Yeah, but those HP numbers from that era aren't reliable, nor comparable to modern engine ratings.
That 365 HP sounds like a gross rating, not SAE (net)
Good Engine rebuild kit?
- Thread starter Goddard-MarkVIII
- Start date
Yeah, but those HP numbers from that era aren't reliable, nor comparable to modern engine ratings.
That 365 HP sounds like a gross rating, not SAE (net)
turn_on68
Dedicated LVC Member
Is there a rule of thumb to convert those older ratings to the newer ratings?
ford nut
Local nut case
I have a motor that makes close to 1.5 HP per cubic inch 
I have a motor that makes close to 1.5 HP per cubic inch
my last little toy 1as 1.87 hp per cubic inch..
but your 1.5 per CI probably had double the HP my "Leetle svo" had
ford nut
Local nut case
Can you say lawn mower motor.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
Hot Damn!
MediumD
Dedicated LVC Member
Right, my mistake. I forgot it uses tokamak toroidal magnetic fields instead of fluid bearings. And instead of gaskets to keep fluids where they belong it uses liquified pixie dust. Because on such a radical engine using something as trivial as bolts or studs would be just silly, Ford went to the Lockheed Skunk Works and used some of their technology that's SO secret I can't mention it on this board to hold things together.
Look, these days there are plenty of DOHC motors, plenty of all aluminum motors, plenty of motors that share every characteristic of our 4v. This is 2009, not 1993.
Gross HP ratings have such little basis in reality and vary so widely between manufacturers and model years, there can't be a good rule of thumb to convert the ratings to net.
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
supercoupe.com sells a remanned i think for 2-3k don't they? I know advance does this for our car and its the same treatment for the cobra down to the part number. 3k or something but 3 year unlimited mile warranty
Some people are getting a little wrapped around the axle on the 4.6L; it's not THAT complex. Pick up the book put out by sean hyland motorsports on the 4.6L... really, the engine isn't that complex... just to some people because it doesn't have push-rods and a carb it's suddenly some sort of technological marvel.
Block: Versions in Iron and Aluminum with Iron Sleeves
Mains: Four bolt with two cross bolts (sometimes with jacking screws, sometimes not)
Rods: Typically Powdered metal, cracked cap (READ: JUNK)
Crank: Typically standard cast crank
Pistons: Typically Hypernatonic (a little better than cast)
Heads: Aluminum- SOHC and DOHC types (no different than any other OHC heads)
The important thing to note from above is that yes, things are a bit different than an old SBF or SBC... but, the theory of operation is the same (Otto four-cycle), and the components serve the same purposes. Clearances are easily achievable by any competent machine-shop and there are no expensive special tools required to assemble a modular engine that are not required for a push-rod engine.
Also, I would very much dispute the contention that no one can build it as good as ford did. Any time mass production is used to build something, accuracy is never going to compare to that of the same product hand built. A great example of this is the up to 12 degrees of timing variance from spec that is common on the DOHC 4.6L engines from the production line.
Make no doubt about it, anyone with some engine building experience and a GOOD manual in hand can EASILY build an engine better than what comes off Ford's production line. Denying this is just plain day dreaming. Now, when you start talking about a simple factory-spec replacement engine... well, a low miles salvage is almost always the most economical way to go.
Block: Versions in Iron and Aluminum with Iron Sleeves
Mains: Four bolt with two cross bolts (sometimes with jacking screws, sometimes not)
Rods: Typically Powdered metal, cracked cap (READ: JUNK)
Crank: Typically standard cast crank
Pistons: Typically Hypernatonic (a little better than cast)
Heads: Aluminum- SOHC and DOHC types (no different than any other OHC heads)
The important thing to note from above is that yes, things are a bit different than an old SBF or SBC... but, the theory of operation is the same (Otto four-cycle), and the components serve the same purposes. Clearances are easily achievable by any competent machine-shop and there are no expensive special tools required to assemble a modular engine that are not required for a push-rod engine.
