Engine rattles on startup

Telco said:
Thanks, that makes two of us!

Say, how desperate are you for me to dump it? 10 grand American as is, you can have it right now and I'll depart immediately. :p I'll even deliver it to Georgia wherever you drop stuff off after the check clears and help you load it on your tractor for the trip to Canada.
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Telco said:
Gee, no offers from BigRig to buy my LS so I'll leave. Guess he loves me after all. Awww...
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Oh, now I see what you were talking about, missed this one ~ Sorry I was "embedded" in the US somewhere doing the old steering wheel holding trick.

Telco, I didn't want, didn't suggest, didn't respond to any of your LS for sale ads because honestly I am not nor would be interested.

GLWS though, hate to see a guy stuck with something he doesn't want. You'll find a buyer, just gotta try harder.
 
kinda hard to find some one that wants to buy a car from you when all you do is talk about how bad it is.
 
Those scrapper guys that'll pick up your car for 300$ don't care how much smack you talk about the car, they just want it for parts and metal. They'd take it off his hands no questions.
 
I'm not worried about selling it, in fact I don't think I'll have any problem at all selling it off.

04Sport, out of deference for the LS fanboys I'm not going to go into my issues with the LS suspension. Your mileage is pretty good on your car though, mine sees 19 city (so I see 19 regardless since 99 percent of my driving is city right now) and 24 highway. On the highway I typically run along around 80MPH or so, which puts me just a hair faster than other traffic but not so fast that I can't drop into the herd when the detector goes off. I have whatever is the stock rear gears for a 2003 V8. Wasn't really dinging on the LS mileage though, was discussing engine swap possibilities. 30-35MPG, possibly better, is what I think would be possible for the LS with a Chevy L86/8 speed auto. With that same engine, it would also be considerably faster than with the stock setup.

So far as my dislike of the car, that's just a personal preference thing. It's like food, there's just some food you'll never like no matter how it's prepared. To me, driving the LS is like sitting down to a big steaming hot plate of Brussels sprouts. I'm sure there's folks out there who like them, but I don't. Best at this point to just leave it at that.
 
Loud,

You may have see this page before,,, but if not it give some good info on what foundation to put your Eaton on.

http://www.sullivanperformance.com/yvs450/tech/tech1.htm

Telco,

I'll give you the fact that a GM transplant would be an interesting conversion... but I like a more "stock" look. First choice for me would probably be the FRPP 350HP 3V "hotrod" 4.6,,, but I can't see dropping $7k in just an engine even thought the 3V might fit better in the LS. On top of that, I would like to build a torque motor out of the 4.6 4V,,, thus the idea on the Aviator, Mach, Marauder version. I think it would be possible, (with the right cams), to see 35mpg out of a N/A 4.6 4V... while still having over 300hp,,, and be in the torque band sooner than the 3.9's 2000 rpm.



Maybe the 3.5 Ecoboost would be the best solution for the LS,,, but I don't see getting an EEC-VI/EEC-VII CAN system to work on an EEC-V vehicle. Comperable to tyring to mate a Dual Core i7 chip into a Pentium 3 motherboard. Sparks and smoke. ;-0
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Maybe the 3.5 Ecoboost would be the best solution for the LS,,, but I don't see getting an EEC-VI/EEC-VII CAN system to work on an EEC-V vehicle. Comperable to tyring to mate a Dual Core i7 chip into a Pentium 3 motherboard. Sparks and smoke. ;-0
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when you were looking at the 3.5 dimensions to determine if it would fit, were you just looking at the width at the valve covers, or were you looking at the width at including the snails? that would probably be my major concern, there really wouldn't be any problem getting the engine itself to fit at V6's are a tad bit narrower than the V8's but I wonder how much room there is lower where the exhaust would be? I know it would be damn tight, that's for sure... and i really wouldn't want to deal with making new custom headers and trying to find space for the snails, but they are pretty small so it might be (reasonably) easier to get them to fit just a little farther down where the cats would normally reside.

at this point, I almost thing it might be better going with the new 2.3 baby boost, especially seeing shops are getting over 500hp out of stock blocks with them! definitely shouldn't have any problems getting that to fit, and the weight savings would also be very nice!
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Loud,

You may have see this page before,,, but if not it give some good info on what foundation to put your Eaton on.

http://www.sullivanperformance.com/yvs450/tech/tech1.htm

Telco,

I'll give you the fact that a GM transplant would be an interesting conversion... but I like a more "stock" look. First choice for me would probably be the FRPP 350HP 3V "hotrod" 4.6,,, but I can't see dropping $7k in just an engine even thought the 3V might fit better in the LS. On top of that, I would like to build a torque motor out of the 4.6 4V,,, thus the idea on the Aviator, Mach, Marauder version. I think it would be possible, (with the right cams), to see 35mpg out of a N/A 4.6 4V... while still having over 300hp,,, and be in the torque band sooner than the 3.9's 2000 rpm.



