stihlboy
Well-Known LVC Member
the heck is passive steering??
Gen II V8 Sport - replaced rear lateral toe links
- Thread starter Deaconblue
- Start date
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
the adjustable links have small collapsible sections in them, as the front wheels turn like normal, the links temporary change in length and slightly change the direction the rear wheel is facing compared to the rest of the body of the car, unlike some cars that actually turn the rear wheels a little when the front wheels are being turned it is not an active system, but a passive one.
it helps to soften up hard sharp turns and allows the rear of the car to kinda follow and rotate around a little better.
there are some aftermarket parts that do not have this collapsible section and slightly change the dynamic of the cars handling.
it helps to soften up hard sharp turns and allows the rear of the car to kinda follow and rotate around a little better.
there are some aftermarket parts that do not have this collapsible section and slightly change the dynamic of the cars handling.
stihlboy
Well-Known LVC Member
Huh, never knew that... my lateral link on the driver side is bad.....like floor it and rear turns left bad... thanks for the info!
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
no problem, thats pretty much what mine was doing before i replaced them, when you were on the gas it turned one direction, and when you were off the gas it turned the other direction.
I can get the factory part for $200 ea. I would gladly pay for the OEM parts to keep the original handling dynamics. It's not just about taking corners at speed. There are other things that have to be taken into consideration. The passive rear steering adds a capability most cars don't have and that capability has allowed me to avoid many accidents instigated by dim witted drivers here in Florida. Honestly, there is probably little difference under normal driving conditions. During extreme maneuvers however, the difference will be realized. I have absolutely no on center feel in my steering (the way I like it) and with the way I take corners, the passive steering works for "me". I have my front setup with a very slight negative toe which means I really have to stay on top of it. The down side is some instability on rutted crowned asphalt roads (not so much on concrete). The up side is I can change lanes almost by just thinking about it and I never have to saw at the wheel to make corrections. Even in wet weather, I've never experienced front-end plow. I can understand why others might not like this though. It is by no means loose feeling in the rear. My links have 94,000 miles on them and look quite new. I still think Ford had the best idea versus the Jaguar way which is why IMO the LS feels sportier and more confidence inspiring than an S-Type around corners. I've driven a few and felt a bit insecure driving them.
RigsLS
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Messages
- 7,756
- Reaction score
- 532
Given worn out suspension and other related linkages in the rear, it just sways and body rolls like crazy. When I redid all my rear suspension with the Sport shocks and Eibach lowering springs all around, Upper control arms, sway bar end links and these aftermarket Non-Passive rear toe adjust end link, the whole ride just became so damn tight and smooth, the way it was intended to handle.
My preference is to lose the Passive steering flex in the rear.
For now, on the new to me 04 V8 LSE, it's getting two new rear UCA's to get rid of some clicking sounds, two new beef'ed up MOOG sway bar end links and two new from UK Jaguar aftermarket Non-Passive toe adjust linkages. I'm not going to do anything with the springs and shocks for now, maybe next summer. The front is getting two new outer tie rods, drives side is worn out, and the front is getting the upgraded MOOG sway bar end links.
Our 03 V8, is getting one new UCA on the rear passenger side, one used (from my 01) UCA on the rear drivers side, two new OEM ford Passive rear toe adjust end linkages. The 03 has blown up runner boots on the toe adjust linkages and the UCA's are also worn to the point where a clicking sound is present. This can be confirmed with a load on the car, basically not lifted and grab the tire at the twelve o'clock position while aggressively beginning to shake the car sideways, if you hear a click click click sound as it bounces sideways it's an indication the rear UCA are in need of replacement. If you can hear clicking sounds simply while driving around, it's a good bet it needs UCA's as well.
I'm glad to do all this refreshing of parts work on a couple of LS around here but these parts are not cheap by no means. For both cars not including my 01 which is already done, I'm in for about a $1000 in parts, this is mostly for UCA's and end links, couple of other parts as well.
Gotta pay to play.
My preference is to lose the Passive steering flex in the rear.
