electrical/starting issues... beyond me

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06blackls

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I hate to bring up similar threads in a new one, however, the one i was reading ended with no solution and the OP had left.

HOWEVER.... I've been having electrical issues with my 2006. The battery would die after about 10 minutes of leaving the trunk up or the interior lights on. So my options were a new battery or alternator. Since it didnt seem to die while driving (no matter what length of time.. 5min or 2 hours), i decided to replace the battery. My brother works for a GM dealer so i get parts for cost, however, the replacement battery was an ACdelco. Reguardless, it seemed to fix the issue for about two or three months with absolutely no problems. Then, beginning of this week I went to start my car and got absolutely nothing. All the accessories were just fine. nothing was dull. So i got a jump and it worked just fine. So i took it home, turned it off, and then tried starting it again, got absolutely nothing...

I then charged the battery and it started right up.. SO then i was thinking alternator, however, i let the car run for an hour and did some simply volt meter tests and it SEEMED to be ok.

Meanwhile, I was noticing that my trunk would just randomly pop up. even with keys nowhere in sight and my locks were not opening all the way upon hitting the unlock button.

This is where it gets weird. Yesterday, car was running and starting fine..until i put something in the trunk, then i had nothing... So i thought for some odd reason maybe it has somehitng to do with that (thought ive never heard of anything like this). But sure enough i hit the trunk button, and messed with the latch several times, and the CAR STARTED. This happened twice yesterday with the same results. However, today the same thing happened, so i messed with the trunk latch a few different times and got nothing.. Wiggled the battery terminals (which are tight), and messed with the trunk one last time before asking for a jump, and it started.

however, i drove it back to work and now it wont start........ It's way beyond me. My brother is getting me a replacement battery just to make sure its that but im thinking somehting electrical.. or maybe the ACdelco battery just isnt enough for these power hungry cars....

Please HELP!!!!!
 
update... just went to start the car after posting this... and it started right up! lol ohhh the life of a LS owner.
 
I'd wait to see if the new battery fixes it... But check all connections on the fuses and block (if you havent already). Also but your back seat down and make sure the trunk switch is working properly.. a faulty alt. will wear a battery out over time, Then these cars get finiky when the batteries start to fail... you may want to put a volt meter on the car for a while to check charging while you drive... The parts store alt tests will not catch a failing alt, so dont trust their results...

make sure that new battery is vented!!
 
You have a bad electrical connection somewhere. The relays and relay sockets in the trunk are a good suspect.

Was your last battery connected to the external vent tube? Is the new one? If the battery is not externally vented, the corrosive gas venting will do a lot of damage to the electrical parts in the trunk (and to the spare tire). Of course, there's the whole explosive hydrogen gas in the cabin thing too.

Also, get a cheap voltmeter that plugs into the lighter socket and leave it in all the time you are driving. If the voltage ever dips below 13.6 or above 14.4 while driving, you have a charging system problem.

Still, I'd bet on an electrical contact problem, either a loose cable or loose/corroded contact in the electrical distribution and relay center in the trunk.
 
Update from the side of the road.... as i was driving home tonight my ABS light, TCS light, Battery light came on and the command center said "check charging system." Then the radio went off and the interior lights went dim as well as the headlights which were essentially non-existent.. So I am assuming it really was the alternator?????

Atleast i actually have time to sit here and think about it while i wait for my buddy with the trailer.... lol
 
Could be the alternator; could be a parasitic drain killing the battery. I've had an intermittent drain on both '06s. I replaced the relays for the PCM and starter and all's been well since. I'm believe the relays were hanging open (even possible?) causing current draw even when the unit was shut down (again, possible?). If so, Ford must have received a bad batch of relays; then again wouldn't the others be bad also?
 
Isn't there a ground in the trunk? I seem to remember reading another member had similar issues and it turned out that it was not tight, once it was tightened up everything was fine...

Update, I just looked at the shop manual on this link http://deneau.info/ls/ and yes there is a battery ground cable that grounds to the body in the trunk, I would start there, here's a picture:

s6x~us~en~file=n0002936.gif~gen~ref.gif
 
Sorry to take so long to respond with an update. However I did end up getting a vented Motorcaft battery and seems to have fixed the issue. I left it running with a volt meter on the battery for about half an hour, turning all the lights and electronics on and testing again. Seems to be staying right at 14.25 volts, so I will keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the help!
 
