Engine rattles on startup

[joegr]

The only thing that throws me off is the fact it won't rattle again till the car sits an hr. Like if I start it up cold. I rattle. Shut it off and start again. No rattle. But if I let car sit (not running) for at least an hr. And the start it up. I rattle.

The starter parts are made out of metal. Metal changes size with temperature. Perhaps the starter gear is sliding easier/better when it is hot.
Anyway, pull the starter out, check for scratches on the starter gear and flex-plate and check how smoothly the gear moves in and out. It should be pretty easy to confirm if this is the problem. Certainly this will be much easier to check than pulling the valve covers and timing cover.

 

[RCodePaul]

It's not the starter

The starter parts are made out of metal. Metal changes size with temperature. Perhaps the starter gear is sliding easier/better when it is hot.
Anyway, pull the starter out, check for scratches on the starter gear and flex-plate and check how smoothly the gear moves in and out. It should be pretty easy to confirm if this is the problem. Certainly this will be much easier to check than pulling the valve covers and timing cover.

It's not the starter unless my original (which bench tested fine and i still have) and the replacement are doing the same thing with no evidence visible on the FW. I figured at 135k miles it was worth throwing a starter at it since I'd already replaced the upper TC tensioners, confirmed it's not anything on the front of the motor driven by the belt, I've changed oil types and filters several times. It seemed so obvious it HAD to be the starter - but it was exactly the same sound after changing the starter.
Mine is EXACTLY as BigWayner describes.

If you change your starter and it goes away BW let me know and I will try a different brand replacement.
Crazy.

 

[Ghost_Ls8]

guess im joining the club on this problem , my 2006 ls started making this noise right when the temperature dropped to 30 degrees , it does sound like beans getting tossed around and then a few seconds later it goes away , now my belted started squeeking again and i recently replaced it , ima have it checked out friday

 

[RCodePaul]

guess im joining the club on this problem , my 2006 ls started making this noise right when the temperature dropped to 30 degrees , it does sound like beans getting tossed around and then a few seconds later it goes away , now my belted started squeeking again and i recently replaced it , ima have it checked out friday

Let us know what you are told. This club seems to be like the Hotel California, you can never leave. I asked some time ago for feedback from someone, anyone who's solved this problem and I am still waiting.
In my case-
Upper timing chain tensioners - no change
Oil weight to heavier and lighter viscosity - no change
Oil filter, three non Fram varieties - no change
Changed alternator (it went bad) - no change
Pulled front accessory belt to see if front of engine accessory - no change
Convinced myself it was absolutely the starter, swapped for new - no change
Aaaaaaagh!!!

 

[joegr]

Let us know what you are told. This club seems to be like the Hotel California, you can never leave. I asked some time ago for feedback from someone, anyone who's solved this problem and I am still waiting.
In my case-
Upper timing chain tensioners - no change
Oil weight to heavier and lighter viscosity - no change
Oil filter, three non Fram varieties - no change
Changed alternator (it went bad) - no change
Pulled front accessory belt to see if front of engine accessory - no change
Convinced myself it was absolutely the starter, swapped for new - no change
Aaaaaaagh!!!

Well, this has little value since I was wrong about the starter, but my next thought would be the torque converter.

 

[bamaboy]

Same cold start racket dealer said chain tensioners

Any luck tracking down the source of the noise? I have the exact same thing and it's only at startup, only for a few seconds. It's not an under load pinging, it is an irregular clatter just at startup.

In my case, I know it's not the alternator because mine went bad and I replaced it but the rattle is still there.

I have same cold start racket my dealer said it was T Chain tensioners and not to worry but it scares me every cold start

 

[Telco]

Simplest way to check the torque converter would be to unbolt it from the flexplate, then slide the TC back on the trans shaft. In the morning, start it and see if it clatters. Pain in the backside, but...

 

[bamaboy]

Mine a 04 Ultimate 98K does exactly the same. By the fact that after they set a hour or 2 they do it again leads me to believe it has to be something oil pressure related . Ina couple of seconds after starting pressure is up and noise is gone,let set long enough for pressure to leak down and its back ! Waiting for one of you Einstiens to tell me what it is LOL

 

[Ghost_Ls8]

Will let you guys know on friday what they tell me, my coworker at carquest says it might be the belt tensioner

 

[joegr]

I promise you that the oil pressure is all gone in seconds, not hours.

 

[BigWayner95]

I agree with joegr. But something is clearly happening here. And we have to find the issue or issues. Before we all suffer from something horrible. This "club" sucks! Why Lol. I rather be in the sexiest LS club!

 

[RCodePaul]

Isn't my belt tensioner

Will let you guys know on friday what they tell me, my coworker at carquest says it might be the belt tensioner

In my case it isn't anything on the front of the engine although I wish it were. That's an easy test. Pull the belt and start 'er up. In my case it rattled exactly as it does on every cold startup.

 

[BigWayner95]

In my case it isn't anything on the front of the engine although I wish it were. That's an easy test. Pull the belt and start 'er up. In my case it rattled exactly as it does on every cold startup.

Well damn...

 

[Telco]

I promise you that the oil pressure is all gone in seconds, not hours.

