Fan actuator question.

[M.Rad.]

Hi guys, my 2000 ls 3.9 is overheating when not moving,with A/C on (there are no leaks, and the system stays pressurized).

The hydraulic fan turns at slow speed with the A/C off, and goes to a higher speed when I turn the A/C on, but turns back to low speed after about a minute and stays at slow speed even as the temp climbs.

Does this indicate a bad actuator or a bad signal from the computer? Any suggestions?


Regards,
M.R.

 

[1LoudLS]

sounds like you have the same problem everybody else does

most likely your cooling fan system is failing... unless of course your the one exception to the rule

wouldn't have taken too much searching to figure that out, hell even its even covered on the main page...

 

[M.Rad.]

1LoudLS- thanks for the reply. I have read all about replacing the degas bottle and "all the plastics" etc.

My question is specific to the fan operation symptoms that I have, as noted in my original post. I.E. the fan operates, engages high speed for a minute, drops down to low speed and will not re-engage high speed with the A/C on or with the temp climbing.

It wouldn't have taken too much searching to figure that out, hell even its even covered in my original post...


So, my question is : does this type of operation indicate a fan actuator problem or a computer signal problem, or something else related to fan operation.

Regards,
M.R.

 

[joegr]

...So, my question is : does this type of operation indicate a fan actuator problem or a computer signal problem, or something else related to fan operation.

Regards,
M.R.

Search a little more, and you will see that this too has been covered (several times).

Hint: It's almost certainly not a "computer signal problem", but that doesn't mean it has to be an actuator problem either. There are more hydraulic fan parts involved...

 

[1LoudLS]

1LoudLS- thanks for the reply. I have read all about replacing the degas bottle and "all the plastics" etc.

My question is specific to the fan operation symptoms that I have, as noted in my original post. I.E. the fan operates, engages high speed for a minute, drops down to low speed and will not re-engage high speed with the A/C on or with the temp climbing.

It wouldn't have taken too much searching to figure that out, hell even its even covered in my original post...


So, my question is : does this type of operation indicate a fan actuator problem or a computer signal problem, or something else related to fan operation.

none of what I was talking about had anything to do with the degas or plastic parts (this time) (also doesn't mean that its not going to be something your gonna have to deal with...)


if your fan does not run at balls out super loud beast mode (anytime the engine is "overheating"), then you have a problem with the hydraulic cooling fans system, its not allowing the fan to spin fast enough...

I also do not think your problem has anything to do "computer signals"

if you want to know what is exactly the problem, then your gonna have to test it out to figure this out... we cant magically guess over the computer at which part is bad, but this happens all the time to 1st gen guys... so there is literally about 63 threads on this


if it was me, I would get rid of the hydraulic system all together and go electric... as I was hinting at about threads being on the first page...

liker this guy who needed to be spoon fed...
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...talling-an-electric-cooling-fan-in-1st-gen-LS

or more importantly, the fix...
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...an-Replacement&p=718518&viewfull=1#post718518

 

[M.Rad.]

1LoudLS,
thank you again for taking the time to reply. I have read through many pages of posts on this subject including the ones you linked to. I have found nothing directly addressing this behaiviour. I have read all the posts regarding changing fluid, adding Sea Foam, changing the solenoid valve, by-passing the pump with the 100" belt, etc.

Either I'm blind, or this particular problem has not been directly addressed. If I have somehow missed the particular thread dealing with it, please point me in the right direction, but I have no more time to waste aimlessly reading through dozens of posts.

While the electric fan is an option, I will try to repair what I have first. My plan is (in order of escalating cost and complexity): apply 12V to solenoid to see if full speed is available; flush fluid and add Sea Foam; flush with new fluid; R&R solenoid valve and soak in solvent; replace solenoid valve; install electric fan system.


I'll post results as I progress.

Regards,
M.R.

 

[1LoudLS]

but turns back to low speed after about a minute and stays at slow speed even as the temp climbs.

so you are saying that your fan is spinning at a slow speed at the same time the "temp is climbing" do you mean that the temp is climbing from cold to operating levels or are you saying climbing to above the middle (overheating)

if so then you know that your fan is not spinning fast enough... there are no less that 1 thousand threads on this exact problem, regardless of what you think, you are not the first person to have this problem...