Maybe the 3.5 Ecoboost would be the best solution for the LS,,, but I don't see getting an EEC-VI/EEC-VII CAN system to work on an EEC-V vehicle. Comperable to tyring to mate a Dual Core i7 chip into a Pentium 3 motherboard. Sparks and smoke. ;-0
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Wouldn't be anything wrong with using a Ford engine, I'm just more comfortable with Chevy engines plus I already have EFI Live so I'd be able to completely program the new engine. A Marauder 4.6 would be pretty nice in there though.
 
And that was pretty much my suggestion in the first post where I mentioned the 4.6 as a better enigine for the LS, (without having to deal with VVT/VCT). I have mentioned the Aviator version mostly because I think it would be easier to find a low milage version of that engine in a boneyard,,, at considerably less cost than a boneyard Marauder or Mach 1, (even with additional cash outlay for Mach/Marauder intake and other misc parts).

When the car in my sig went Bye-Bye... I was looking at Marauders. I actually wanted one before that, (I used to drool on the 2004 Marauder brochure). The reasonably price ones had been beat to death,,, or had high miles. The low milage or customized ones... were over double the cost of what I paid for my LS. But at the same time I always had a soft spot for the LS. I'll admit... the LS isn't perfect,,, but I can't complain too much. I'ts been fun reliable transportation for me, (so far... with 140K on the clock). Granted... typical coil, cooling system, brakes, center driveshaft support, and minor suspension issues... but really no worse than some other vehicles, (barring the startup rattle, and possibly some piston slap).

Anyway...

I somehow saved the 302 LS conversion from LVC. When I bookmarked it,,, it was on page 8, but has grown since then. This was about the time I joined this forum. You'll see... that some of what we have been discussing,,, is already old news.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?79118-Lincoln-LS-302/page8

Loud,

As far as the 3.5 Ecoboost. When I was doing some research on the LS cam phasers,,, and engines that wwould fit the LS... I found a web page that suggested a few engines for the LS. Some that seemed very oddball. The guy seemed to have done his reasearch,,, and considered fully assembled engines ,,, which would include the twin screw exhaust. When I was at a Ford dealer recently... picking up parts for a different project,,, I popped the hood on a new F150 that had the 3.5 in it. I was curious about the exhaust, same as you. The manifolds are tucked up under the heads,,, and the turbos seem very small, (compared to what I am used to seeing). From my perspective, (without a tape measure), the 3.5 is a "drop in" engine for the LS. I will admit however,,, that I didn't crawl underneath the F150 and take a "bottom up" look. Also... "drop in", doesn't mean "plug and play".

Interestingly,,, this has also been discussed before on LVC,,, but not with the 3.5.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?81831-engines-that-fit

I tried to duplicate my search that provided me a link to the guy who said the 3.5 would fit... and have been unable to find it. One thing about the 3.5 I don't like. It has VVT/VCT which means cam phasers. Unless Ford has fixed the issue with the 3.9 and 5.4... I'm not sure I want another VVT engine.

I did however re-find these links: Some on this forum may recognize "Quick's" vehicle, ( a member on this forum). Telco, you may appreciate the link at the bottom for an LS1 LS.

http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/?p=10971

Second: This one points to what I previously mentioned as a "One day race", but was actually a "One Lap Race". Either way,,, the 4.6 fits fine... and shouldn't overheat unless you throw a supercharger on it.

http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/?p=787&

Getting late and gotta go.
 
yeah, with so few Marauder and Mach 1s being made, finding a motor out of one will probable come at a premium... at that point, might as well just go for a fully built terminator from a 03/04 cobra only...

if a regular N/A or light build is what you had in mind, then an aviator or Mark would probably be you better (value) option. just dont use the truck intake... probably have to custom make your own headers to fit in good and not get in the way of the steering or anything else.
 
If you really want a Marauder, you can make your own out of a Grand Marquis which are a dime a dozen. This article goes over the differences between the two. On the engine, the main difference between the regular 4.6 and the Marauder 4.6 is the heads. Actually, not a bad idea when you think about it.
 
it simply is really is just a hot rod crown vic, put in the right motor and your most of the way there...

however, another huge part of whats makes a marauder so damn cool it its mean look, and all the differences from the base GM or CV...
 
Loud,

Yes... N/A mild build, (proper intake, cams, larger TB), with an oil pan that would fit the LS. With the right cams,,, I think 350/350 and 30mpg+ is possible. Tranny swap is a must because of different bellhousing patterns.

