fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
And it appears you like to have the last word, much like a woman. I'd rather be me.It appears you like to argue just for the sake of arguement.
And it appears you like to have the last word, much like a woman. I'd rather be me.It appears you like to argue just for the sake of arguement.
And your point is that because Girls Gone Wild is a big seller, gay marriage should be sanctioned by the government? Wow, talk about a non sequitur. You win first prize in the "Most Logically Flawed Argument Contest."It has not been discredited. If it had, there wouldn't be any discussion here or elsewhere. An differing opinion has been offered. Nothing more.
Do you wish to make love to someone of your own sex? Are you opposed to it due to religion/law, or because it doesn't excite you? So for another of the same sex to want to be with the same sex you say is just a decision they make, as with what they will have for dinner? Oy.
"Weather or not there is actual hypocrisy"? What rock are you living under? Look around. Google the Girls Gone Wild Videos, Penthouse, or the scores of mainstream (not to mention fetish) movies (adult or otherwise). Women together is hot and sells. And it's homosexual, yet approved. Even though some women find it nauseating, an overwhelming majority of men don't if the gals are good looking.
Nothing has been "discredited". An opinion has been stated. There is no "proof" either way, only statistics and actual nature. "Groundless spin"? No, it's actual reality, not fabricated harping.
"make specific, disprovable arguments" Huh? That's against the point isn't it? If it was "disprovable" then why state it? Opinions are one thing, reality is another.
More will oppose in writing or public things that in private they will download/enjoy.
"Weather or not there is actual hypocrisy"? What rock are you living under? Look around. Google the Girls Gone Wild Videos, Penthouse, or the scores of mainstream (not to mention fetish) movies (adult or otherwise). Women together is hot and sells. And it's homosexual, yet approved. Even though some women find it nauseating, an overwhelming majority of men don't if the gals are good looking.
It is relevant when it comes to claiming certain rights. If someone is born a certain way, the case for claiming certain rights is rather strong. If, on the other hand, someone is not born that way, that claim is very weak.
True
In fact, the homosexual community has been pushing the idea that being gay is natural and one is born with it, under the assumption that society will be more accepting of gays and of the gay rights agenda if it is viewed as biological and natural. Homosexual, gay rights activist, and scientist Simon LeVay admitted as much when he said, "...people who think that gays and lesbians are born that way are also more likely to support gay rights."
I have to disagree with you here I think some gays feel they were born that way if it could be proven it would be a boost in self esteem.... gay rights agenda may not be the only reason.
The political agenda more as much as anything effect the views of what causes homosexuality. Dr. Tahir I. Jaz, M.D., Winnipeg, Canada states: "The increasing claims of being "born that way" parallels the rising political activism of homosexual organizations, who politicize the issue of homosexual origins . In the 1970s, approximately ten percent of homosexuals claimed to be "born homosexual" according to a large scale survey....However, in a survey in the 1980s, with the homosexual rights movement increasingly becoming active, thirty-five percent claimed to be born that way."
As you can see, "why someone is gay" has become politicized, and has become a part of the current debate on this issue.
I doubt that society will change any time soon on this issue. Right now, society is not changing, unelected individuals (judgees) are forcing change to their own agenda on society. When society is left to choose they consistently reject gay marriage here in America.
LOL I think we just might agree on this oneAnd your point is that because Girls Gone Wild is a big seller, gay marriage should be sanctioned by the government? Wow, talk about a non sequitur. You win first prize in the "Most Logically Flawed Argument Contest."
Let us know if you're going to actually construct an argument. Otherwise I can just skim past your posts since they're nothing but "differiing opinions, nothing more."
And your point is that because Girls Gone Wild is a big seller, gay marriage should be sanctioned by the government? Wow, talk about a non sequitur. You win first prize in the "Most Logically Flawed Argument Contest."
Let us know if you're going to actually construct an argument. Otherwise I can just skim past your posts since they're nothing but "differiing opinions, nothing more."
Once again, you're using a false comparison. You're using the sales of pornography to illustrate support for gays. That's a red herring. Men who watch pornography want to see girl on girl not because of the gayness of it, but because of the nudity and the sex. It's about naked women, and two are better than one, and three are better than two, and so on. Men aren't watching that thinking, "Wow this is so gay, I love it. Way to go gays!" If you're claiming that, then you're more ignorant than I originally thought.Maybe you should look up that phrase you use too much in places it doesn't belong. Or you just like the comic.
The point is the hypocrisy. "Society doesn't support gays". Society most certainly does, with millions/billions of dollars when the chicks are hot. Mainstream society buying Hustler, paying to see Basic Instinct, and on and on.
