dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
what do you mean? incorporate an H, X, or some sort of blend in front of the rear axle?
Flwmstr 40 series swap
- Thread starter dnsherrill
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Sapperfire
Dedicated LVC Member
Yeah. If you stand and listen to it from the rear, it'll sound flappy.. that's the best way I can describe it.
You remember where the resonator was... put your cross right there
So..$450? How much did you pay for those pipes and cans? I know you can order a cat back mandrel bent system for $120-$160.
I'm trying to figure what an exhaust shop charges to weld up a system
UltimateSVT
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Had that same issue in my 93 until I "X'ed" it.
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
mufflers: 60 x 2...120
tips: 35 x 2...70
labor/materials (new 2.5'' pipes)...250
440
-before he did the job, the welder suggested he should be able to make an H or some type of crossover..then when I came to pick it up he had finished without doing it, so he's paid in full and now I need to get him to redo it 'right'...I don't want to pay $80 for a x pipe, so I'll try to convince him to do a simple H
tips: 35 x 2...70
labor/materials (new 2.5'' pipes)...250
440
-before he did the job, the welder suggested he should be able to make an H or some type of crossover..then when I came to pick it up he had finished without doing it, so he's paid in full and now I need to get him to redo it 'right'...I don't want to pay $80 for a x pipe, so I'll try to convince him to do a simple H
KStromberg
Dedicated LVC Member
In my opinion, the price is nothing abnormal. BUT the fact that the crossover is not there is. That's odd that they didn't put it in there. I would try to convince them to do it at no additional cost. Go in there and tell them that your exhaust needs scavenging. That's the point of a crossover pipe. They dummied down your exhaust setup and that aint right.
For reference, several years back I paid $479 for 2.5" piping all the way back with an H-pipe and IIMCOs (flowmaster knoockoffs) with turndowns on my 91 Town Car with no tips. So again, the price is not outrageous at all. But that no crossover thing......yeah. :shifty:
Sapperfire
Dedicated LVC Member
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
the guy created a true x-pipe, not x-crossover, this past weekend...the car sounds a little less flappy from the outside, but it created a bowel-loosening drone (between 1000-15000 rpm's) inside the cabin, almost sort of 'varty/farty'?; I need something else..maybe an H instead of X? maybe GP resonators before the x? maybe a magnaflow x muffler instead of the X-pipe? if I go that route, maybe the FM's should go away so it sounds better outside?
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
what my mech created is like this:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Magnaflow/642/10781/10002/-1?parentProductId=759589
two elbows, each with a hole cut out, and married in the middle
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
so, about 5 days after the x-pipe ad-on and the drone is wearing me the eff out-it didn't seem this loud before the x-pipe; now I'm looking at replacing the mid-body x pipe with a muffled x pipe- (straight thru type) and try that, then 'maybe' remove the FM 40's at the bumper if it's not loud enough....is there some reason I shouldn't save about $50 and buy this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FULL-BOAR-M...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item483d7cb4b4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FULL-BOAR-M...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item483d7cb4b4
slo89stang
LVC Member
From where?
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
as it stands now, the mech created this x
planning to replace this with a Magnaflow 12468
planning to replace this with a Magnaflow 12468
UltimateSVT
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as it stands now, the mech created this x
planning to replace this with a Magnaflow 12468
Something about that just isn't right. If you replace it with a MagnaFlow that exhaust is going to quiet down BIG TIME! I'd purchase 2 "X-pipes" & install them in place of that made up X. Drone should quiet down. That's just my opinion.
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
the surface area where the pipes combine is much less than all the pre-made X/crossovers I see from distributors; IDK how the smaller blend area affects the sound; If i add the mid-body muffler and it's not loud enough, I can lose the FM's behind the rear axle..just go straight straight pipe afte the X-muff
- why will (2) X's knock down the drone?