Yet another update on this issue. Ive been battling this for quite some time now. After i replaced the AcDelco battery with the motorcraft it ran fine for a couple of days, then the problem occured again. One second it would start and run fine and the next i would it would not. All of the accessory lights work when the key is turned, its just when i move it to the run position that i get absolutely nothing! So we started testing wires fromt he starter to the starter relay and everything was testing fine.

I cleaned the power wire to the starter (there was definately corrosion) and addressed the connection in the passenger fender well (which also seemed fine). I continued to drive it for a couple of days with no issue at all.

It happened again after that, so i decided to replace the starter. Again, it ran fine for about a week and now its doing the same thing. Clearly none of these things have addressed the problem. I will say that we could duplicate the problem when unplugging the connection in the passenger fenderwell. However, once plugging it back it it would start just fine.

Im out of ideas and options with this issue and thing i am going to have to resort to a dealer. Does anyone have any last minute ideas that i could check before doing this?

Thanks for your help!
 
06blackls said:
Yet another update on this issue. Ive been battling this for quite some time now. After i replaced the AcDelco battery with the motorcraft it ran fine for a couple of days, then the problem occured again. One second it would start and run fine and the next i would it would not. All of the accessory lights work when the key is turned, its just when i move it to the run position that i get absolutely nothing! So we started testing wires fromt he starter to the starter relay and everything was testing fine.

I cleaned the power wire to the starter (there was definately corrosion) and addressed the connection in the passenger fender well (which also seemed fine). I continued to drive it for a couple of days with no issue at all.

It happened again after that, so i decided to replace the starter. Again, it ran fine for about a week and now its doing the same thing. Clearly none of these things have addressed the problem. I will say that we could duplicate the problem when unplugging the connection in the passenger fenderwell. However, once plugging it back it it would start just fine.

Im out of ideas and options with this issue and thing i am going to have to resort to a dealer. Does anyone have any last minute ideas that i could check before doing this?

Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...

Bad starter relay? Bad PCM relay? Since you are pretty much already throwing parts at it these are pretty inexpensive.
 
I went to the dealership and got some relays. The parts guy was telling me they've had five or six LS's in this year with similar issues that either needed a new ecu or some kind of computer reset. Which made me think about the SCT tune that I have in it. He suggested that something in the tune may have messed up when I was having the battery issues. So I went home and tried the new relays and got no change. Figured I had nothing to lose so I loaded the stock tune back in it and she started right up. I have heard about cars having problems like this and reloading the tune fixed them. Again I'll drive it around and hope this was the problem.
 
try pulling the relay for the horn & heated wipers if it only happens when its cold. heated wipers are one of the larger parasites..
 
parasite = parasitic drain
probably not an issue for you, but the wipers are heated to avoid sticking to the windshield and can wear your battery down when its cold. does this answer your 14 question marks?

i dont think thats his issue though. sounds like a bad alternator to me, but without looking at it.. we are all guessing
 
06blackls said:
I will say that we could duplicate the problem when unplugging the connection in the passenger fenderwell. However, once plugging it back it it would start just fine.
Click to expand...

If you can duplicate the issue by unplugging the ground to the fenderwell, and then plug it in and it starts fine, it seems like the battery isn't the issue, if it was discharged too much it wouldn't have enough power to start anyways. My guess is some sort of relay or switch causing issues. I had an issue like this on my old Ranger and it turned out to be the ignition cylinder going bad, I'm not saying that's what it is but rather pointing out that there are still many suspects.

Also, have you examined the cables closely, checked for areas where the conduit might have been rubbed through or cut through either on the positive or negative side?

Just throwing some ideas out there...
 
I just read where you loaded back the stock tune, didn't see it before. Hope it works, and I hope you can get the tune fixed if it did work...
 
jrand said:
parasite = parasitic drain
probably not an issue for you, but the wipers are heated to avoid sticking to the windshield and can wear your battery down when its cold. does this answer your 14 question marks?

i dont think thats his issue though. sounds like a bad alternator to me, but without looking at it.. we are all guessing
Click to expand...

