Engine swap now howling & grinding noise

T

themissinglink

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I just put a new 2002 v8 engine in a 2000 v8 lincoln ls car. The car runs great and smooth. However at 35-40 mph the car makes a grinding noise that I can feel in the shifter stick it sounds like something is catching on something and then it stops as I go faster. The grinding noise sounds like it is comming from between the engine and transmission but it's hard to tell when you are going down the road. It howels when going from 35-55 mph and if I do not speed up fast past 35-40mph it will make the grinding noise. It will howl at 35-55 when cruising all the time. Could it be the driveshaft u-joint?

When I look at the transmission cross member it looks like it is not aligned quit right. The crossmeber bolts don't look right, if anyone has a picture of this it would be great.
 
The torque converter sits right between the engine and trans.
 
Find the cause of the problem.
Compare the inspection and road test results with the following chart.
Use the following diagnostic routine chart to identify the probable cause and know what corrective actions should be taken to repair the component/vehicle and to prevent a reoccurrence.


Diagnostic Routine Chart

Condition Action
· Fluid loss
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Fluid Loss

· Noise louder on turns (sweeping turn)
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Noise Louder on Turns (Sweeping)

· Axle noise (growl)a in tight turn
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Noise (Growl) In Tight Turn

· Axle noise (chatter/shudder)a in tight turn, limited slip differential
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Noise (Chatter/Shudder) In Tight Turns, Limited Slip Differential

· Axle noise (whine)a in all or more than one drive mode
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Noise (Whine) In All Or More Than One Drive Modes

· Axle noise (tick/click)a in all or more than one drive mode (drive, cruise, coast)
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Noise (Tick/Click) In All Or More Than One Drive Modes

· Axle noise (howl/moan)a in all or more than one drive mode (drive, cruise, coast)
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Noise (Howl/Moan) In All Or More Than One Drive Modes

· Axle noise (clunk)a on changes in speed or direction of power
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Noise (Clunk) On Changes In Speed Or Direction Of Power

· Front axle will not engage/disengage
· GO to Diagnostic Routine — Front Axle Will Not Engage/Disengage

· Vibration
· For additional information on driveline vibration diagnostics, REFER to Section 100-04.


Refer to Section 100-04 for a glossary of noise-related terms.


NOTE: If the conclusion of the road test points to an axle assembly section (ring and pinion or differential case) concern, carry out a visual inspection of the rear axle.

Inspect the axle components.
Remove the axle assembly.
Remove the differential housing cover. Drain the axle lubricant through a white cloth. Check the fluid for:
any foreign material.
metal particles.
burnt odor.
NOTE: When inspecting the axle, do not clean the components immediately. Cleaning may remove diagnostic evidence.

Inspect the axle components.
Look for:
loose fasteners.
notches or visible steps or grooves created by wear.
pitting or cracking along gear contact lines.
scuffing or deformations.
discolorations.
nicks or ridges on gear teeth.
Clean the axle components for inspection.
Remove as much lubricant as possible with clean solvent. Wipe the components or blow them dry with compressed air.
Re-inspect for:
loose fasteners.
notches or visible steps or grooves created by wear.
pitting or cracking along gear contact lines.
scuffing or deformations.
discolorations.
nicks or ridges on gear teeth.
Check backlash and carry out a ring and pinion pattern test. Refer to Checking Differential Ring Gear Backlash and Checking Tooth Contact Pattern and Condition of the Ring and Pinion in this section.

Diagnostic Routines

Diagnostic Routine — Fluid Loss

Possible Component Reference/Action
· Vent
· CLEAN the axle vent and vent hose.

· Overfilled axle
· CHECK the lubricant level for specific amount.

· Fill plug
· CLEAN the area around the plug. REMOVE the plug. APPLY pipe sealant and INSTALL the plug.

· Halfshaft oil seal
· INSTALL a new halfshaft oil seal.

· Pinion seal
· INSTALL a new pinion seal.

· Differential housing cover
· RESEAL the differential housing cover.
 
To much technical stuff

About the torque converter, the noise sounds like something is catching then grinding maybe on the flex plate. Could not using the proper torque on the bolts for the flexplate cause this noise? I feel the shifter making a weird shake when it happings. Maybe improper torque to the bolts for transmission shifter linkage or someting bolted to transmission I think. I am not a professional mechanic.

