Dont you just LOVE the Obama Criminal Organization??
- Thread starter ONEBADMK8
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topher5150
Dedicated LVC Member
It's kind of funny a few years ago when Bush was in office the libs were screaming bloody murder about Bush wanting to make money off of the oil after we invaded Iraq. No that Obama is in office, off shore drilling has been banned, there is more unrest in the middle east gas prices are climbing back up and not a peep from the left
JohnnyBz00LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Amazing. One GOP senator's mere unsupported accusation that Obama's goal is to increase energy prices is turned into a "fact" that Obama is a "criminal". 
The reason Bush was being criticized for not "making money off the oil after we invaded Iraq" is because, THAT was used as one of the justifications the Bush administration (I believe it was Rumsfeld specifically) used for why the invasion was essentially going to pay for itself. Thus, the left was expecting the Bush administration to put-up, or shut up. Nobody expected it because it was BS fed to the public to quell questions about the cost of an Iraq invasion. But it wasn't an idea planted by the left, it came from the Bush admin.
Additionally, why would "the left", who's priorities lie more towards development of alternative fuels and increased independance from oil (not just from the middle east) be complaining to Obama about the price of gas? If anything, the "left" is saying to those who DO complain "I told you so", and "This is just ANOTHER reason we need to be developing alternative energy sources". DUH!
topher5150 said:
The reason Bush was being criticized for not "making money off the oil after we invaded Iraq" is because, THAT was used as one of the justifications the Bush administration (I believe it was Rumsfeld specifically) used for why the invasion was essentially going to pay for itself. Thus, the left was expecting the Bush administration to put-up, or shut up. Nobody expected it because it was BS fed to the public to quell questions about the cost of an Iraq invasion. But it wasn't an idea planted by the left, it came from the Bush admin.
Additionally, why would "the left", who's priorities lie more towards development of alternative fuels and increased independance from oil (not just from the middle east) be complaining to Obama about the price of gas? If anything, the "left" is saying to those who DO complain "I told you so", and "This is just ANOTHER reason we need to be developing alternative energy sources". DUH!
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Gee, let's see---OH!!! How about nuclear? Oh, that's right! We had it. And then all the libtards said that they were SOOOOOO SSSCCARED of nuclear and agitated until most of the installations were mothballed.
KS
KS
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
I find it hillariously funny how Obama gets blamed for everything, but Bush was a saint, the oil prices have gone up because of wall street speculators that essentially place bets that oil is gonna get expensive because.....any excuse will do for these bastards,wether it's hurricanes off the coast of Florida,screw you pay, the riots in egypt, screw you pay,Lybia, screw you pay,When there's nothing, then it's because the plant is down for maintenance and so on.
Waiting for the Evangelical right to blame the disaster in Japan on Obama, the muslim mao mao whitey hating Godzilla lover.
Waiting for the Evangelical right to blame the disaster in Japan on Obama, the muslim mao mao whitey hating Godzilla lover.
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
Hey they're just carrying on with Raegan's dream to get to point where there no more , you know, the messiah.
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
Yeah, I'm glad there's no offshore drilling in Florida, that's also the only great thing the Republican controlled state has agreed with Obama on. After the BP/ Halliburton disaster we had here, i really don't blame them.
More offshore drilling will only bring the bastards more profit since they'll continue to charge as they wish. Look up the big oil companies reportings on profits every QTR, that's not from lack of oil, thats due to wall street speculators pushing the prices up, and since ALL politicians receive $$$ from them, they look the other way, after all we pay for their gas.
Yes because the market doesn't in any way determine prices.
The most politically effective totalitarian systems have gotten people to give up their own freedom in order to vent their resentment or hatred at other people -- under Communism, the capitalists; under Nazi, the Jews
-Thomas Sowell
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
Yes because the market doesn't in any way determine prices.
The most politically effective totalitarian systems have gotten people to give up their own freedom in order to vent their resentment or hatred at other people -- under Communism, the capitalists; under Nazi, the Jews
-Thomas Sowell
Here you go, this was in 2008 as reported by FOX news, so you should have no problems believing this http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,364846,00.html
Obama is an intellectual but lacks the balls Bush had to do what he did.
He wants to be loved, instead of being feared and respected which is better.