 

[1LoudLS]

ok lets try this...


http://bfy.tw/UH4


second result down...


first post...


6th line down...

Symptoms :

You know your Actuator has gone bad if your Fan is spinning All the time or most of the time Pretty slow. In my case My car when it was Cold the fan would spin slow and then Kick into High mode a few times then eventually stop back to Slow mode again when it made running temperature causing the engine to Overheat.

maybe I'm the one who is confused but you say that all of the many threads you read and don't have time to continue to read you haven't seen this exact problem come up yet...

but yet I spend 20 seconds searching, and less than 30 seconds reading to find that...

can you tell me how that is any different than what you said is going on?

as noted in my original post. I.E. the fan operates, engages high speed for a minute, drops down to low speed and will not re-engage high speed with the A/C on or with the temp climbing.

then this

So, my question is : does this type of operation indicate a fan actuator problem or a computer signal problem, or something else related to fan operation.

was also answered by that comment from the same second result as above...

 

[joegr]

... apply 12V to solenoid to see if full speed is available...

I don't think that's how it works...

Why are you so certain that you aren't having one of the two or three problems that so many others have had with the hydraulic fan? In what way is your problem different?

Your problem as I understand it: The fan does not run fast enough when the car is not moving (the fan is not needed when it is moving) to keep the engine from overheating. This is the same issue many others have had. It seems to always come down to one or more of the following: Bad actuator, contaminated fluid, bad pump, or bad motor.

 

[milehighmikey]

Just change the actuator first, it's easy enough to change and a good chance that is all that is wrong.

 

[M.Rad.]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

1LoudLS: my searching was done using the search function of the forum site. The post you mention and others are very similar to my situation, except that mine would engage high speed for about a minute before slowing down. I guess that doesn't really matter since the fan is slow when it counts. I figured if I had any high speed operation at all, the actuator wasn't suspect.

joegr: since I had some high speed operation, for a brief period, I figured it was something other than the big three.

Since my budget is rather tight ( as I am sure many of us are familiar with), I like to be able to test components to be sure they are bad before replacing them. Especially a $175.00 piece. That is why I asked about applying 12V to the solenoid.

So here's what happened today:

Drained and replaced fluid with fresh, new fluid. Big mess, no change in operation.

Drained fluid and removed solenoid. Big mess. Cleaned it with brake cleaner. Applied 12V with a stand-alone power supply. I could hear an intermittent "click", sometimes yes, sometimes no. Re-installed solenoid (getting pretty good at it). No change in operation.

So now I guess I'll buy an actuator and hope it's not the motor or pump. I'll update when I install it.

Thanks again gentlemen, and sorry for aggravating you.

Regards,
M.R.

 

[1LoudLS]

here is a couple of important pointers to help here.

#1 always use google, they make billions cause they are one of the best search engines! might as well let them do what they do best.

#2 you can add "site:" and the a website (as in "lincolnvscadillac.com") to limit the results to a certain site like I did for that example


the sites built in search feature doesn't work too well because there has been way too many threads about the same topic created over and over and it clogs up the results



#3 its not that we are aggravated, its just that after reading this, it didn't sound any different than any of the other times somebody has had overheating issued... there really is only a couple of things that do actually go wrong, both generations suffer from a part life span that very likely will require all plastic pieces to fail near the same time, or for first gens, their fan usually stops working (correctly). were just used to everybody coming on and not believing they are having the same issues and that their problem is different. it just gets a little annoying to have to re explain everything a couple of times each week...

 

[1LoudLS]

also, just out of curiosity, what did you fill the system with? and what did the old fluid look like when it came out?

 

[M.Rad.]

1LoudLS- I'm using Dexron/Mercon fluid . It was a slightly brownish dark red. Certainly needed replacement. The new is a dark red, although it didn't change the fan operation.

Regards,
M.R.

 

[1LoudLS]

that good that the fluid coming out looked normal(ish)...

too many people get confused by the logo on the reservoir cap and add coolant instead of ATF.

 

[RigsLS]

Which results in a pink foamy mess and a burned out pump.

 

[RigsLS]

... It was a slightly brownish dark red. Certainly needed replacement ...