I took the engine and transmission out of the car from the top and seperated the 2. Then I put the same transmission back in with the new engine.

IF I accelerate fast it won't grind at 35-40 but it howls up to 60 mph. If I accelerate slowly or putts around at 35-40 something catches and grinds and I can't trace it back to the where its comming from.
 
Stop driving the car and check your converter END PLAY. You could of already KILLED the thrust bearing in the new motor. If that does happen motor is junk. End play should be around .080-.125. Everyone I know say they got the converter in all the clicks but really don't. I'm just giving you the bad case that if bad would need to be fixxed NOW.
 
Is the howling sound kind of more like a mrrrrr and then gets higher as it stops, kinda sounding like a bad power steering pump but nothing to do with a bad pump?
 
sound

I don't think it's the torque converter. When we put it on it slid all the way in. I have an extra transmission and the torque converter for that one is in the same position as the one in the car. It's a noise like something is swinging around and then lodging into the flywheel teeth is what it sounds like. The noise starts at 35mph, and then at 40mph exactly if I don't give it past this speed I will get the grinding noise. It will make the grinding noise for a second and then it sounds like what ever is making it is "jumping around" and then comes back to make the noise again. If I speed up fast below 30mph Past 43mph it will not make the grinding noise. However it will howel until 65mph and then its quit and makes no noise or vibration. I get a vibration on the shifter stick when it makes this noise. I looked under the car and I don't see an thing out of the ordinary. The shifter linkage all looks like the other transmission does. Nothing bent or broke as far as I can tell.

I would consider myself lucky if its a wheel bearing. the engine runs god and only leaks from the valve covers.

The noise is not from the power steering or fan pump.

Whatever is making the noise sounds like its a thin metal kinda like the flexplate size.

Its so strange how it only happens at 40mph for the grinding noise. The howling starts at 35 and goes until 65. The rpm gauge works right and so does the speedo. In my great opinion it has to be teeth on something making this noise with something getting jammed into them at an irregular pace.

Thanks for all the input.
 
diagnostic

The post about the axle gives me an idea to go and see if the problem happens when I coast in neutral at 40mph to see if it grinds. In my opinion if it was the torque converter this noise would happen all the time. And not just howel at 35-65 and grind at 40 mph.
 
I will ask again then no more. Did you measure your converter end play? That means measure not guess.
 
Transmission shifts into 5th pretty much right at 40mph...just a thought. Maybe its something to do with the 4th/5th gear in the transmission. a clutch or something?
 
end play

No I never checked any end play as the transmission is brand new and engine came from a running car..

The noise happens in any gear. If I put it in 3rd and go 40 it will grind, if it shift into 4th it will grind at 40mph.

Doesn't seem to matter what gear its in. I am going to look somemore at it Wednesday afternoon.

Wheel bearing or rear- end I think and hope and pray. I would rather tear out the rear axle and get a different one vs removing the transmissin.

Let you know when I know.
 
new light

I took the rubber inspection cover off and found a nut missing from the flex-plate. I felt around inside but didn't find the nut. What damage could be done from the nut if it's still rolling around inside.

The car still makes the grinding noise at 40mph and it has a vibration to it. When the vibration hits it highest shudder at 40mph then the grinding noise happens.

It's strange when I speed up fast it doesn't grind and doesn't have as much vibration.

I never indexed the transmission or engine and don't really know what it is.

Any ideas would be welcome.
 
solved!!

I found the problem. When swapping the engine and trans, I let my friends help. A drive shaft I thought to myself anyone could hook it up. The drive shaft was bolted straight to the transmission with the coupler. Instead of the coupler having 3 bolts to the driveshaft and the trans having 3 bolts to the coupler they hooked it up so only 3 bolts where used to bolt the trans and ds together straight. The shaft couldn't flex and that caused the vibrations that made the flywheel shutter and probably scrape the bellhousing.:eek:
 
Friends don't let friends help on tranny issues........ unless they're mechanics ;)

Just kidding - sometimes having one or more extra set of eyes can help prevent major doodoo from happening.

I really hope the damage is minimal for you, Chief. You seem to have had a lot to deal with in doing the swap.

Good luck,

TRU
 
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