FRPP 4:10s and Traction Loc

It seems to me like I'm better of just getting a faster car than trying to make an LS faster.
Although, maybe by THAT time, there will be more details on the turbo and SC to get more power out of a great car that LS is and I could pick 06 LS.
The reason the Quik won't provide much details, at least about the differential, is that it IS an LLSOC.com project. Maybe they don't want to pass up info to a free forum, since if I remember correctly it was a freebie from another member that abandoned the project. Correct me if I am wrong. I just assume things.

How much mileage changed in the LS with the higher gears?
Either the 4.10 or the open 3.58 from early LSes.
 
02LSE96LSC91SE84TC said:
I said it was a "posibility" and "never done". If someone takes that as gold to find out and it don't work and blames me....they're the dummy.

Also Quik seems to have this set up started already. I PMed him on if he had a entire 8.8 guts in the stock LS diff or was it a 8.8 unit with the stock 8.0 ring and pinion fitted into the stock LS diff. He didn't know or want to tell me. Anyways if the bearing and main caps fit thats a good start but yes it hasn't been all figured out yet.

What do I care...I'm set already:D.
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Jason you are basing that statement upon a friggin 10 second eyeball measurement in my garage, with no side by side teardown performed on the diff's. If there were more preliminary "real" measurements taken then I could see you stating what you said. Until I tear both diff's down and take detailed measurements with my machinist calipers it is all just bench racing for the moment. Don't put the cart before the horse on this one no matter how promising it initially appears.

I do not exactly trust what that fella said regarding things that were accomplished with that rear diff of his. I would take what the guy said for a grain of salt until there is really any solid results from this either on his end or another. Two and a half years for a mere custom supercharger project does not bode well for proving a person has what it takes to follow through with projects.
 
Sn8kbordin said:
It seems to me like I'm better of just getting a faster car than trying to make an LS faster.
Although, maybe by THAT time, there will be more details on the turbo and SC to get more power out of a great car that LS is and I could pick 06 LS.
The reason the Quik won't provide much details, at least about the differential, is that it IS an LLSOC.com project. Maybe they don't want to pass up info to a free forum, since if I remember correctly it was a freebie from another member that abandoned the project. Correct me if I am wrong. I just assume things.

How much mileage changed in the LS with the higher gears?
Either the 4.10 or the open 3.58 from early LSes.
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3.58s would likely make no noticeable difference. 4.10s I'm expecting to see the highway to do down, city to stay the same if not go up a smidge. Overall I'm expecting the average to drop a few.

Quik posted pics on here so I asked a single question and didn't get the answer. I think I know why that project stopped, but just a assumption.
 
Sn8kbordin said:
Although, maybe by THAT time, there will be more details on the turbo and SC to get more power out of a great car that LS is and I could pick 06 LS.
Click to expand...



What more information do you need on the turbocharged LS? I hope you do not think I will give out full parts lists for the heck of it? I am sorry but if people really want a turbo for their LS then they can either talk with me, talk to another shop, or take the time to design and build their own. This is a car site and I provide tons of free performance advice and guidance here on the open forum and especially through PM, but the exact parts breakdown details on the turbo system are not going to be released except to customers.

Now, if you are talking about power results? Those will come in time but I feel my initial power estimates to be pretty accurate. The turbo has not even been done for a month, is 95% tuned and frankly I have not had much time to put the final touches on it and turn the wick up to 6 psi boost.
 
ILLS said:
Jason you are basing that statement upon a friggin 10 second eyeball measurement in my garage, with no side by side teardown performed on the diff's. If there were more preliminary "real" measurements taken then I could see you stating what you said. Until I tear both diff's down and take detailed measurements with my machinist calipers it is all just bench racing for the moment. Don't put the cart before the horse on this one no matter how promising it initially appears.

I do not exactly trust what that fella said regarding things that were accomplished with that rear diff of his. I would take what the guy said for a grain of salt until there is really any solid results from this either on his end or another.
Click to expand...

My comment didn't just come from the 10 second eyeballing. That came only after realizing it may be possible based on a few things I learned along the way on the project. Not just from what the other memeber showed. DTS also said the guts bolt in but the pinion was what needed to be worked out. DTS also suggested the Traction Lock while retaining the LS ring and pinion could work but since I wanted to gear up never concluded. Still alot left to figure.