-Racecougar had a real good explanation of using an attenuator to target a certain RPM/ Hz level...but I'd need space for two 33.75'' long pipes that branch off the main exhaust, and he space just ain't there!
-update: just added my SCT tune, doesn't bog down in the 12-1500 rpm range as often so the drone is not as bad! I still may replace what my mech did with a pre-made true x-pipe crossover item
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
here's the MF tips, 4'' round sloped with rolled edge; looks okay from behind, not as good from the sides. Maybe I'll paint the FM's black
Sapperfire
Dedicated LVC Member
In my opinion, the stock LSC tips are the best looking on these cars, because they're designed for the bumper cutouts, next choice would be oval tips. The tip will dictate a lot how the system sounds as it acts as the Bell of your wind instrument
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
I didn't know the tip had that much effect on the tone..I got these 4'' rounds b/c they were $30/each...so a round tip sounds a little fatter, while an oval tip may be a little sharper/higher pitched?
Sapperfire
Dedicated LVC Member
It depends on the thickness, shape, material used... there are countless possibilities when building a system.. and how each will sound, depends on all the rest of the supporting components
Although X-pipes are essential for race cars, adding this modification to a stock car can be a good idea for many reasons – increased power, fuel economy and less noise inside the vehicle. This type of aftermarket performance part is something you can either purchase or have custom-made for you by a good muffler shop. Installation is simple enough for the at-home pro, and the result will be well worth the effort.The Evolution of the X-PipeTo understand the importance of the X-pipe in relation to improved performance and power, you have to know about its roots. The X-pipe is really the offspring of the H-pipe design, which was first conceived in the 1960s by the major American car manufacturing companies at the time. Duel exhaust pipes for V-8-powered vehicles are very noisy, as there is no sound wave cancellation between the 2 separate four-cylinder engines and unconnected exhaust systems. Engineers were looking for a way to cut down on interior noise levels and improve the engine's power. They realized that running a balance tube between the two branches of exhaust pipe would work to broaden the torque curve (thus improving engine performance) and dissipate sound resonance in the exhaust system.In the 1990s improved technological advancements made it possible to construct an exhaust pipe that, instead of connecting by means of a balance pipe at a severe 90-degree angle, could unify the two branches of pipe to create a flow of exhaust in one direction. Now X-pipes are being manufactured for popular performance cars, usually off-road versions minus catalytic converters, but you can also find them in legal models fully equipped with proper emissions equipment. Performing an X-pipe mod is an option that you should consider.Why X over H?It has been proven time and again that the X-pipe design is more efficient than the H-pipe. Various tests have shown that for multiple cylinder engines the X-pipe outperforms H-pipe exhaust systems, especially as rpm increases, providing both better torque and power. Unified exhaust pipes work most efficiently with multiple cylinders because of the scavenging effect. With exhaust X-pipes the almost seamless connection between the two exhaust pipes allows sequential firing cylinders to salvage any spent exhaust gases from the combustion chamber more efficiently and creates more room in the cylinder for a fresh intake of undiluted fuel and air. When you have two exhaust pipes, as the velocity in one header tube increases, the pressure in the adjacent tube is lowered causing the exhaust to be sucked out of that cylinder. X-pipes are simply better at doing the job, especially at higher speeds.Installing Exhaust X-PipesThis is a simple mod that almost anyone can perform successfully. Most companies produce exhaust X-pipes that are simple bolt-ons that can be installed in less than an hour using the usual hand tools.If you own a vehicle that doesn't have an X-pipe available, it is possible to have a custom X-pipe assembled for you. A muffler shop can construct it by taking an X-pipe union and bending up some exhaust tubing until it fits. If you decide to make your own exhaust X-pipe from scratch, so-to-speak, remember to place the X-pipe union as close to the rear of the vehicle as you can to increase the power.A Brief How-ToTo install exhaust X-pipes, first begin by positioning the passenger-side header pipe in place and tightening it before moving on to the next step. Make sure it is secure. Now, fit in the actual X-pipe along with the driver's side header pipe. Remember that the long leg of the X must go toward the front driver's side of the car. Now it's time to fit the pipes of the X into position and loosely attach them to the after-cat system. You might have to adjust how the after-cat is hanging for proper tailpipe positioning and tuck up the X-pipe square. On some vehicles the tranny crossmember has an exhaust hangar - if this is the case you can tack the hardware onto the pipes. Tighten the bolts and tack-weld the junctions at the X. Check everything one more time before removing the X-pipe and welding the full length of the junctions. The assembled unit now needs to be bolted back into position - simple as that.All in all, with exhaust X-pipes torque and power will increase resulting in fast acceleration, improved fuel economy and a nice quiet ride. The difference is noticeable with the installation of X-pipes on a V-8 engine vehicle - interior noise is reduced considerably because you don't hear the firing impulses of 2 four-cylinder engines, but instead hear the noise of all 8 cylinders blasting out of both pipes at once.