Also, I would very much dispute the contention that no one can build it as good as ford did. Any time mass production is used to build something, accuracy is never going to compare to that of the same product hand built. A great example of this is the up to 12 degrees of timing variance from spec that is common on the DOHC 4.6L engines from the production line.
Make no doubt about it, anyone with some engine building experience and a GOOD manual in hand can EASILY build an engine better than what comes off Ford's production line. Denying this is just plain day dreaming. Now, when you start talking about a simple factory-spec replacement engine... well, a low miles salvage is almost always the most economical way to go.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
Have you tried to set up the timing chains in the DOHC with the same tools you use to put a timing chain on a push rod motor...
Being careful, it can, in theory be done without any special tools. I didn't say it's easy, but again... anyone who has some mechanical experience and can follow instructions should be able to do it. Yes, the cam positioning tools come in handy for either the SOHC or DOHC engine; but it's not impossible to do without.
Besides, they can be had for as low as $40 (I said expensive special tools)... that shouldn't break any one's bank who's rebuilding an engine. If it does, you've got no business rebuilding an engine.
Hemihed426
Active LVC Member
Ok, I've read about all this stuff I can about 4.6 4v's being so far out there that no one but a physicist can rebuild one. My God Ya'll sound like these these things have flux capacitors and run on unicorn piss. If you arm yourself with the right information and have the right tools and are willing to spend the cash and time to research the job it can be done. It sounds to me like alot of the naysayers are just scared to try it. Hey if the guy wants to do it let him at it. As far as the "factory" robots being able to lay a head better than a man, thats BS too. Who do you think installed those robots? The Borg? No, maintenance guys like me, and I'm no one special, just someone that prepares myself with the right info before I attempt any job.
I still stand by my original comment.
Of coruse if someone armed themselves with the knowledge and understanding they could successfully rebuild a mod motor.
BUT... look at the technical skill AVERAGE of the posts on this board.
DO YOU REALLY THINK these people that cant figure out a "no start issue".. or SCREW UP a fuel pump install... or cant figure out the VERY SIMPLE AIR RIDE SYSTEM are capable for rebuilding a mod motor?
Granted, you can skew this with any BULLCRAP you want.
The fact remains the same.
Take 10 users here, put them in front of a mod motor that has been taken apart and I'll show you 10 users that would have NO CLUE how to get it back together.
AGAIN.. MOD MOTORS are NOT for budding engine builders......
Hemihed426
Active LVC Member
OK, I'll agree with you that some posters on here probably don't have the mechanical skills to change a spark plug on a Briggs & Stratton mower engine, which begs the question of why they own one of these cars in the first place. These cars are getting older as we speak and if you don't have very deep pockets to pay somebody with some skills you probably should consider another car. I couldn't imagine having to pay somebody every time I've had to troubleshoot mine and by the way I've received some great tips from this board, but I consider my MKVIII a play toy and therefore am willing to take a few more chances when it comes to diagnosing it and fixing it. I guess I look at these cars from my experiences on machinery I work on at work and I figure if it was put together the first time I ought to be able to do it if I'm prepared with the right info.
I agree with you as well....
they aren't "impossible" to rebuild...
My thoughts were gears towards a noobie post that has for instance..timing chain rattle or the ever present broken valve spring.
Some would think the timing chain rattle was cause for a rebuild and if they ran across this thread talking about "how easy it is" then you'd have some n0b taking apart a perfectly fine engine..then turning a running car into a basket case...based on what they "heard" on this message board.
Also the broken valve spring that could be fixed in an "afternoon" might turn into a engine rebuild based on comments made here.
I'd rather have noobie users get the enjoyment out of their car, rather than beginning a rebuild and not being able to finish it.
by no means did I mean to imply these motors were "too hard" to rebuild.
But I danged sure didn't want some "mustang kid" that had put a short block into a 5.0 mustang THINK this engine could be rebuilt with that same "knowledge level".
they aren't "impossible" to rebuild...