Other than sneaking through Obamacare he's been weak as a democrat in pushing his policies and not hitting back on charges the stimulus was a failure and so on...
He wants to be loved, instead of being feared and respected which is better.
Other than sneaking through Obamacare he's been weak as a democrat in pushing his policies and not hitting back on charges the stimulus was a failure and so on...
The oil companies were not behind the rise merely along for the market ride so there was a reason for their profits which then could not be characterized as "unreasonable" (without explanation)
And why only the 5 biggest and how do you define the unreasonable in a live market.
It sounds easy but is extremely complicated.
These oil companies also supply the ingredients of all other things made from crude oil from asphalt through plastics polymers and chemicals and other fuels for industry the price of which would go up by hamhanded government taxing of the market.
The speculators were choking the supply while the demand was strong thus pushing up the price.
This was an artificial condition which could not last and collapsed after 6 months.
The current highs are fear over Libya (Lybia
Labia) and the unrest in Saudi Arabia so prices will stay high until there is some resolution there.How is that even relevant to the point I made?
Are you advocating the absurd notion of taxing oil companies to reduce prices?
You might want to actually take the time to learn basic economics before you start trying to point fingers and condescend to others. Otherwise you simply show yourself to be an ignorant buffoon.
Simply put, if your argument does not conform with the laws of supply and demand, it is nothing but fantasy.
Might as well say we can fix our economic downturn with fairy dust and unicorns.
shagdrum: Ummm yeah, said that
Again
Is this another of your incoherent tantrums?
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
The problem is, Obama is painted as a far left communist and so on, the reality is Obama is neither left or right, he's CENTER leaning left, which in govt, the president is and should be center, like the supreme court should be and is not. After all, he represents all Americans, not just Dems or Reps. With that said, feared and respected is what Saddam was by his people, with Bush it was more like special needs and sad.
George Bush Sr. was not feared but he was respected which allowed us to visit other countries without having to wear Canadian flags on backpacks for our own safety, unlike under Jr. But speaking of respect, I remember when the dixie chicks said something about Jr. and were almost linched by the right; Obama on the other hand, it's OK to talk down and lie about our own president? disrespect him is the same as disrespecting the flag he represents.
Stop being sore losers and let the next election decide.
:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:
What defines "left", "right", "conservative", "liberal", "socialist" or "communist"? By what standard do you come to the conclusion that Obama is "center leaning left".
It is clear that you are functioning under a simplistic, false stereotype of conservatives. Have you ever even picked up a book on political philosophy and/or political thought? Do you have ANY knowledge by which to make any such determination, or are you simply spouting talking point that you uncritically accept because they appeal to you?
I am willing to bet it's the latter.
Bush was feared because of Iraq and respected by the religious people.
I thought he was a goof despite supposedly having a 135 IQ which kind of confirms my father's observation that a human being is a contradiction LOL!
but his tax cuts came along at the right time for me and have allowed me to fund more growth of my company than otherwise.
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
How is that even relevant to the point I made?
Are you advocating the absurd notion of taxing oil companies to reduce prices?
You might want to actually take the time to learn basic economics before you start trying to point fingers and condescend to others. Otherwise you simply show yourself to be an ignorant buffoon.
Simply put, if your argument does not conform with the laws of supply and demand, it is nothing but fantasy.
Might as well say we can fix our economic downturn with fairy dust and unicorns.
Again
Is this another of your incoherent tantrums?
I have come to realize, that you may be able to type, but you must not be able to read, put down the dragon speaks and READ.
The questions are: WHY are we paying so much for oil when the oil companies are raking in astronomical profits? WHY aren't speculators regulated or limited? WHY are we giving them massive tax breaks when they are in no need of them? Why are Republicans so eager to blockade any bill that taxes massive profits when so many are hurting? WHY are you blind and not on a short bus? WHY do you not see the problem in the economy does not require schools to be cut, IN FACT, it's lack of R-E-V-E-N-U-E or collection thereof========stand by for it========= TAXES!!!! SIMPLIFIED= No money coming in, economy go bad.
It is safe to say that I have forgotten more political and economic thought then you have ever been exposed to.
But if you feel the need to falsely stereotype me, feel free. Keep in mind that you only undercut your own credibility here by doing so.
These are only relevant "questions" if you have no understanding of economics.
