Greetings everyone

[Mojorisen]

I am an older ford dealership tech and I have unloaded many Gen 1 LS's and put them through their first drive That of course led Me to want one at the time but it wasn't in the cards yet. I just picked up a 2005 Sport about a month ago and have enjoyed it to a point. I should have searched a bit harder but pulled the trigger on this one the night I seen it, something about the car just screamed take Me home, so I did.. LoL.

I have some of the common issues present and have changed the cop's and plugs so far. Then of course there is the power locks (or lack there of atm), 2 windows I hear getting ready to have issues, brakes I wouldn't trust to stop a go kart, take off torque that a moped could beat, the ever so sweet smell of antifreeze after a drive ( temps are staying 205-217 @ highway speeds), and lastly the "lifter tap" sound that only happens when I am showing the car to friends.

I stopped turning wrenches for a living in 2002 due to physical problems that make it tough to go 8-10 hours a day steady anymore so I missed the Gen 2 and its quirks/changes as they come out.


Now for some questions that I know have been covered as I have read them already ( 3+ weeks of reading this site, I am on page 96 so far ) but I would like joe and anyone else who has an opinion to answer, so please don't hit me with the post to " search the site " as I already have and its been covered.


1. I can feel a misfire still when cold at idle that goes away by the first stop light I hit. I did use the Chinese "cheap" coils as a stop gap measure while I decide which option ( accel etc) I want to use on a more perm basis. Over the course of 2 days I unplugged each coil 1 by 1 while it was running cold and all 8 seemed to make a difference when unplugged (could be a marginal cop I guess even new)
but is there anything else on the Gen 2 I am overlooking that could do this?

2. While the LS has always had sub par braking compared to other vehicles this one feels quite odd ( cant get enough braking power to kick in ABS even on wet roads with both feet planted into the pedal deeply). The brakes and rotors was replaced 2 months before I bought it, still has the original rubber lines which will be upgraded soon but I feel like the stopping power is degraded beyond what bad lines alone would do to it. That said I am thinking master cylinder weak/worn in conjunction with soft lines. Sound plausible or will the lines on this beast really kill the braking that much? ( never driven an LS with verified bad lines so I have no reference and others I have driven with bad lines would still stop much better than this one does).

3. All the Gen 1 LS's I have driven (quite a few) had a throttle cable and felt pretty much the same on power, this Gen 2 with throttle by wire has Me feeling like there is an issue somewhere but I am not in the mood to go exploring yet and haven't picked up any pipe cleaners to do the MAF yet although the live data while driving shows a vibrant MAF under the hood. I have an absolute throttle of 17% with key on engine off and 12% while idling, at WOT I am seeing 76% and this generic code reader I have isn't giving me APP and TPS just absolute throttle %. In operation I take off normal with about 1.5 inches of throttle and then have to back off to about .5 inch for a 30-40 mph cruise. ( that's a "grandpa" takeoff) if I give it 1/4 throttle or more it feels like a Gen 1 did normally. Does this seem proper for throttle by wire ? Do I just need a tune to make the throttle a bit more sensitive?

And Last but not least, I am seeing 900-975 F at idle and 1200-1350 F at 85 MPH on the Cats evenly, it doesn't feel like the cats are clogged but I haven't been in the game long enough now that I want to double check My temps with what is normal for these cars.

Here are some pics of the car. is this a new LS to the board or have I bought another member's car? if anyone recognizes it please chime up


http://s24.photobucket.com/user/Mojorisen71/library/

Thanks in advance for the replies,
Mojo

 

[stugots]

1. You should really invest in proper oem coils, and plugs. At the same time. You're only really shortening the life of your cats, risking pcm damage, and you'll probably spend just as much $ constantly replacing cheap coils than just getting oem. You can't really diagnose by unplugging them since the coils never seem to fail completely, they just get marginal like you said. I would clean the maf and make sure you use 91+ octane.

2.What pads and rotors were used, brake fluid fresh? Bled correctly?

3. I would clean the tb and maf. Etc does feel weird.

4. Wouldn't be surprised if the cats are not as efficient if it was driven on a misfire for a while. I'm not sure what temps are normal.

 

[1LoudLS]

as far as braking, while the ls doesn't feel like one of the strongest braking cars around, it definitely performs better than most cars I've driven (outside of performance versions like SVT, AMG, SRT...)

with good quality pads and rotors (even before I switched to braided lines) it would have no problem engaging the ABS if you stood on the pedal hard on dry pavement (both my 00 and my 03)

 

[Mojorisen]

1. You should really invest in proper oem coils, and plugs. At the same time. You're only really shortening the life of your cats, risking pcm damage, and you'll probably spend just as much $ constantly replacing cheap coils than just getting oem. You can't really diagnose by unplugging them since the coils never seem to fail completely, they just get marginal like you said. I would clean the maf and make sure you use 91+ octane.

2.What pads and rotors were used, brake fluid fresh? Bled correctly?

3. I would clean the tb and maf. Etc does feel weird.

4. Wouldn't be surprised if the cats are not as efficient if it was driven on a misfire for a while. I'm not sure what temps are normal.