Although X-pipes are essential for race cars, adding this modification to a stock car can be a good idea for many reasons – increased power, fuel economy and less noise inside the vehicle. This type of aftermarket performance part is something you can either purchase or have custom-made for you by a good muffler shop. Installation is simple enough for the at-home pro, and the result will be well worth the effort.The Evolution of the X-PipeTo understand the importance of the X-pipe in relation to improved performance and power, you have to know about its roots. The X-pipe is really the offspring of the H-pipe design, which was first conceived in the 1960s by the major American car manufacturing companies at the time. Duel exhaust pipes for V-8-powered vehicles are very noisy, as there is no sound wave cancellation between the 2 separate four-cylinder engines and unconnected exhaust systems. Engineers were looking for a way to cut down on interior noise levels and improve the engine's power. They realized that running a balance tube between the two branches of exhaust pipe would work to broaden the torque curve (thus improving engine performance) and dissipate sound resonance in the exhaust system.In the 1990s improved technological advancements made it possible to construct an exhaust pipe that, instead of connecting by means of a balance pipe at a severe 90-degree angle, could unify the two branches of pipe to create a flow of exhaust in one direction. Now X-pipes are being manufactured for popular performance cars, usually off-road versions minus catalytic converters, but you can also find them in legal models fully equipped with proper emissions equipment. Performing an X-pipe mod is an option that you should consider.Why X over H?It has been proven time and again that the X-pipe design is more efficient than the H-pipe. Various tests have shown that for multiple cylinder engines the X-pipe outperforms H-pipe exhaust systems, especially as rpm increases, providing both better torque and power. Unified exhaust pipes work most efficiently with multiple cylinders because of the scavenging effect. With exhaust X-pipes the almost seamless connection between the two exhaust pipes allows sequential firing cylinders to salvage any spent exhaust gases from the combustion chamber more efficiently and creates more room in the cylinder for a fresh intake of undiluted fuel and air. When you have two exhaust pipes, as the velocity in one header tube increases, the pressure in the adjacent tube is lowered causing the exhaust to be sucked out of that cylinder. X-pipes are simply better at doing the job, especially at higher speeds.Installing Exhaust X-PipesThis is a simple mod that almost anyone can perform successfully. Most companies produce exhaust X-pipes that are simple bolt-ons that can be installed in less than an hour using the usual hand tools.If you own a vehicle that doesn't have an X-pipe available, it is possible to have a custom X-pipe assembled for you. A muffler shop can construct it by taking an X-pipe union and bending up some exhaust tubing until it fits. If you decide to make your own exhaust X-pipe from scratch, so-to-speak, remember to place the X-pipe union as close to the rear of the vehicle as you can to increase the power.A Brief How-ToTo install exhaust X-pipes, first begin by positioning the passenger-side header pipe in place and tightening it before moving on to the next step. Make sure it is secure. Now, fit in the actual X-pipe along with the driver's side header pipe. Remember that the long leg of the X must go toward the front driver's side of the car. Now it's time to fit the pipes of the X into position and loosely attach them to the after-cat system. You might have to adjust how the after-cat is hanging for proper tailpipe positioning and tuck up the X-pipe square. On some vehicles the tranny crossmember has an exhaust hangar - if this is the case you can tack the hardware onto the pipes. Tighten the bolts and tack-weld the junctions at the X. Check everything one more time before removing the X-pipe and welding the full length of the junctions. The assembled unit now needs to be bolted back into position - simple as that.All in all, with exhaust X-pipes torque and power will increase resulting in fast acceleration, improved fuel economy and a nice quiet ride. The difference is noticeable with the installation of X-pipes on a V-8 engine vehicle - interior noise is reduced considerably because you don't hear the firing impulses of 2 four-cylinder engines, but instead hear the noise of all 8 cylinders blasting out of both pipes at once.