For now, on the new to me 04 V8 LSE, it's getting two new rear UCA's to get rid of some clicking sounds, two new beef'ed up MOOG sway bar end links and two new from UK Jaguar aftermarket Non-Passive toe adjust linkages. I'm not going to do anything with the springs and shocks for now, maybe next summer. The front is getting two new outer tie rods, drives side is worn out, and the front is getting the upgraded MOOG sway bar end links.
Our 03 V8, is getting one new UCA on the rear passenger side, one used (from my 01) UCA on the rear drivers side, two new OEM ford Passive rear toe adjust end linkages. The 03 has blown up runner boots on the toe adjust linkages and the UCA's are also worn to the point where a clicking sound is present. This can be confirmed with a load on the car, basically not lifted and grab the tire at the twelve o'clock position while aggressively beginning to shake the car sideways, if you hear a click click click sound as it bounces sideways it's an indication the rear UCA are in need of replacement. If you can hear clicking sounds simply while driving around, it's a good bet it needs UCA's as well.
I'm glad to do all this refreshing of parts work on a couple of LS around here but these parts are not cheap by no means. For both cars not including my 01 which is already done, I'm in for about a $1000 in parts, this is mostly for UCA's and end links, couple of other parts as well.
Gotta pay to play.
Bumping a dead thread here. Deal with it!
BR - these you linked to:
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-XR825750P
Looks like they would fit a gen 2, right? Says Jag vin-vin so no year comparison unfortunately.
$80 for what looks like two nice units seems too good to be true. These *DO NOT* have the passive steering, correct? At this point, I don't care what ones I get, I just need them. Would prefer w/o, but ill take either.
BR - these you linked to:
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-XR825750P
Looks like they would fit a gen 2, right? Says Jag vin-vin so no year comparison unfortunately.
$80 for what looks like two nice units seems too good to be true. These *DO NOT* have the passive steering, correct? At this point, I don't care what ones I get, I just need them. Would prefer w/o, but ill take either.
elephantrider
Dedicated LVC Member
correct.. those do NOT have the passive steer option. i hated that feature on the car... when i redid
the suspension, i got the non passive versions as well.
the suspension, i got the non passive versions as well.
Why do you guys hate the LS rotating through a corner instead of plowing through? I love the feeling of the car rotating around the driver's seat. 4-wheel steering seems to be the holy grail of suspension design...
elephantrider
Dedicated LVC Member
i wouldn't describe it as plowing at all. it barely has enough power, anyway, to throw the end around.
it was more going down the hwy and you could feel the rear moving about.
it was more going down the hwy and you could feel the rear moving about.
elephantrider
Dedicated LVC Member
Those units weren't worn when i replaced them. They were fairly new units when I bought the car.
This is what I keep hearing. It seems to be a 50/50 love or hate the passive steering. I personally have never driven any other LS, and mine are worn to hell and back. Seems like the non-passive replacements are a bit cheaper too, which is the route I want to go since I only paid $400 for the car and really want it to last just until next year. Not looking for best performance/expensive parts if I don't have to. (Now the next clean/low mile/keeper LS I pick up will be a different story)
RigsLS
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Messages
- 7,756
- Reaction score
- 532
Actually it's preferred to pull up older threads related to the pending subject as apposed to starting yet another thread on the same subject.
You're good +1
yeah, those are good, all rear toe adjust links fit all year LS'es.
Btw;
Any "clicking" sounds in the rear is UCA ~ Upper Control Arms.
Any "squeaking" sounds in the rear while going over uneven surfaces is the LCA ~ Lower Control Arms
Squeaks in the rear are known as the TMC induced squeak affect. (TMC ~ Too Many Cheeseburgers)
To temporarily suspend that noise you can get underneath and soak the LCA's outside rubber pivot bushing with PD Blaster. (it won't last but a couple of weeks)
The rubber bushing in the outer pivot bushing is drying up and cracking, this is were that sound comes from. Trust me, I've put enough effort into it to find it with my buddy's automotive stethoscope. He's a licensed mechanic and we traced it down to that location. The outside Rubber bushing on the Lower control arms, mostly the right side. BP blasting resolved the problem instantly but squeak will return within a couple of weeks. Needs new LCA's (expensive)
My 04 needs new LCA's and I have a near brand new one for the right side going in soon. (thanks DevilSH)
Actually it's preferred to pull up older threads related to the pending subject as apposed to starting yet another thread on the same subject.