I know what a parasitic drain is. Parasitic drains also only happen when the charging system isn't engaged. My question was why it would be. They don't energize until the temp is under ~40º and can be de-energized on the '00-'02 with a switch. They consume very little power. It's not like the rear defroster....

I guess the relay could be bad...
 
LS4me said:
I know what a parasitic drain is. Parasitic drains also only happen when the charging system isn't engaged. My question was why it would be. They don't energize until the temp is under ~40º and can be de-energized on the '00-'02 with a switch. They consume very little power. It's not like the rear defroster....

I guess the relay could be bad...
Click to expand...

I'll add a minor point...

The wipers are not heated. The area of the windshield that they park over is heated. I too see no reason to suspect the heated parks as a parasitic load problem over almost any of the other hundred possible loads. Also, they aren't powered when the ignition is off. At least two relays would have to short closed for that to happen.
 
UPDATE: Since re-loading the stock tune, the car has run fine until about a week ago. My girlfriends car had broke down and I went to pick her up. went to start the car to leave, and it did the same thing. sure enough...when i went to start it, the problem duplicated again. So i loaded the SCT tune back in the car and it started right up. Then today, drove the car approx. 50 miles, everything seemed fine, got in the car and wouldnt start again. Tried loading the tune in it and this time it will not start. I tried it four different times with. Twice with stock tune and twice with SCT tune and it still will not start. The car has plenty of power, just when i turn the key, absolutely nothng happens. Could the ECU be bad? not wanting to hold any kind of program?

Thoughts please!
 
Ill bite....your alternator or your battery is KIA, or both, and/or there is a drain somewhere. I'd get off the "tuner issue" train and do a parasitic test as jrand or whoever suggested.

It's easy....disconnect battery negative terminal and set a digital amp/voltage tester to DC amps (Don't foget to put probe connections in amp mode!!!) set it a 50 milli amp. Get some alligator clips and clip one probe to the NEG wire connector and the other to the NEG battery post. If it reads higher than 50 - something is sucking your battery dry. One by one, pull all the fuses until you find the one that makes the amps drop below the 50 value. There's your parasitic draw.. either fix the electrical element that's causing it or, if its not important (parked wiper heaters) leave it unplugged until you decide to fix it.

The LS may draw over 35 Milli for the computers and such but 50 is always a safe bet.

Also, another member can chime in about this but I believe the GenIIs may have had an issue with the passenger side wiring harness by the headlights and fender getting wet and grounding....may be worth a look after your tests.

Oh, and replace battery and alternator in pairs....myself and I'm sure many others learned this the hard way. Good luck, keep us posted
 
Thanks Broseph,
So i disconnected the positive side of the battery and let it sit, put it back on 15minutes later and let the car sit over night. Then the next morning it started right up. So i decided to take it for drive into town. About half way into town i hit the "status" button to run the system checks and the command center literally showed a "jibberish" language (not english, french or spanish) that made no sense. Literally all kinds of different symbols shapes and letters. Other than that everything seemed normal for the first 5 or 10 minutes. After that, when i put my foot on the brake to stop, the TCS light, brake light, and other lights came on. Again, this was ONLY when my foot was on the brake. If i took it off, the light went off. So i decided that i was tired of messing with it and kept going to the local ford dealership, when i got there, the lights started flickering as well as the heat shutting on and off. Immediatly i turned the car off, then tried to turn it back on and got nothing again.

15 minutes later when the techs went out to pull it in, the car started right up and they drove it into the shop. they did some initial tests and found that the brand new motorcraft, vented battery only showed 241 CCA's. It was under warranty, but they had to order it and they would have it first thing this morning.
 
So when i installed the previous motorcraft battery, i broke the battery hold-down when i was taking that off to replace it. Resulting in the new battery not sitting back in its place correctly and was sitting at a slight angle. the dealership thinks that since it was sitting at an angle, that it was enough to ruin the battery and cause these problems. they did do a load test on the alternator and checked the charging system and said everything was fine. After re-setting everything and all of the voltage codes, the "jibberish" language in the control center has gone away. They are letting me take the car and drive it around for a few days to make sure it fixes it before we settle up. but that is where the saga sits.
 
The battery sitting at a slight angle probably did not harm it, as long as it was very slight. The battery being loose where it could bounce around just a little bit would add a lot of extra mechanical shock to the battery and very likely would greatly shorten its life.
 
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