Again its a "possibility" and "never been done".

so in conclusion if someone was really serious about a LSD but satisfied with the gear ratio, this would be the way "I" would pursue it. Maybe it would work maybe not.
 
ILLS said:
What more information do you need on the turbocharged LS? I hope you do not think I will give out full parts lists for the heck of it? I am sorry but if people really want a turbo for their LS then they can either talk with me, talk to another shop, or take the time to design and build their own. This is a car site and I provide tons of free performance advice and guidance here on the open forum and especially through PM, but the exact parts breakdown details on the turbo system are not going to be released except to customers.

Now, if you are talking about power results? Those will come in time but I feel my initial power estimates to be pretty accurate. The turbo has not even been done for a month, is 95% tuned and frankly I have not had much time to put the final touches on it and turn the wick up to 6 psi boost.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Let's keep THIS on topic.
 
02LSE96LSC91SE84TC said:
My comment didn't just come from the 10 second eyeballing. That came only after realizing it may be possible based on a few things I learned along the way on the project. Not just from what the other memeber showed. DTS also said the guts bolt in but the pinion was what needed to be worked out. DTS also suggested the Traction Lock while retaining the LS ring and pinion could work but since I wanted to gear up never concluded. Still alot left to figure.


Again its a "possibility" and "never been done".

so in conclusion if someone was really serious about a LSD but satisfied with the gear ratio, this would be the way "I" would pursue it. Maybe it would work maybe not.
Click to expand...


Jason you have a PM. I will BS with you about this there since I do not want to take your thread off topic.
 
BTW 80MPH is 3000RPM. For those who were curious about the cruizing speeds. 65MPH is 2450RPM, I mentioned this before in the other thread I believe.
 
Okay I have a few questions.

What did you have done to the shaft, exactly.
Or would it just be easier to ask the shop to make another one like your's
How much did they charge to mod the shaft?


Did you do anything with the rubber quibo(sp) at the front end???
 
JES_LS said:
Okay I have a few questions.

What did you have done to the shaft, exactly.
Or would it just be easier to ask the shop to make another one like your's
How much did they charge to mod the shaft?


Did you do anything with the rubber quibo(sp) at the front end???
Click to expand...

What you see in the pic is what was done. The rest of the shaft is stock so yes the rubber damper is still on the trans end. Cost me $60 to have it packed and shipped to them and the modification shipped back to me was $289.75 so $350.

To make a custom 2 piece would cost alot and not sure if worth it, If I was gonna shell out some coin I'd want the center bearing gone. A one piece would require a adapter at the trans end, likely a slide shaft there like the one pictured above to clear the shifter linkage(never measured to be sure) then a big shaft back. The gas tank limits diameter. There is maybe 3/4" between the stock rear shaft which is 2 1/4" diameter and the gas tank. Never measured exactly but I can just get my hand between there. That would mean a 3 1/2" would MAYBE fit but tight. Your not going to get by with a smaller diameter and 4" may be needed with the taller gears. The one piece shaft would be in the neighborhood of 61". A person could POSSIBLY shim the IRS(not the diff the entire IRS) in the car for more clearance. I stuck with this way for now but do toy with the idea of a one piece. It would be nice to loose the other rubber coupler and ditch the center bearing. It bounces alot on high RPM hard shifts in SST, at least it feels like it, I backed my shift pressure down cause of it awhile back while still on stock gearing.
 
Figured I'd add this pic and videos here as the original threads have faded off.


http://media.putfile.com/02-LSE-0-60

http://media.putfile.com/02-LSE-0-60-wspinning

Posi Tracks.jpg
 
02LSE96LSC91SE84TC said:
If a person was capable of setting up there own ring and pinion they would only be out $200-$225 for the FRPP Traction Lock, could resell if didn't work. Actually a used one can be had for alot less tested and rebuilt if found to work.

Also Quik seems to have this set up started already. I PMed him on if he had a entire 8.8 guts in the stock LS diff or was it a 8.8 unit with the stock 8.0 ring and pinion fitted into the stock LS diff. He didn't know or want to tell me. Anyways if the bearing and main caps fit thats a good start but yes it hasn't been all figured out yet.