My thoughts were gears towards a noobie post that has for instance..timing chain rattle or the ever present broken valve spring.
Some would think the timing chain rattle was cause for a rebuild and if they ran across this thread talking about "how easy it is" then you'd have some n0b taking apart a perfectly fine engine..then turning a running car into a basket case...based on what they "heard" on this message board.
Also the broken valve spring that could be fixed in an "afternoon" might turn into a engine rebuild based on comments made here.
I'd rather have noobie users get the enjoyment out of their car, rather than beginning a rebuild and not being able to finish it.
by no means did I mean to imply these motors were "too hard" to rebuild.
But I danged sure didn't want some "mustang kid" that had put a short block into a 5.0 mustang THINK this engine could be rebuilt with that same "knowledge level".
I couldn't agree with you more..for damned sure.
One could easily "lose their azz" trying to pay some shade tree mechanic to troubleshoot a car they "know less" than the collective knowledge found here on LVC.
It amazes me at some of the dumb :q:q:q:q mechanics tell some people you see posting here.
most people here on LVC are far more familiar with these cars that 99% of the mechanic shops out there...
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
If you have $5000+ to get it rebuilt you can absolutely have it done properly... do you know how many people on this board have $5k to drop on their cars?
Goddard-MarkVIII
Well-Known LVC Member
The hardest part is having the tools and space to do it. Give me that and I will rebuild it any day, but I'm a broke college kid living in a apartment. I just want to know the cheapest way. Being able to know how the engine looks on the inside and having confidence that its running smoothly would give me comfort.
This board is the :q:q:q:q by the way...I second that.
This board is the :q:q:q:q by the way...I second that.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
If you are a poor college student go buy a junkyard motor... and drop the kframe and swap motors. What is wrong with your motor anyways?
Goddard-MarkVIII
Well-Known LVC Member
sounds horrible.
YouTube - My Mark Tapping/Clicking/Knocking
YouTube - My Mark Tapping/Clicking/Knocking
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
Have you isolated a general area where the sound is coming from?
Do you have basic hand tools?
Do you have basic hand tools?
Goddard-MarkVIII
Well-Known LVC Member
ya I have tools.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
Go get an automotive stethascope and see if you can narrow down the sound... lscmkviii had a problem where his car was making the same kind of noises and it was a poorly torqued down harmonic balancer.
By all means... if you can actually BUILD a push-rod engine, you should be capable of BUILDING an OHC engine. Of course, this is assuming we're actually talking about BUILDING one... not doing a short block swap.
I'm starting to get the impression that a few of you know of people who basically just open a box of parts and throw together an engine like it's a puzzle... These pieces fit here, those fit there... tighten it down, drop it in. I've only once in my life met someone like that.
Since the assembling mechanic is responsible for ensuring all clearances are correct, anyone actually building an engine should have access to micrometers up to 3", dial caliper and at the very least, inside diameter tools (or a bore-gauge). So, my point was simply... if you're capable of putting all of this to use and correctly building an engine, you're capable of doing it to any common production engine given the right instruction.
To the OP:
Try to figure out where the noise is coming from first, just as "kid" said... it could be something that's virtually free to fix. Which is much cheaper than a salvage engine.
I'm starting to get the impression that a few of you know of people who basically just open a box of parts and throw together an engine like it's a puzzle... These pieces fit here, those fit there... tighten it down, drop it in. I've only once in my life met someone like that.
Since the assembling mechanic is responsible for ensuring all clearances are correct, anyone actually building an engine should have access to micrometers up to 3", dial caliper and at the very least, inside diameter tools (or a bore-gauge). So, my point was simply... if you're capable of putting all of this to use and correctly building an engine, you're capable of doing it to any common production engine given the right instruction.
To the OP:
Try to figure out where the noise is coming from first, just as "kid" said... it could be something that's virtually free to fix. Which is much cheaper than a salvage engine.