I remember that day! LOL ... we had people over that night, was trying to get them to do shots with me! No takers!

Did the P/S at the same time.





Should really be doing all fluids again soon myself, wanted to try and run the seafoam through the Hydraulic Fan next time around.

 

[M.Rad.]

Hi guys, here a quick update-

the actuator solenoid came and I installed it. Now the fan works at all speeds depending on temp.

I also replaced the upper hose assembly because the small fitting on the bottom crumbled into dust when I tried to remove the hose clamp.

Now I am getting coolant spray that is being slung upwards and to the right (standing in front) by the fan, so I'm guessing the water pump is leaking.

The temp stays about one needle width above the center mark at idle with A/C on and 90* outside temp., which is still an indication of too high a temp, I guess (it never went past mid point before).

I'll update againas I progress.

Regards,
M.R.

 

[milehighmikey]

If your air conditioning is still working, it's not that hot yet. Be sure that there is not a hose doing this new leaking.

 

[1LoudLS]

which is still an indication of too high a temp, I guess (it never went past mid point before).

this correct, the engine is overheating before the needle starts to move.

at least that problem is out of the way...

now here is some food for thought, if one piece of the plastic cooling system just crumbled to dust, every other part is pretty much in the same condition. so you can search for the leaking part and replace it and wait a few weeks (if that) until the next parts fails, or just replace them all and be done with it...

 

[M.Rad.]

1LoudLS, "now here is some food for thought,.......". Yes, I'm sure you're correct and if the budget allowed I would do so. However I am limited to repairing only what is absolutely necessary at this time. That is why I was leery of replacing the actuator solenoid before being sure it was bad.

I have removed all the other parts and given them the visual and " squeeze" test and they seem ok, but only time will tell. I will post progress or lack there of.

Regards,
M.R.

 

[joegr]

...if the budget allowed I would do so. ...

The problem is that it will cost you more to replace them all, one at a time, over the next month or two that it would cost to do them all now. If you don't have the budget to do them all now, then you surely don't have the budget to do them one at a time. No offense, but if you really don't have the money, you need to dump the LS now and buy something way cheaper to maintain. The LS does not care about the limitations of your budget.

You didn't believe us about the actuator, and now you don't believe us about the cooling system parts. I'm done beating my head against your wall...

 

[1LoudLS]

the only reason I push so hard on that is because I learned the hard way... I only had one part fail (the entire end of the coolant outlet pipe blew off) then when taking apart to replace it after waiting a few days for the part to get here, the thermostat housing crumbled while just taking it apart, so I had to wait a few more days for another part to get here. then after replacing that while taking it for a test drive after bleeding it, it started to over heat, pulled over, popped the hood and heard a hissing, while looking for the noise, i touched the upper radiator hose and it cracked and sprayed my arm giving me a sweet burn while having to get my car towed and wait a few more days for parts...

after messing with it for two whole weeks, I finally got it back on the road (for a few months before the lower hose needed to be replaced) all because I though I would save what little money I I had left over...

if this was my only car and I relied on it, I would have been fukced. and it cost me a lot more in the long run...

 

[1LoudLS]

its one thing if it a weird problem that happens here and there, but if the LS is one thing, its that it is consistent. what ever are its known problem, you can bet and having to deal with at least 7 out of 10 of its most common problem through its life!

 

[M.Rad.]

Joegr- I am puzzled by your strident and accusatory tone. I never said I didn't believe you, I asked clarifying questions or stated the limitations under which I must operate.

BTW the whole concept of a budget is- pay for things in the order of importance and defer others so as not to neglect the necessities. If I don't have it this week, I wait until next week. And if I buy a single part that fixes my problem, at least for the time being, then I can wait to buy the others which have not failed yet (but may soon).

So, if you would like to reply with helpful suggestions I will accept them gratefully. But I do not need to be lectured by someone who is not familiar with my situation, nor told that I'm living above my station in life because I don't have a bottomless wallet. I've gotten enough of that from the snooty BMW crowd.

1LoudLS- I appreciate your advice and am sorry to hear of your burn injury. Luckily this is not my only car, although it is one that I depend on.

As always, thank you for your advice and I will post progress so that others can learn from my experience (mistakes?).

Regards,
M.R.