Before anyone laughs at that idea... A few years back I went to sunny San Diego, CA to visit my siter and B-I-L. During the trip,,, we went to a 1/8th mile drag strip in Barona.

http://www.baronadrags.com/

For the "test and tune" entry fee,,, I though about running my LS just for kicks. Lots of very nice cars there,,, including a right hand drive Super Beetle straight from England, (including the driver)... which rolled in the last race of the night, (thankfully the driver was fine).

Anyway... during the perusing of the cars... I ended up talking to a guy that had a "split window" Corvette with a 427 in it. As we talked about his engine mods,,, he had special ground camshafts made by a popular manufacturer, (I forget who)... and on top of doing well at the drag strip,,, was getting mid 20's mpg crusing on the highway. Dammit I hate "oldtimers". I was familiar with the cam grind back then,,, but can't think of the terminology now. Whatever it was,,, is the grind I would use in the 4.6.

Telco and Loud,

Yeah I still miss my "lead sled", and was actually considering dropping a Cobra or Mach engine in it. Granted there are alot of CV's and GM's out there,,, but mine had the HPP package... and those out there are rare, (especially the LSE's and Vic Sports),,, and are in the same categories as the Marauder, (price and/or condition). What I had... was actually the predecessor of the Marauder... and with the engine transplant I was going to add the police airbox, matrix driveshaft and police tranny tailshaft,,, along with a Torsen diff in the rear and police suspension mods... plus a few parts from here:

http://www.adtr.net/store/index.php?route=common/home Sorry about the "flashy" main page. That wasn't there the last time I visited.

Alas,,, it never happened... and while I was in CA I almost bought a similar year IRS Thunderbird with plans to do the same. Unfortunately the deal on the Thunderbird fell through. So now I have the LS,,, and consider the possibilites... but at the same time think about a TRUE "lead sled" and look at 49 Ford's.

In the long scheme of things,,, I have other more important things in life to deal with... so maybe down the road, (pun intended), I will be able to build some sort of custom cruiser.
 
my wife laughs at me, cause for the longest time, I've wanted a Marauder in state cop blue, and cop wheels, maybe with a search light!
 
Loud,

Believe it or not,,, from a dealer buddy of mine... supposedly the only difference between a standard Panther body and a police version, (engine performance wise) is the ECM, (beyond the silicone hoses, airbox/maf, and 24 lb injectors). I was told that if I could obtain a VIN from a cop car, (State Highway Patrol preferably),,, that my ECM could have been flashed to their specs.

In my previous life as a professional mechanic,,, I had the priviledge of driving a couple of cop cars. It's interesting when you take some back country curves,,, and think to yourself, "this car is a dog and doesn't handle for squat"... then look down at the speedo and see how fast you are actually going. The suspensions on those cars are very misleading. The "flat" handling doesn't give you the reality of the torque those engines are actually putting out.

Telco,

Thanks for the link to the Marauder. I enjoyed it very much. I remeber the Marauders from the late 60's/early 70's (dating myself a little). At the same time I have to agree with the writers of the article,,, about the Marauder not being as good as the Impala SS in some aspects. But then again,,, the comparison is between a 4.6 and a 5.7. I will admit that Ford once again missed the mark for what the Marauder "could have been". If Ford had wanted to truely make a performance luxury sedan,,, they should have stuck the 5.4 DOHC 4V Cobra R engine down in it. That would have put the Impala SS in the dust, (and maybe a few Vettes of the day).

Hmmm... now I'm thinking stock 4.6 DOHC in the LS as a daily driver... and buying a cop car for $5k,,, and putting an unobtanium $xxK Cobra R engine to drop in the cop car. Are you drooling yet Loud??? Talk about a "sleeper"!!!

So how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop??? Once again... the world may never know. (dating myself again)
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Are you drooling yet Loud???
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you know it! lol

I almost bough a Navi 5.4 for a few hundred bucks from a junk yard a friend of mine works at a couple of months ago... even though I don't have anything it would fit in to, hell sooner or later if you have a sweet motor sitting around, it usually find its way into something!! Shelby takeoff blowers can usually be found fairly cheap, however the lower intake and heat exchangers are a little harder to find (well with out costing a lot more that I would have even paid for the motor) throw a little less pulley to it and should be fun in just about anything!!
 
90 percent of a Grand Marquis is also a Marauder, so to get the look you'd just need a few pieces and the correct black paint. It's still doable, with the extra bonus of it showing up to the insurance company as a sedate Grand Marquis.

Next year I'll be in my house and will be putting up a garage, at that time I hope to start a new project for a weekend cruiser. Thinking about looking for another 1972 Buick Skylark, which was my first car, only this time it'll be built by someone who knows what they're doing instead of by a 16 year old kid who doesn't have a clue. I'll have to finish my 70 Chevelle SS 396 first though, and get it sold. I like the Chevelle well enough, but it's a numbers matching model and I wouldn't feel right about hacking it up to make the car I really want. I've also been thinking about picking up a wedge Fiero and sticking about a thousand horses behind the driver's seat. Heh heh heh...
 
