Fuel issues

num1bigguy

num1bigguy

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hour north of detroit
I have been looking but can’t seem to find a fuse or relay for fuel pump. 2002 Conti
Went out into driveway to start car and warm it up, because it’s cold. Car started and ran right. Went back into house. Came back a few minutes later and it had stalled and won’t restart. I don’t hear the fuel pump whine anymore. Either a fuse or relay is bad or it’s my lucky day and I get to do a pump.
 
If you can -- check the fuel pressure.
This past mid-November my '02 would not start.
It had 6 psig fuel pressure. It should be in the 35-40 psig range.
My mechanic put in a new pump - all is well.
Also - don't forget to check/replace the fuel filter.
I don't have my service manuals handy - so can't help with the fuses etc.
For reference - my '02 had 83K miles on it when the pump quit.
 
FlaOkie said:
If you can -- check the fuel pressure.
This past mid-November my '02 would not start.
It had 6 psig fuel pressure. It should be in the 35-40 psig range.
My mechanic put in a new pump - all is well.
Also - don't forget to check/replace the fuel filter.
I don't have my service manuals handy - so can't help with the fuses etc.
For reference - my '02 had 83K miles on it when the pump quit.
Click to expand...
Ouch. Only 83k. I'm at 148k. I poured through the workshop manuals I have for the car. If anyone else sees this there is no fuse or relay for the pump. Hopefully for my sake its just the pump. Thank you!
 
num1bigguy said:
Ouch. Only 83k. I'm at 148k. I poured through the workshop manuals I have for the car. If anyone else sees this there is no fuse or relay for the pump. Hopefully for my sake its just the pump. Thank you!
Click to expand...
For future reference: -----

As I recall the '02 Conti has what is called a returnless fuel system.

In the older type return systems, the fuel pump runs at one constant speed. A pressure regulator is used to return unused fuel back to the tank.
This maintains the proper fuel pressure to the injectors.

The newer returnless type system uses a pressure sensor at the fuel rails to maintain the correct pressure by constantly changing the speed of the fuel pump.
The pressure sensor signal goes to a computer module, which actually varies the fuel pump speed and monitors it's operation.
 
num1bigguy said:
Ouch. Only 83k. I'm at 148k. I poured through the workshop manuals I have for the car. If anyone else sees this there is no fuse or relay for the pump. Hopefully for my sake its just the pump. Thank you!
Click to expand...
On my 2001 the fuel pump relay is called the PCM Power Relay. It can be swapped with the Blower relay next to it for testing. I just got my fuel pump replaced. Twenty years seems to be the lifespan for the original pumps, but only 95K miles. For some time the car had been slow to start after sitting and I could smell gas while driving. The mechanic said the fuel pump housing was cracked. So I had some warning that the pump was about to go.

Now can you give me a tip on removing the the front passenger door panel? I removed the five screws, but the clips are really strong and tight. So far I've only been able to pop the middle one on the bottom. I need to replace the RH mirror.

Thanks
 
joegr said:
Relay 7 in the battery junction box in the trunk. Even the owner's manual points it out.
Click to expand...
I may be wrong, but I think we might be getting terms mixed up.
From what I see in the 2002 Conti wiring manual:

The fuel pump and it's module do not have separately labeled "fuel pump" fuses.
The fuel pump and it's module get power from different outputs from the PCM.

There is a PCM "power relay" (F1.7 fuse - fuse 7 in owners manual) in the battery fuse box.
(I believe, the PCM uses this 12 VDC to feed power to different systems, one of which is the fuel pump/module system.)

There is also a starter relay in the battery fuse box. (Next to the blower motor relay).
 
Sorry, I did get confused. I was answering for an LS. Sorry about that.
 
On my 2002 there is a Fuel pump control module in the trunk attached to the back of the back seat. My shop thought it was bad. Hard to find part, but I did locate 29 of them in a warehouse in Memphis TN. Also Dorman solutions makes a control module that crosses with our cars parts, and I spoke to a rep with that company to verify. Auto parts stores claim it doesn't fit our cars. They are mistaken. Ultimately my car had a corroded wire running to pump supplying less voltage. Bad wire, caused pump failure. I'm back on the road for a touch under $500.
 
2001LincCont said:
On my 2001 the fuel pump relay is called the PCM Power Relay. It can be swapped with the Blower relay next to it for testing. I just got my fuel pump replaced. Twenty years seems to be the lifespan for the original pumps, but only 95K miles. For some time the car had been slow to start after sitting and I could smell gas while driving. The mechanic said the fuel pump housing was cracked. So I had some warning that the pump was about to go.