Unfortunately, as you have already proven countless times on this forum, any attempt to explain it to you will simply be rejected out of hand if it doesn't conform to your ignorant preconceived notions.
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
Well it seems to me maybe you should read what defines what because while you were wrapped up on looking up big words "sesame street for dummies" the Evangelist slipped in your back door and has taken over the "right".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent_University
http://www.boston.com/news/educatio...dal_puts_spotlight_on_christian_law_school/:D
Again, how is that even a response to what I said?
Are you simply going to continue to try and stereotype me and conservatism in general?
Is it that scary to even consider the possibility that your preconceived notions might be wrong?
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
Well, since you have to be spoon fed, here comes the choo choo......
Obama is "center left" because, and I quote::::
"The main ideologies of the centre-left are modern liberalism and social democracy. Throughout the world, the two groups generally support:
A mixed economy consisting of both private enterprise and publicly owned or subsidized programs of education, universal health care, child care and related social services for all citizens.
An extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by socialists), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.
Equal rights and opportunity.
Government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers and consumers by ensuring labor rights (i.e. supporting worker access to trade unions), consumer protections, and fair market competition.
Environmentalism and environmental protection laws; for example, funding for alternative energy resources and laws designed to combat global warming.
A value-added/progressive taxation system to fund government expenditures.
Immigration and multiculturalism.
Fair trade over free trade.
A foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism"
Wikipedia is hardly a credible source when it comes to understanding ideology. If fact that "explanation" does more to blur ideological distinctions then anything else. Most "explanations" of ideology serve to confuse the issue by design.
An ideology is not simply a set of policy positions (which is all the wikipedia link gives). It is a very specific set of philosophical assumptions that create a logically coherent worldview from which policy is derived. Policy only reflects ideology, it does not define it.
Most modern ideologies start from a very basic understanding of human nature and deductively build from there. Modern liberalism and conservatism start with VERY different (and, in many ways, opposing) understandings of human nature.
Instead of cutting and pasting a response, can YOU tell me what defines "liberal"? It is not as hard as you seem to want to make it.
I'll help you out. Ideologies can be broken down into means and ends. Libertarianism, for instance, is essentially laissez faire means toward the end of individual liberty.
ALL ideologies have some overriding value or set of values that serve as that "goal" (it is that "ideal" that makes it an ideology).
What ideologically defines modern liberalism (or Progressivism if you want to call it that)? What makes an ideological point of view "liberal" in the first place? What defines that side of the ideological spectrum?
An ideology is not simply a set of policy positions (which is all the wikipedia link gives). It is a very specific set of philosophical assumptions that create a logically coherent worldview from which policy is derived. Policy only reflects ideology, it does not define it.
Most modern ideologies start from a very basic understanding of human nature and deductively build from there. Modern liberalism and conservatism start with VERY different (and, in many ways, opposing) understandings of human nature.
Instead of cutting and pasting a response, can YOU tell me what defines "liberal"? It is not as hard as you seem to want to make it.
I'll help you out. Ideologies can be broken down into means and ends. Libertarianism, for instance, is essentially laissez faire means toward the end of individual liberty.
ALL ideologies have some overriding value or set of values that serve as that "goal" (it is that "ideal" that makes it an ideology).
What ideologically defines modern liberalism (or Progressivism if you want to call it that)? What makes an ideological point of view "liberal" in the first place? What defines that side of the ideological spectrum?
compshmoe
Well-Known LVC Member
Whenever I make a statement, you automatically say it's my view; therefore I copied and pasted a non-partisan explanation of center right: if you don't like it, that's your problem, but don't ask for answers then say you haven't received them.
Whenever I make a statement, you automatically say it's my view; therefore I copied and pasted a non-partisan explanation of center right: if you don't like it, that's your problem, but don't ask for answers then say you haven't received them.
Wikipedia is hardly "non-partisan". In fact, it tends to be rather liberal in is moderating.
If you don't know what ideologically defines modern liberalism, socialism and communism, then how can you claim with any authority that Obama is "center-left"?
It is critical to know how things work in order to make sense of them. This applies to economic and political thought as well. Without that knowledge, it is very easy to be mislead by the emotionally appealing rhetoric and partisan narratives that dominate the news.
Unfortunately, gaining that knowledge necessitates critically examining your own preconceived notions and it is very hard for many people to humble themselves enough to do that.