As I said, and you so conveniently missed, the same abhorrent arguments were used not so very long ago for interracial and interfaith marriage. Same contrived "logic".
Fossten, I'm on your side on this, I'm Christian raised, and believe that the acceptance of gay marriage is a show of the times, as it says that at the end of times, that Homosexual relations would be accepted, and that the anti-Christ would himself be a Homosexual, and whether America shows support for gay marriage is up to the individual people in each state, either way you look at it, almost every religion on Earth, is against gay marriage. The Holy Bible its self, which is used in most Heterosexual marriages, says that Homosexuality is an abomination of god, as so marriage is "HOLY MATRIMONY" since it was created at the beginning of all, NT: (1 Corinthians 7:2) “… each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.” there is nothing holy about gay anything in any of the major religions, (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." And in regards to the porn bit, Fossten is correct, men in regards to the normal perameters of a Hetero male, are usually infatuated with the female body, and most women in these pornographys do not go by this "Lifestyle choice" they do it for the money, and men buy it. I personally think that America has taken big steps allowing Gay relations, instead of following the old ways of the death penalty if you were found to be gay in colonial times, gays are allowed and no one messes with them, but now they DEMAND marriage rights, a little greedy if you ask me, it took 250 years for Blacks to get to where they are, and they still aren't fully accepted, gays have been really proclaiming themselves for maybe, 50-60 years, I think they are doing well to be disliked by the majority of the world. And please stop using the word Homophobia, a phobia implies you are scared of that particular thing or idea, my cousin is gay, doesn't mean i was afraid to bust his mouth wide open and knock him out 3 months ago when he called his mom a B**ch in front of me for not letting his boyfriend come over, I'm not scared of Homosexuals/ality, I just dislike it, and openly display disdain for it. And its not hereditary, it is a choice of whether you like whats between a woman's legs, or behind a man's.
What the hell was that? To discuss something you have to say it so it can be shown to be false? Where did you skip school?
You haven't shown anything to be irrelevant. You've pretended things aren't as they are. It's a nice fantasy world but that is all it is. Walk outside and get a dose of actual reality.
What "facts" did you cite? An opinion. A study. Let me tell you about studies so you'll be better informed. They involve a sample, and only the sample. Someone decides how large it is, and what is kept and tossed. They also decide where the sample is taken. And then how to present the results.
Now, since you aren't talking about identifiable markers, but assertions as to how someone feels they are one way or another, there will never be a locked down scientific data presentation. It's conjecture.
My statements are based in the real world.
If that's too much for you to handle, it's not my fault. Keep your head in the sand and pretend it's not there.
Hmm. Actually, I was enjoying the smackdown rather immensely.I reiterate; grow up, gain some intellectual integrity here and learn how to validly construct an argument. Then come back and we can discuss. Until then, please, buzz off. You are only distracting from the debate here.
Fossten, I'm on your side on this, I'm Christian raised, and believe that the acceptance of gay marriage is a show of the times, as it says that at the end of times, that Homosexual relations would be accepted, and that the anti-Christ would himself be a Homosexual, and whether America shows support for gay marriage is up to the individual people in each state, either way you look at it, almost every religion on Earth, is against gay marriage. The Holy Bible its self, which is used in most Heterosexual marriages, says that Homosexuality is an abomination of god, as so marriage is "HOLY MATRIMONY" since it was created at the beginning of all, NT: (1 Corinthians 7:2) “… each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.” there is nothing holy about gay anything in any of the major religions, (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." And in regards to the porn bit, Fossten is correct, men in regards to the normal perameters of a Hetero male, are usually infatuated with the female body, and most women in these pornographys do not go by this "Lifestyle choice" they do it for the money, and men buy it. I personally think that America has taken big steps allowing Gay relations, instead of following the old ways of the death penalty if you were found to be gay in colonial times, gays are allowed and no one messes with them, but now they DEMAND marriage rights, a little greedy if you ask me, it took 250 years for Blacks to get to where they are, and they still aren't fully accepted, gays have been really proclaiming themselves for maybe, 50-60 years, I think they are doing well to be disliked by the majority of the world. And please stop using the word Homophobia, a phobia implies you are scared of that particular thing or idea, my cousin is gay, doesn't mean i was afraid to bust his mouth wide open and knock him out 3 months ago when he called his mom a B**ch in front of me for not letting his boyfriend come over, I'm not scared of Homosexuals/ality, I just dislike it, and openly display disdain for it. And its not hereditary, it is a choice of whether you like whats between a woman's legs, or behind a man's.