Now can you give me a tip on removing the the front passenger door panel? I removed the five screws, but the clips are really strong and tight. So far I've only been able to pop the middle one on the bottom. I need to replace the RH mirror.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Keep tugging on it. The clips are very tight. There are 2 screws along bottom, one on the side near door lock, and the 2 in the door pull pocket. I personally have removed both door panels recently trying to figure out why passenger window just clicks and won't move, and my drivers window the sash clips pulled free from the glass on a frozen day in Michigan a couple years ago. A junkyard window has repaired the drivers side, still can't figure out why the passenger side just clicks. I like to start tugging on door panel around the edges. Then it can be lifted off the top and around the door lock knob. The interior door handle stays on the door. I hope this helps. A panel popper tool could be used to get to most clips from an edge.
 
num1bigguy said:
Keep tugging on it. The clips are very tight. There are 2 screws along bottom, one on the side near door lock, and the 2 in the door pull pocket. I personally have removed both door panels recently trying to figure out why passenger window just clicks and won't move, and my drivers window the sash clips pulled free from the glass on a frozen day in Michigan a couple years ago. A junkyard window has repaired the drivers side, still can't figure out why the passenger side just clicks. I like to start tugging on door panel around the edges. Then it can be lifted off the top and around the door lock knob. The interior door handle stays on the door. I hope this helps. A panel popper tool could be used to get to most clips from an edge.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the door panel advice.

I think there is some type of clutch that prevents the window motor from engaging if too much force is required. A rear window got stuck up after I hadn't lowered it in a few months. There was a click but no movement. I used a suction cup on the window so I could apply downward force at the same time I operated the switch. It worked. I then cleaned the window and applied silicone spray to the weather stripping around the window opening (top, sides and bottom). I did have to clean the silicone off the window a few times and now I make sure to operate the window once a week.
 
2001LincCont said:
Thanks for the door panel advice.

I think there is some type of clutch that prevents the window motor from engaging if too much force is required. A rear window got stuck up after I hadn't lowered it in a few months. There was a click but no movement. I used a suction cup on the window so I could apply downward force at the same time I operated the switch. It worked. I then cleaned the window and applied silicone spray to the weather stripping around the window opening (top, sides and bottom). I did have to clean the silicone off the window a few times and now I make sure to operate the window once a week.
Click to expand...
I may have to give this a try as I'm out of ideas. I replaced motor and it wasn't even bad. It worked using my alligator clips hooked directly to battery(the old motor). I will wait for warmer weather before I try to force it. It's 15 degrees and snowing today here in Michigan. I'm not sure about the possible clutch as my drivers side window ripped the clips glued onto the glass right off when the window was frozen up in the winter.
 
num1bigguy said:
Ouch. Only 83k. I'm at 148k. I poured through the workshop manuals I have for the car. If anyone else sees this there is no fuse or relay for the pump. Hopefully for my sake its just the pump. Thank you!
Click to expand...
They have a multiplex system the fuel pump relay control module is tied into the cooling fans control module on the front of the car. I believe the fuse for the pump itself is tied into the pcm, ecm. I can look into more in the service manual if you need me to just let me know!
 
FlaOkie said:
If you can -- check the fuel pressure.
This past mid-November my '02 would not start.
It had 6 psig fuel pressure. It should be in the 35-40 psig range.
My mechanic put in a new pump - all is well.
Also - don't forget to check/replace the fuel filter.
I don't have my service manuals handy - so can't help with the fuses etc.
For reference - my '02 had 83K miles on it when the pump quit.
Click to expand...
I was curious now that I'm repaired and back on the road, if you've had any issues with cold starts. it seems my car is now hard to start after it has sat for a while. I've been finding out that if I cycle the key a few times before beginning to crank that it does start a little easier. My car has always been a key tap nearly to start before the fuel pump change. Sometimes it will sound like it caught and I'll stop cranking and it doesn't run. Cycle the key again and then it cranks for 5-7 seconds before it starts. This morning of 2-28 I tried to cycle the key a few times and it did seem to start better. Are you experiencing this? I was unable to easily source an OEM brand pump. I was forced into the $250 Delphi pump.
 
We don't get real cold, but even on a cool morning, mine starts right up.
My replacement pump was also a Delphi unit.
As usual, these days, there can be many different reasons that can be the problem.
The first one I think of is the fuel system is not holding it's pressure after sitting for a while.
Either through a small leak in the recent work, or a partially stuck open injector.
Cycling the key runs the pump and builds up the pressure.
If you had a shop do the work, I would take it back and have them check it out.
Check the fuel pressure from a cold start
 
Spoke to the guy that did the work. He said there is supposed to be a check ball that seats and stops the back flow of fuel. It appears mine isn't seating correctly. Ooof. Thank you FlaOkie. Temp has never mattered to how it starts. Before the pump change it would only crank 2-3 seconds and fire right up, even when its below zero degrees outside. Since I cycle the key a few times it basically re-primes the system.
 
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