Front Cover, Oil Leak, and Overheating...(Combo thread)

[rgorke]

I started a thread about a recent overheating issue here but thought I would just combine the discussion since it is turning into one big job.

2004 V8 with 280k + miles. Two owner...my parents and then me. Very well maintained over it's life time. I've done all the normal repairs, cooling system with MotorCraft, suspension, intake manifold rebuild to fix lean codes, and many other things. I have had a slight oil leak that leaves drips in the driveway and recently (within the past 3-4 months) discovered my valve cover gaskets are leaking into the spark plugs.

It was suggested that if and when I replace the front cover gaskets, I replace the chain tensioners and guides. This most recent overheating issue is the opportunity to address the oil leaks.

Today, I removed most of the cooling system on the front of the engine and then proceeded to pull off both valve covers. What a bear getting the valve covers off. It wasn't so much getting a socket onto the bolts, it was getting them backed all the way out. The bolts stay on the valve covers so it is a little difficult to know when they are all the way out. Adding to the frustration is that they are just a little too snug to back out using fingers but with a socket wrench they are loose enough to spin back and forth unless you use the other hand to put some friction as you ratchet back. anyway...

Here's how the cams and chains look. I am actually quite pleased with how they look. The secondary tensioner seems to be in good condition with no signs of wear.

The front cover is another story with oil caked on. I'll be working on that tomorrow and also examining the primary tensioners and guides.

Here are also pictures of the auxiliary coolant pump and DCCV valve. I will probably go ahead and replace those. I didn't see any apparent cracks or damage to the radiator but I will give that a good look tomorrow. Maybe I should get it pressure tested...that's a thing, right?

That's about it for now. Oh, and getting the fuel line off is a pain as well! Even with the "right" tool.

 

[rgorke]

Front cover is off...what a pain getting the PS/tensioner bracket off. I've done that before but don't recall it being so difficult. Now just waiting on gaskets. After 280k miles, the tensioners, guides, and chains look really good. I didn't see any cracks or gouges. Looks like they got it right the second time (meaning in the Gen 2 engine).

There are some dark oil spots on the inside of the front cover, should I worry about those? I cleaned the outside really well, looks almost new. Now to attack all the oil muck from around the engine. I know better than to spray it with a hose. I did carefully squirt some Purple Power degreaser on the spots and plan on coming back with some brake clean.

 

[joegr]

...There are some dark oil spots on the inside of the front cover, should I worry about those? ...

I wouldn't. At anywhere close to 300K miles, there are going to be some spots like that. Places where the oil doesn't circulate much (where it doesn't need to) are bound to get a little stained.

 

[MIKEBEBE]

Front cover is off...what a pain getting the PS/tensioner bracket off. I've done that before but don't recall it being so difficult. Now just waiting on gaskets. After 280k miles, the tensioners, guides, and chains look really good. I didn't see any cracks or gouges. Looks like they got it right the second time (meaning in the Gen 2 engine).

There are some dark oil spots on the inside of the front cover, should I worry about those? I cleaned the outside really well, looks almost new. Now to attack all the oil muck from around the engine. I know better than to spray it with a hose. I did carefully squirt some Purple Power degreaser on the spots and plan on coming back with some brake clean.

View attachment 828577889

Looks like a SOB of a job. Did you have to loosen the a/c compressor to get the TC cover off?

 

[04_Sport_LS]

IIRC... there is the potential to strip out the threads in the cover when reinstalling the tensioner.

 

[rgorke]

Did you have to loosen the a/c compressor to get the TC cover off?

Yes…it’s a real PITA!!!

 

[rgorke]

IIRC... there is the potential to strip out the threads in the cover when reinstalling the tensioner.

Yes sir!!! Been there, done that, and got the t shirt! The original mounting bracket had a heli coil in it when I had to do a similar job several years ago. Fortunately, the brackets are plentiful on the auction site.

 

[MIKEBEBE]

Yes…it’s a real PITA!!!

yeah I have the same leak. Thanks
Look I fished a hose clamp around the coolant tube area at the Oring and it appears to have sealed that leak!
Good luck with it man.

 

[rgorke]

yeah I have the same leak. Thanks
Look I fished a hose clamp around the coolant tube area at the Oring and it appears to have sealed that leak!

What type of leak? Oil? Coolant? Which O Ring?

Another thing is the O ring for my dip stick was a mess and there was quite a bit of oil schmutz around where it is inserted in the block.

Getting the PS/Tensioner bracket back on is a chore. Having learned my lesson, I always finger the bolts as far as they can go. I even sprayed brake clean into all of the threaded holes to clean out the gunk and really cleaned each of the bolts. Irrespective of how the manual articulates the process, I'm not sure they really thought about how all the different parts come off since they assemble most of the engine outside the car.

It's also a bit nerve wracking (possibly a mild overstatement), e.g., making sure right amount (3mm) of RTV in the 8 places for the front cover and valve covers are mounted within their 4 min time frame. I have no idea how they expect all 24 bolts of the front cover to be installed and appropriately torqued twice within 4 mins. Then there's getting the valve cover bolts and new gaskets are installed in their right places and the thought of "I hope none of the spark plug gaskets fell off" when I was putting the valve cover on.

 

[MIKEBEBE]

What type of leak? Oil? Coolant? Which O Ring?