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
both clips made with the same iphone
______
here is how it sounds with the X pictured above, and the MF 4'' tips:
Exhaust 12 02 12 a - YouTube
ALOT quieter, not as flappy or raspy...right now, this second vid, is not the sound I'm happy with; I wonder if that 12'' premade X pipe would fit in the straight segment under the fuel tank
that is how it sounded with no X, no H, no balance or crossover, and no tips
______
here is how it sounds with the X pictured above, and the MF 4'' tips:
Exhaust 12 02 12 a - YouTube
ALOT quieter, not as flappy or raspy...right now, this second vid, is not the sound I'm happy with; I wonder if that 12'' premade X pipe would fit in the straight segment under the fuel tank
Sapperfire
Dedicated LVC Member
I don't think you'd get as much of the scavenger effect that far back in the system... and your X looks like ..bad
Buy a good one that wasn't made by a drunk hill-billy or put the 3rd cat back on
Phone don't take good audio recordings ..so yeah
Buy a good one that wasn't made by a drunk hill-billy or put the 3rd cat back on
Phone don't take good audio recordings ..so yeah
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
haha....when were you in Georgia at that shop? he's a good guy, (he removed my 3rd cat !)... a bit of a sofa king...and a bit of a drunk hillbilly; he obviously didn't want to do the X, or he would have done it the first time; I think I'll get one of those X's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170553669545?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
and put it where his shop-made X is...
now, the tips????
it is quieter, smoother compared to when it was first done, but a little bit farty now
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170553669545?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
and put it where his shop-made X is...
now, the tips????
it is quieter, smoother compared to when it was first done, but a little bit farty now
LowLincoln
Well-Known LVC Member
dns, I'd just slap in an H section. The power differences between X and H are minimal and is really just down to sound preference.
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
how would you describe the sound difference?
EconomySpeedNStyle
Active LVC Member
The real drone fix.
how-build-exhaust-resonator-tube-eliminate-drone
A lot of people have had some real results using a tuned resonator tube attached to the exhaust to completely eliminate drone.
Cheap, too. You could make one with an exhaust tee, and a tube of the appropriate length.
The hard part is getting the dimensions right and finding a place that fits... it might require some bending.
More:
exhaust-drone-resonator-fix-design-construction
new-exhaust-no-drone-all
There's plenty more site out there with explanations, results, etc.
Google Resonator Search
how-build-exhaust-resonator-tube-eliminate-drone
A lot of people have had some real results using a tuned resonator tube attached to the exhaust to completely eliminate drone.
Cheap, too. You could make one with an exhaust tee, and a tube of the appropriate length.
The hard part is getting the dimensions right and finding a place that fits... it might require some bending.
More:
exhaust-drone-resonator-fix-design-construction
new-exhaust-no-drone-all
There's plenty more site out there with explanations, results, etc.
Google Resonator Search
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
see botom 1/3 of page 1
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=86488
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=86488
95mark8newyork
Dedicated LVC Member
X is more high pitched, H has a deeper rumble. Your car sounds alot quieter than with no x pipe but has a nice rumble