What do I care...I'm set already:D.
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If it is a matter of setting up the TractionLock carrier in the LS case, it should be a very easy swap for any moderately skilled DIY'er. The pinion depth won't change as we aren't messing with the pinion. Only the carrier bearing preload and backlash will need to be set. Here is the part of a good article relating to that very thing. http://www.corral.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95&Itemid=26&limit=1&limitstart=3
Mustang TL's axles are 28 spline. 28 spline TL carriers should be almost free, as 28 spline axles don't hold up to stickshift launches on slicks for very long. Mustang guys upgrade to 31 spline often. The only special tools need would be a magnetic based dial indicator, a bearing press, and of course, hand tools, and a torque wrench.
 
I'm sorry to jack, but I have a quick question...

Where can I find an 8.8 with 4.10's and Trac-Loc? What cars in a junkyard would have them or just in general where?
They are a coveted item among Jeep Wrangler owners over the terrible Dana35 rear axle.
 
You'll have to get your own IRS 8.8 pumpkin and build it with a trac-loc and gears. I don't know of any cars that were IRS that came with 4.10s. Solid axle rears, I believe the Mountaineer/Explorers of a few years ago came with them.
 
Gus_Mahn said:
If it is a matter of setting up the TractionLock carrier in the LS case, it should be a very easy swap for any moderately skilled DIY'er. The pinion depth won't change as we aren't messing with the pinion. Only the carrier bearing preload and backlash will need to be set. Here is the part of a good article relating to that very thing. http://www.corral.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95&Itemid=26&limit=1&limitstart=3
Mustang TL's axles are 28 spline. 28 spline TL carriers should be almost free, as 28 spline axles don't hold up to stickshift launches on slicks for very long. Mustang guys upgrade to 31 spline often. The only special tools need would be a magnetic based dial indicator, a bearing press, and of course, hand tools, and a torque wrench.
Click to expand...


You are operating off one assumption that could throw a wrench in your whole "easy swap for any moderately skilled DIY'er" plan . Are the carriers similar enough between the 8.0" and the 8.8" to allow an 8.8" LSD carrier to swap into the LS case with the original LS ring and pinion? Swapping to the entire ring and pinion plus the 8.8" carrier is very unlikely to work. The reason is that there will be a .4" difference in center to edge spacing between the 8.0" ring and the 8.8" ring. That difference will cause the gears to not mesh correctly between the 8.8" ring and pinion if attempted to be stuffed into an LS 8.0" case; which would try to force them .4" closer together than normal.

There are two additional possibilities that have been discussed in detail on the matter of getting an LSD into the LS without having to do the full swap like Jason and I did. One is the 8.8" LSD carrier swap to stock LS case, ring & pinion. I am not aware of anyone else having taken detailed measurements of the two carriers side by side. I have both in my garage now but I just have not taken the time to get out there, tear them both down and take some good measurements with my machinists calipers. The other is a Powertrax into the 8.0" carrier. Once again, assuming that the 8.0" carrier tolerances are the same internally as the 8.8" to allow the PTX to swap in without machining.



NYC LS8 said:
You'll have to get your own IRS 8.8 pumpkin and build it with a trac-loc and gears. I don't know of any cars that were IRS that came with 4.10s. Solid axle rears, I believe the Mountaineer/Explorers of a few years ago came with them.
Click to expand...



If he is really lucky he might run across someone's junked Cobra that had 4.10's already stuffed into it. That would be pretty lucky though. I know the 96-01 Explorers came with the solid axle 8.8" but it had 31 spline axles. The 02+ have 8.8" IRS with 31 spline.
 
Would there be any really noticeable differences with an LSD and stock gears? Someone said something earlier to the effect that they were hardly needed.
 
An LSD with a stock set-up would surely help in the winter months around here. Never had a problem driving my 87 or 92 LSC in the snow or busting out of spots where I was plowed in. Not happening with the LS. Believe me, I've tried. :(
 
blackls said:
Would there be any really noticeable differences with an LSD and stock gears? Someone said something earlier to the effect that they were hardly needed.
Click to expand...