Oil PRESSURE perhaps, but it does raise an interesting point. Perhaps something in the engine is letting pressure bleed off due to wear, or the oil filter's antidrainback valve are no longer made well enough to keep the pressure up. Thinking back, I've noticed since I last changed my oil and filter that my car does not act up nearly as much as it was before the last oil change. This would imply that I had a defective drainback valve in my last oil filter.

Checked and see that both the 2003 LS V8 and the 2003 Jaguar S-type 4.0L use the same oil filter. I wonder how a factory Jaguar oil filter would do on this problem.

 

[joegr]

AFAIK, there is no anti-drainback valve in our filters. (The valve you see at the bottom of the filter is a bypass valve to let oil around the filter if it becomes too clogged. Dirty oil is better than no oil.) I have looked on the parts diagrams to try and find an anti-drainback valve in the engine or oil filter adapter, but I haven't found it.

 

[Telco]

According to Summit Racing, there is one.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wix-57302/overview/year/2003/make/lincoln/model/ls

 

[joegr]

According to Summit Racing, there is one.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wix-57302/overview/year/2003/make/lincoln/model/ls

That one may, however the Motorcraft one specified by Ford for us does not seem to have one.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acf-fl2021

I don't know how much you can trust Summitracing's pages. They also say the FL-2021 has no bypass valve, but I know that it does. I can tell you that I've looked at the Motorcraft filters and there is a bypass valve, but there is no check valve. You might want to look at the Wix filter to see if there really is a check valve.

 

[LS4me]

I have the same noise, but on my driver's side. I have 2 videos of it. There is no question that the sound is coming from the upper portion of the valve cover area. By holding a screwdriver to the valve cover and listening to it while it is running (the poor man's stethoscope), there is some noise present that you cannot hear on the passenger's side. It is heading to the dealership tonight, but I am almost positive it is a bad timing chain tensioner. My best guess is that the tensioner must have some sort of check valve built into it that is no longer holding.

BTW, this is a 2003 V-8 with about 127k miles on it.

http://youtu.be/zUDN_T0bZfk

http://youtu.be/w-5Or-wzHOs

In my case it isn't anything on the front of the engine although I wish it were. That's an easy test. Pull the belt and start 'er up. In my case it rattled exactly as it does on every cold startup.

Did you guys read this???

 

[bamaboy]

Maybe its a dry start problem then , when I say cold start I don't mean -20 I mean any time car has set long enough to drop below operateing temp too many people with the same exact noise at cold start for some shop or dealer not to be able to say with certainty what it is ! You would think , but I haven't found him yet ! LOL

 

[bamaboy]

The filters for Jag & LS are probably made by same Co. only a few manf.s Napa is made by Wix a FOMOCO filter should be the end of it , it didn't do it when it was new and that's what came on it

 

[mpd4200]

Another knocking LS here. 04 with 172k miles. Don't know how long this has been happening. I purchased the car this way a few months ago (not being informed of the noise) and also came with the extra delayed shift option...
Mine will make the knocking noise for only a few seconds if the vehicle sits for more than a day or two. Temperature does not seem to have an effect on the presence of the noise. Only time seems to affect this.
Anyhow, just adding my comments to add to the pool of info. After reading all 8 pages of this thread I guess I'll not worry about it too much but I would REALLY like to figure it out.
I purchased this car thinking I have limited time remaining on the motor because of the high mileage. I'll either rebuild or replace when the current motor fails.

 

[bamaboy]

Welcome MPD 4200

Another knocking LS here. 04 with 172k miles. Don't know how long this has been happening. I purchased the car this way a few months ago (not being informed of the noise) and also came with the extra delayed shift option...
Mine will make the knocking noise for only a few seconds if the vehicle sits for more than a day or two. Temperature does not seem to have an effect on the presence of the noise. Only time seems to affect this.
Anyhow, just adding my comments to add to the pool of info. After reading all 8 pages of this thread I guess I'll not worry about it too much but I would REALLY like to figure it out.
I purchased this car thinking I have limited time remaining on the motor because of the high mileage. I'll either rebuild or replace when the current motor fails.

If mine last 172K it will ouylive me LOL

 

[Telco]

That one may, however the Motorcraft one specified by Ford for us does not seem to have one.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acf-fl2021

I don't know how much you can trust Summitracing's pages. They also say the FL-2021 has no bypass valve, but I know that it does. I can tell you that I've looked at the Motorcraft filters and there is a bypass valve, but there is no check valve. You might want to look at the Wix filter to see if there really is a check valve.

Since I don't have a spare filter available I checked the horse's mouth. Wix says they do. And, I'm pretty sure I remember seeing an orange ring visible inside the outer holes.

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=57302

 

[bamaboy]

A NAPA GOLD fikter is made by WIX and is the same filter , NAPA Mgr. told me so I put it on with last oil change with my usual Mobile 1 5W20 and NO HELP ! Had heard same thing , just seams to me we have something else causeing this because it never did it all these yrs & miles with the Motorcraft filter it calls for ! Hope before I pass on someone finaly figures this out !

 

[Ghost_Ls8]

does anyone else have their belt squeek after that noise occurs until the car warms up ?