You're good +1
yeah, those are good, all rear toe adjust links fit all year LS'es.
Any "clicking" sounds in the rear is UCA ~ Upper Control Arms.
Any "squeaking" sounds in the rear while going over uneven surfaces is the LCA ~ Lower Control Arms
Squeaks in the rear are known as the TMC induced squeak affect. (TMC ~ Too Many Cheeseburgers)
To temporarily suspend that noise you can get underneath and soak the LCA's outside rubber pivot bushing with PD Blaster. (it won't last but a couple of weeks)
Well, usually I see members giving people crap for bumping up old threads. Ive never understood it, like you said, better to revive a thread with good info and add to it vs another Q&A thread.
Good info to know on those bushings. Ill get down there with some PB asap. Think anything else would work better, WD40, white lithium grease, etc? Its odd, thats the ONLY time they squeaked, was at her house. I had nothing but some junk in the trunk (lol) that had been in there for most of my trips in the LS. I do suffer from TMC though, and TMN. (too many nuggets)
I imagine the noise should get much better now with having installed a pair of subs in the trunk. (sarcasm)
RigsLS
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2012
- Messages
- 7,756
- Reaction score
- 532
You might have been maxing out. Rubber bushings possible got extended most, in your new ownership, while visiting her uneven driveway.
There's also the upper sway bar bushings, they can dry rot as well. But in my experience its cracking in the dry rotted rubber bushing on the right side Lower Control Arm.
I'm sure any good lube would work as the PB does, it's a matter of getting it in the open cracks and understanding it may or may not last a little.
There's also the upper sway bar bushings, they can dry rot as well. But in my experience its cracking in the dry rotted rubber bushing on the right side Lower Control Arm.
I'm sure any good lube would work as the PB does, it's a matter of getting it in the open cracks and understanding it may or may not last a little.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
thats usually when somebody bumps a dead thread asking somebody in the thread that hasent logged on in a few years a question that they will never see.
other than that, its the preferred way to handle it.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Quote Loud,
"not to mention, a lot of people are waiting until the OEM toe links are WAY past worn out and have been all loosey goosey for a good while... "
Shamefully,,, this would describe me... because all I have been able to do besides drive the wheels off the car,,, is keep up on fluid changes.
"not to mention, a lot of people are waiting until the OEM toe links are WAY past worn out and have been all loosey goosey for a good while... "
Shamefully,,, this would describe me... because all I have been able to do besides drive the wheels off the car,,, is keep up on fluid changes.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Quote Bigrig:
"I'm sure any good lube would work as the PB does, it's a matter of getting it in the open cracks...."
PB is the SH!T!!! PB and a propane torch will get about ANY frozen nut or bolt loose. Showed this to my son recently,,, with his frozen up, (junk), sway bar links on his Escape. Works well too for the cowl brace on an LS.
"I'm sure any good lube would work as the PB does, it's a matter of getting it in the open cracks...."
PB is the SH!T!!! PB and a propane torch will get about ANY frozen nut or bolt loose. Showed this to my son recently,,, with his frozen up, (junk), sway bar links on his Escape. Works well too for the cowl brace on an LS.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Been thinking about the passive rear steer,,, and it makes sense now why I haven't exactly trusted the LS in curves. Something never felt quite right to me. I have pushed the car... waiting for the rear to slide,,, but it never happened. The whole car just slid/drifted to the outside. Personally,,, I have always preferred a vehicle to have a bit of oversteer. If the backend starts to slide,,, I know how to correct that. If the front end starts to plow,,, I know how to correct that too. Neutral handling is a bit un-nerving to me.