, i just wanted to see what you guys did, thanks for the input.

 

[gijoe]

By the way, in regards to the CAI behind the frount bumper could'nt you use an air bypass valve that AEM uses on there CAI systems that exit the engine compartment.

 

[Quik LS]

By the way, in regards to the CAI behind the frount bumper could'nt you use an air bypass valve that AEM uses on there CAI systems that exit the engine compartment.

I tried the AEM bypass valve - and even worked with their tech support - in short - the V8 pulls too hard and actually causes the valve to open under high RPMs - so it cannot be used on the LS.

here is an old pic of my engine with it on:
http://www.llsoc.com/V2R1/registry/registry.svc.getobject.asp?id=1740

 

[OldSchool1]

I couldn't resist ​

 

[MAT88GT]

what kind of gains are you guys seeing with the cold air setups over stock and say a drop in kn?

 

[GrayGhost1]

what kind of gains are you guys seeing with the cold air setups over stock and say a drop in kn?

I didn't dyno my car before the CAI but I did do a comparison with a stock 2003 LS. With the CAI and Magnaflow exhaust system I was pulling more HP than the stock 03. So, in essence the CAI and Magnaflow yielded 30+HP.

Of course, as soon as the new supercharger is ready I'll be installing it for roughly gains around 110 HP.

 

[Tommy]

I didn't dyno my car before the CAI but I did do a comparison with a stock 2003 LS. With the CAI and Magnaflow exhaust system I was pulling more HP than the stock 03. So, in essence the CAI and Magnaflow yielded 30+HP.

Of course, as soon as the new supercharger is ready I'll be installing it for roughly gains around 110 HP.

You got a supercharger for your LS? :dancefool Where do I get in line!

 

[MAT88GT]

hmmm 10.5:1 compression and a supercharger sounds like trouble

do these little v8's have forged pistons?

 

[rocket5979]

hmmm 10.5:1 compression and a supercharger sounds like trouble

do these little v8's have forged pistons?

Nope they sure dont. I wish they did. Low boost (6 lb) and conservative tune will probably have to do till we can get some pistons and connecting rods offered (probably never). It looks like someone will have to bite the bullet and call up oliver, with a stock rod and piston in hand, and pay the gobs of money to have billet ones modeled after the stockers. I already got a rough price quote. It was a few months ago, but I remember the word "insane" uttered out of my mouth.

 

[JohnnyB]

Since Dutch was the only one to touch the cam q, I'll add my 2 cents. He was right that there is no aftermarket cams and that you could probably have them reground. However, I'm sure the cams will be the last thing to ever get any sort of aftermarket on the LS. Why? It's a dual overhead cam motor. This isn't an old school pusrod motor with one cam. If you're swapping cams, you have four cams to change instead of just one; so instead of around $200 for a new cam it'll be more like $800 or more for a set. The aftermarket is going to have to come a long, long way towards the LS before we're going to need new cams anyway.

 

[rocket5979]

Since Dutch was the only one to touch the cam q, I'll add my 2 cents. He was right that there is no aftermarket cams and that you could probably have them reground. However, I'm sure the cams will be the last thing to ever get any sort of aftermarket on the LS. Why? It's a dual overhead cam motor. This isn't an old school pusrod motor with one cam. If you're swapping cams, you have four cams to change instead of just one; so instead of around $200 for a new cam it'll be more like $800 or more for a set. The aftermarket is going to have to come a long, long way towards the LS before we're going to need new cams anyway.

If you take a look at the average demographic that buys these vehicles new it is usually older people, because they can afford it. The average person that is buying these vehicles brand new will have modding them for more power as a last thought in their minds. That is by far and away the biggest group the aftermarket would cater to. I would have to say that the only way the LS aftermarket will pick up in any major way would be if these engines showed up in another more sporty-imaged vehicle. We know these vehicles are sporty, but alot of others dont. Unfortunately majority rules in this case. That is the only reason why we got support for our P-TEC computers and 5R55W,S,N trannies is because of the 2005 mustang sharing these same or VERY similar parts along with a few other less notable vehicles. I believe that anything doing with the engine itself or any rotating assembly parts will be a custom application and most likely remain so in the future. I hope to god that I am wrong.

 

[Barwick]

First of all it's not cheesy. Why? Because I'm the one that is part of making those. Also, tucking the intake into the bumper of the LS is probably one of the worse things you can do. It's really suseptible to water ingestion there. However, we are currently making a box to shield the filter. This way it will draw the air from underneath the car and keep the filter from ingesting water.

You can make your own CAI tube with some time and patience. Just be careful where you route the filter. Below is a picture of our air box design. We are experimenting with some insulation so disregard the wrap on the bottom of the tube. With the insulation inside the air box the temperature of the box never got above 110 degrees on a 95 degree day.

*sigh*

sorry to bring back up an old post, but for heaven sake, people keep saying "oh NO!!! don't put your intake in the bumper, it'll suck up water..."

Listen, I've dealt with this issue with the honda/acura crowd for EVER. These things put the cold air intake right next to the underbody panel in front of the passenger side wheel well (like if you're sitting in the car, it's basically just to the right of the radiator). Now, these things NEVER suck up water unless you're an idiot and drive through the part of New Orleans that's 10' BELOW sea level and a hurricane just went through there (brilliant idea to build there by the way... :slam

In short, it's not going to suck up water unless you submerge the entire freaking filter in water. Yeah it'll maybe get a few drops of water every once in a while, but that isn't gonig to do crap.

And if you're REALLY worried about it, then AEM makes filter bypass kits of varous sizes. If there's too much vacuum (like the filter is submerged in a fish tank full of water, like the test they did with an NSX), the bypass will open up and air will enter there, instead of sucking water up into the engine. And yes, even on a 290 hp 3.2L NSX at 7000ish RPM.