Another thing is the O ring for my dip stick was a mess and there was quite a bit of oil schmutz around where it is inserted in the block.

Getting the PS/Tensioner bracket back on is a chore. Having learned my lesson, I always finger the bolts as far as they can go. I even sprayed brake clean into all of the threaded holes to clean out the gunk and really cleaned each of the bolts. Irrespective of how the manual articulates the process, I'm not sure they really thought about how all the different parts come off since they assemble most of the engine outside the car.

It's also a bit nerve wracking (possibly a mild overstatement), e.g., making sure right amount (3mm) of RTV in the 8 places for the front cover and valve covers are mounted within their 4 min time frame. I have no idea how they expect all 24 bolts of the front cover to be installed and appropriately torqued twice within 4 mins. Then there's getting the valve cover bolts and new gaskets are installed in their right places and the thought of "I hope none of the spark plug gaskets fell off" when I was putting the valve cover on.

Sounds like you are doing a hell of a job man.
The o-ring is the 53mm located on the coolant tube that meets the thermostat crossover pipe.
If you don't have a leak never-mind.
However, you can expect that pos to spew coolant in the future.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

The gooseneck o-rings are easy to replace. Unbolt the elbow from the block... lube the new o ring with a little coolant, and reinstall the elbow. It will slip in the back if lubed.

Of course though... You should replace everything from the top of the block... and the crossover, all at once.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

What type of leak? Oil? Coolant? Which O Ring?

Another thing is the O ring for my dip stick was a mess and there was quite a bit of oil schmutz around where it is inserted in the block.

Getting the PS/Tensioner bracket back on is a chore. Having learned my lesson, I always finger the bolts as far as they can go. I even sprayed brake clean into all of the threaded holes to clean out the gunk and really cleaned each of the bolts. Irrespective of how the manual articulates the process, I'm not sure they really thought about how all the different parts come off since they assemble most of the engine outside the car.

It's also a bit nerve wracking (possibly a mild overstatement), e.g., making sure right amount (3mm) of RTV in the 8 places for the front cover and valve covers are mounted within their 4 min time frame. I have no idea how they expect all 24 bolts of the front cover to be installed and appropriately torqued twice within 4 mins. Then there's getting the valve cover bolts and new gaskets are installed in their right places and the thought of "I hope none of the spark plug gaskets fell off" when I was putting the valve cover on.

I never did any of that. Just need o-rings on the tubes... and just a proper torque sequence on the covers and gaskets. I did however use quick set rtv sealer at the joints.

No leaks in the last 80k miles.

It does however require the proper sockets and wrenches (and swivels an extensions) to do that.

I don't remember for sure... but I might only be on my 2nd set of VCGs in 280k miles.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

The worst spot to work on the VCG's... is back by the brake booster.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

And you are better off leaving the coil covers off. Water will still get in under the covers... through the wiring harnesses. Especially on the passenger side.

 

[rgorke]

I got everything back together and when I started it up had a loud knocking sound. Not sure if it is from the car sitting for over a week and oil draining out of the valves or what. I also need to get a new cap for the thermostat housing since the O ring is not round and coolant was coming out. When the car first started it stalled and I noticed I didn't have the throttle body connector in tight, then I noticed the cap leaking coolant and stopped trying to start it.

I double checked that nothing fell into the valves before I put the covers back on, so I don't think something foreign is in there.

I'll need to run to the dealership to get a new cap.

Update: I poured some oil in the oil filler and no more knocking, must have been oil starved after the valve cover gaskets.

 

[rgorke]

After getting the cooling system to behave, I noticed some oil burning underneath (toward the exhaust manifolds) of the valve covers on both sides.

I am thinking this is one of two things:

1) I don't have the valve covers torqued quite right, and/or
2) Oil leaked out onto the exhaust manifolds when I had the covers off.

When I started it up originally, it idled kind of rough. It then threw two codes P0352 and P0352. These are electrical codes for the 2nd and 5th cylinders. I took off the coil covers and found the electrical connectors for the coils loose on both of those cylinders. After pushing them on tight, all is good. The locking clips for those seem to have broken off making it difficult to securely fasten them.

 

[joegr]

Hopefully, it is (2). The torque on the valve cover bolt is not a critical as you might think. The bolt have shoulders that contact the heads, so the compression on the gaskets is not determined by the torque on the bolts. They just need to be tight enough that they won't vibrate loose. Making the tighter will not increase the compression on the gaskets.
I remember some oil burning off when I did mine.

 

[rgorke]

Hopefully, it is (2). The torque on the valve cover bolt is not a critical as you might think. The bolt have shoulders that contact the heads, so the compression on the gaskets is not determined by the torque on the bolts. They just need to be tight enough that they won't vibrate loose. Making the tighter will not increase the compression on the gaskets.
I remember some oil burning off when I did mine.

Good to know...having both sides with the issue makes me hopeful that it is (2).

On the bright side, I see no visible oil leaks from this adventure with the front cover!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Yay... To get the oil saturation off, spray the exhaust manifolds with brake clean.

Make sure you do that on a COLD engine!!!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

And yes... the coil connector clips do break. O'Reilly's carries a replacement "pigtail" made by Standard Motor Products.

I had to do 2 of mine after VCG's

I forget the part number.