Daniel 11:37 "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all." Though not a stand in you face way of saying "GAY!!!" The ant-christ is the devil in human form, represent all that is evil, I highly doubt he would over look Lust.Where does it state that the Anti-Christ will be a homosexual? That's a new one for me.
OMG its the end of the world AGAIN
WOW the antichrist is gay
LOL what happened to turn the other cheek....and I wonder if jesus would bust his cuz in the chops
If that is christan raised you can keep it.
Funny how you bring race into the debate I guess we have to accept other races before we can ever accept homos huh ?
Ops forgot to do that sorry.Daniel 11:37 "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all." Though not a stand in you face way of saying "GAY!!!" The ant-christ is the devil in human form, represent all that is evil, I highly doubt he would over look Lust.
So if he Lusts, but has no desire to women, what does he Lust for, logically it would be other men. Though this can't be proven, like much of the bible, but can't be disproven either.
Maybe dogs and cats ?
Though I did say I was a born and raised Christian, I admit I fall short of the Holy standard, and that though I follow the religion and believe in it very much, I am a sinner, but these sins can be forgiven. Though it was wrong to hit him, it was wrong of him to dishonor his mother, and he goes without any disipline since his father die several years ago, not my place to do anything I admit, but he has yet to curse at her again in the past few months.
ah the old stand by...but yet I am a sinner, its the ez out good christains always take. I also guess two wrongs make a right seeing how the gay dude has been watching his tonuge.
Also, the reason for my bringing up racial issues, is to show that society has yet to fully accept other races, and I beleive it will take a lot longer to accept something that has been against one of our cardinal rules for the past 2,000 or more years, and the gays rushing it with their "Here, queer, get use to it" rallys and stuff isn't helping, it offends people who are highly traditional by making it seem that they are forcfully making society accept them, in which, on some level they are.
It is a step in society that doesn't need to be rushed.
It was not that long ago a black man was hung from a tree for saying I DO to a white woman. Society changed, and it will again, and I dare to think the world wont go down in flames because of it, but I bet a few white men in white hoods thought it would.
Oh, and thanks for the "Welcomes", most forums you immediately get cursed at for expressing any differing opinion, at least you guys have some ability to comprehend that others have opinions that are different from your own.
Dude...I'm tempted to let this go, considering it's OFF TOPIC, but...nah, once you've got the fish on the hook, might as well reel the sucker in.LOL what happened to turn the other cheek....and I wonder if jesus would bust his cuz in the chops
John 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
Dude...I'm tempted to let this go, considering it's OFF TOPIC, but...nah, once you've got the fish on the hook, might as well reel the sucker in.
Also, if you read the part in the Bible (I know, I know, you don't read the Bible, but hey) about turning the other cheek, it's not difficult to see that Jesus was not preaching pacifism to Christians.
The Bible and Gun Control
Because you would have tried to use the "Old Testament is outdated" argument. I simply avoided that argument altogether.OMG you got me fossten but I hope you have your drag set
But I am surprised you went new testament I guess I started with the turn your cheek comment your right I know little from the Sermon on the Mount. I pictued you being a old skool guy why didnt you go with exodus 21:23 ?
Men who watch pornography want to see girl on girl not because of the gayness of it, but because of the nudity and the sex./QUOTE]
News flash; two women is homosexuality. Even if you like it.
That's the hypocrisy.
Where's the comment for the interracial/interfaith marriage arguments? It was always that way, until it wasn't.
For an argument to be valid it has to be provable or disprovable. That is basic knowledge if you have ever had any course in logic. "Disprovable" doesn't mean that the statement is false, it means that it is capable of being criticized and disproven or proven by objective facts and sound arguments.Well then; prove that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed. Not conjecture, not impression, not idea. Proof. Validate it, as they did against interfaith or interracial marriage.
You have only offered irrelevant claims of guys liking "girls gone wild" which says nothing about redefining marriage to allow for homosexuality, or homosexuality in general. On the other hand, I have offered a number of facts to back up my arguments.
No you haven't. You've offered opinions. As I already said, girl on girl IS homosexuality. Even if you like it. Since it is supported by most (and that's well over 51%) men, it's hypocrisy in its purest form. You can't give gays rights, but you can buy a gay product? Now that's funny.
You are reaching to draw conclusions about their moral and social views. Not at all. I'm noting their hypocrisy. Same as the closet drinking baptists.
What "real debate" are you referring to? So far you haven't accepted any reality in the discussion.
By your method of debate it would be fine to not be racist to light skinned blacks. Only the dark skinned ones. Because, after all, that's an entirely different thing.
You lack intellectual integrity if you look at lesbians differently than you do gay men. You, and so many others like you.