Loud,

State cop blue eh? You gonna plant the big red bubble in the center of the roof too??? lol

Years ago I had a 74 Charger, with just a 318 in it. I rebuilt and overbuilt the suspension,,, and added HD torsion bars and leaf springs. The original plan was to drop a 440 in it and have some fun. Instead... I found a 1950's 354 Hemi and had that gone through top to bottom. (close to 500hp when done) The idea at that point was to get sponsorship and go oval track. Things were starting to fall in place... when the Charger was stolen before I could do the engine transplant. I held onto that engine for years.

Then came life, and wife, and child... and eventually upsizing the house. I was working 60 hours a week at the time, and building a new house. I was only getting 3 hours sleep a night while working on the house, (plumbing and electrical). When we sold our old house... I left the 354 engine behind,,, along with a few grand in Mopar parts. (including balanced and bronze bushed crank and rods from a 413 Chrysler). The guy I got the 413 stuff from also had a complete 1960's Hilborn fuel injection setup, (which I never acquired), that was going to end up on the 440.

Telco,

My first car was a 73 Ford Maverick with a 302 and 4 wheel drums. Went like hell and stopped like sh!t. Very fun car if you kept it under 100. Surprised many Camaros and Trans Ams in the day. Light to light,,, I had them. Long haul... they would eventually pull away. Handling wasn't very good,,, and eventually put a horseshoe shape behind the drivers door on a sharp turn. Eventually sold the car to a guy that wanted the engine.



Funny story about the Maverick,,, and me being a stupid cocky teen. I went to take my drivers test in that car... and all was going well through the safety check,,, until I fired it up and the glasspacks cackled. When the tester walked behind the car and looked underneath,,, she asked me "Where's the exhaust?" ,,, ... I said "Under the car." and instantly failed. I had to borrow my mom's car to take my drivers test.
 
The 81 Dodge Mirada is another story. With a "healthy" 318 and a 4.10 posi,,, it would pull the front wheels at a stoplight. Unfortunately... with only a top speed of 95,,, the engine eventually torched.

I'd love to do another GM/CV. The best version was the "pre Marauder" with the HPP, (handling and performance package), or LSE/CV Sport. The rear air ride and 3.55s were best for this car, while doing police mods to the rest of the supension and driveline. The 5.4 DOHC is the ideal engine... either N/A with mods,,, or supercharging stock engine. I probably wouldn't do the blower,,, but instead a Paxton or similar. Might do 3.73's also

I was going to do a Paxton on my 95 F150, but since mine uses a "speed density" system instead of MAF,,, the electronics wouldn't adapt.
 
Punching the gas pedal at 55 on a rainy day,,, the car in my sig would break the rear wheels loose at 70. Going sideways at 70 is interesting. Being in a power slide at 100 with the steering wheel at full lock is when you start to pray. Looking up from your cell phone at 60,,, and seeing that you are going into a 25mph curve... is when you don'y have time to pray.

5 years ago yesterday (07/02)... I was hanging upside down from my seat belt, (unconscious), at about 10pm. Gives me something to think about. Where's LS4me,,, when I could actaully have a good conversation with him. I am a walking miracle... several times over.
 
Got my Blackstone labs oil analysis back.
I've only had my Lincoln for the last 20k miles. It's had the rattle since I purchased it.
Any suggestions on silicon, copper and iron?

oil_anz2.jpg
oil_anz1.jpg

oil_anz1.jpg


oil_anz2.jpg
 
Yes, about that rattle thing...

04_Sport_LS said:
More back on topic...[/url]
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Yes, the topic of startup rattle. I have made the decision to tear the front off and do this. I already have the Christopher eBay "all chains/guides/gaskets" kit from when I though it was tensioner related. Looking to buy the "VCT Units" as listed in the shop manuals. the part number is 6M288 but I couldn't find that number anywhere on the web. Went to a few sites including https://www.bluespringsfordparts.com/2003-lincoln-ls-parts.html and found they use a different schematic than the manuals. Found an oddly described "intake gear from 7/17/00" which just sounded wrong with the part number 2W9Z6256AA. Hmmm. Why wasn't that number in the 3 part user un-friendly Ford shop manual??? Using that number found Tasca listing on FleaBay that sounds better, uses the shop manual diagram and has the proper description.

Gonna buy two of these tonight. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-CAM...-V8-/281779143677?hash=item419b5883fd&vxp=mtr

Oh yeah also need to rent this tool kit, standard is you get it for a few weeks.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LINCOLN-LS-3-9V8-TIMING-ALIGHMENT-TOOL-SET-2000-2006-/370369431909?

You know where I'll be every evening once all this stuff hits the porch. People ask why I spend my time this way.
I say I don't make anything during my off hours.

s-l500.jpg
 
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