In a highly modified LS with nitrous, turbo, or supercharger yes I would consider an LSD very necessary. On a regular bolton LS like most on the site I would not consider it necessary with stock ratio gears. Even when I ran 14.2's while N/A in my LS I didn't have any real traction issues to be concerned with.

However, LSD and gears like what Jason and I did on his LS would be a great swap for you guys that are looking for the next level of performance in your cars above the normal bolton mods. There is something else I might have in the works for you N/A guys also. I am trying to convince Jason to do it with his car, but we will see. Money doesn't fall from tree's though.
 
Some F-150s had 4.10's in their 8.8. And if my memory serves me correctly, the 00 Cobra R had 31 spline 8.8 traclock w/ 4.10 in an aluminum carrier. Don't quote me on that though... could have been 3.73... and besides; you're not going to find one of those anyway!

Anyone try the powertrax? An LSD would be really nice for those days where I take the car out in the snow up here (although it's usually the truck that sees snow service)!
 
Jason and Rob,

Its been a while since ive came onto these boards now that im a VW driver (please no neg comments for me :( ) But last time i heard about this project is when I dropped off my stock LS diff at Robs house. Did you guys ever find a good use for it??

Jason, I saw your vid of the 0-60, OH MY GOD, that is amazing man!! congrats. If you guys go up to GLD this spring, I want in please let me know, ill bring tim (kid with 03 LS8 who Rob tuned..) Mad props to both of you, im on my florida vacation right now and just spent a good hour reading the turbo and LSD threads..

-Devin
 
DeviLSh said:
Jason and Rob,

Its been a while since ive came onto these boards now that im a VW driver (please no neg comments for me :( ) But last time i heard about this project is when I dropped off my stock LS diff at Robs house. Did you guys ever find a good use for it??

Jason, I saw your vid of the 0-60, OH MY GOD, that is amazing man!! congrats. If you guys go up to GLD this spring, I want in please let me know, ill bring tim (kid with 03 LS8 who Rob tuned..) Mad props to both of you, im on my florida vacation right now and just spent a good hour reading the turbo and LSD threads..

-Devin
Click to expand...


Devin it is good to hear from you bud. Your stock diff was used for mockup in the planning stages of the project.

What VW do you have? I plan to do a custom turbo on the bro's VR6 Jetta this coming summer actually.
 
DeviLSh said:
Jason and Rob,

Its been a while since ive came onto these boards now that im a VW driver (please no neg comments for me :( ) But last time i heard about this project is when I dropped off my stock LS diff at Robs house. Did you guys ever find a good use for it??

Jason, I saw your vid of the 0-60, OH MY GOD, that is amazing man!! congrats. If you guys go up to GLD this spring, I want in please let me know, ill bring tim (kid with 03 LS8 who Rob tuned..) Mad props to both of you, im on my florida vacation right now and just spent a good hour reading the turbo and LSD threads..

-Devin
Click to expand...
Thanks. She runs pretty strong.

Your cover is in my car on the 8.8, I left mine assembled. Rob still has the rest of your diff for experimenting.
 
NYC LS8 said:
You'll have to get your own IRS 8.8 pumpkin and build it with a trac-loc and gears. I don't know of any cars that were IRS that came with 4.10s. Solid axle rears, I believe the Mountaineer/Explorers of a few years ago came with them.
Click to expand...

03-04 Mustang Cobras-IRS, aluminum pumpkin, 3:55's or 3:73, 31 spline axles. (99-02 IRS Cobras had 28 spline axles). You can get these real cheap because any Cobra owner making over the advertised 390 hp, swaps them out for a straight axle.
 
NicksGTR said:
03-04 Mustang Cobras-IRS, aluminum pumpkin, 3:55's or 3:73, 31 spline axles. (99-02 IRS Cobras had 28 spline axles). You can get these real cheap because any Cobra owner making over the advertised 390 hp, swaps them out for a straight axle.
Click to expand...



No they do not. There are plenty of Cobra owners pushing well past 600+ hp on the 8.8 IRS. Usually when they get past about 550rwhp is when they swap to the DSS Level 5 halfshafts and hubs though. Actually a very small percentage of Cobra owners swap from their IRS to solid even when modified.

If a person is trying to locate an 8.8 pumpkin it is best to just go for a Mark 8 one. They are much easier to locate and much cheaper as well.
 
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