1. I put these in since I felt a misfire the day I test drove it. Evan-Fischer EVA13872043456. ( I could have just pasted the wrong Part number as I was after the brand to link more than the actual coil). With ford not being able to keep coils from frying in these much longer than aftermarkets I wanted to research a little better before dropping cash on "good" coils. 2-3 weeks and I will change them again with a more permanent coil, just didn't want it misfiring these could be had quickly and the opinions on coils just within this site alone is quite varied so I am still pondering the short list of what others have done so far here.
Plugs was Iridium IX, but I had to rush them in as My father needed to get to the doctors office unexpected and this is My only vehicle, as such the gap was NOT checked, that's something that will be rectified this weekend as well. And I know its very quick to gap the plugs but I wasn't sure where the feeler gauge was sitting until I got back later and hunted them. ( he basicly caught me with all plugs and coils out of the engine so I had to just slam it back together.)

2. The previous owner did not have receipts but it was quite clear that they was fresh from the looks of them. they are ceramic pads and most likely autozone ( or similar) rotors which suck. I have attempted to re-bed them but I don't have enough braking power to heat them up and transfer material , I guess I could ride them on the highway a bit but that's not a good way to heat them up for pad transfer at all. a new set of rotors of quality is on the list but I want to get the plastic coolant parts etc out of the way first since they are at least new even if crappy. I can still see the "cross-hatching" in the rotors so they haven't been used much yet at all. I usually use Bendix rotors on my vehicles. Brake fluid looks like crapola and could be contaminated with moisture, hadn't thought about that yet, and will be flushing them this weekend if I can get the time.

3. ok, fair enough. either of those could contribute to the issue. will pick up some pipe cleaners tomorrow for the MAF.

4. Same here, I have no reference for the LS on temps although swapping the cats wouldn't hurt a bit, just getting my list prioritized.

Thank you for the reply it brought up a few things I hadn't thought about yet, I figure I am going to toss a few thousand at this car in the next year, but I want to prioritize things so I have a plan of attack.

 

[Mojorisen]

as far as braking, while the ls doesn't feel like one of the strongest braking cars around, it definitely performs better than most cars I've driven (outside of performance versions like SVT, AMG, SRT...)

with good quality pads and rotors (even before I switched to braided lines) it would have no problem engaging the ABS if you stood on the pedal hard on dry pavement (both my 00 and my 03)

Aye, all the LS's I drove new as they came off the truck had weak brakes compared to the mustangs for instance but didn't have a problem with ABS engagement if pressed hard. This is one of the only cars I have driven that wouldn't engage ABS or lock up when on wet pavement. ( speaking across the board on many different makes/models ).

Flush will be first I guess and then go from there as contaminated fluid isn't going to give the hydraulic action needed to stop properly. Side note, it has wonderful pedal height and feel, just feels like I am using a vise to stop an oiled stone.

Thank you for the reply, it confirms to me that SS lines aren't going to be my answer at this point.

 

[1LoudLS]

Aye, all the LS's I drove new as they came off the truck had weak brakes compared to the mustangs for instance but didn't have a problem with ABS engagement if pressed hard.

if it can really engages the ABS, then the brakes are great. what I meant is that the feel to the brake is poor, the pedal always just feels like you have to press too hard for how much it stops, but this is really a ford themed thing i've seen, the feel to the brakes is just not where see with a lot of other manufacturers. like between the new pony and camaro, they have very similar results, but they feel night and day different. the camaro feels like its braking so hard its gonna rip the seat bolts out but the pony feel like you're standing so hard on the pedal that you think your fred flintstone stopping the car...

regardless, your problem is not feel but something else serious!

 

[Mojorisen]

if it can really engages the ABS, then the brakes are great. what I meant is that the feel to the brake is poor, the pedal always just feels like you have to press too hard for how much it stops, but this is really a ford themed thing i've seen, the feel to the brakes is just not where see with a lot of other manufacturers. like between the new pony and camaro, they have very similar results, but they feel night and day different. the camaro feels like its braking so hard its gonna rip the seat bolts out but the pony feel like you're standing so hard on the pedal that you think your fred flintstone stopping the car...

regardless, your problem is not feel but something else serious!

Chuckles, it does make Me miss the older vette I had which would stop like no other and I was tempted to buy one this time but at 43 with a bad back it would have been a bad idea.. the LS gives Me some kick with a good deal of comfort which is what I wanted, and once I get through these initial issues she should be up to par for a bit.

Did narrow down the coolant leak at least tonight while i was bored and having a smoke, will have to get a few pieces out of the way to be sure but coolant is on the DCCV and not above or to the sides of it, so most likely it is leaking and the dual zones aren't working properly either.
hoping to replace it next week and possibly go leak free for a month or so while i get all the plastic parts picked up for a complete change on them. Just frustrating I cant do it all at once but I know better than to have a cooling system like this leaking for very long.

 

[Telco]

I would forget the pipe cleaners for the MAF. Just use the spray. It does the job well.

When you change the fluid, go for DOT4 even though it probably calls for DOT3. It has a higher boiling point, so will take hard braking better. I've been swapping DOT3 for DOT4 for years, no problems. Stainless brake lines are also a good idea.

Look on this board for the Mustang coil conversion. It's been done, just requires a bit of rewiring to make them work properly.

I don't mind telling you that the LS is a pretty weak car if power is what you're after. It's just not ever going to be a powerful car. However, it's no slouch and it does sound like you aren't running with the whole herd of horses. I would have to wonder if the cats aren't already plugged on the car since you bought it with bad coils. There's no way to know how long it was run with bad coils, and it seems that the cats are really sensitive on this car and it doesn't take long at all to plug the cats up. After you do a proper coil and plug job I'd get them checked out immediately. A quick way to check the cats is with the hand test. Put your hand to the exhaust, and you should feel the individual exhaust pulses. If you aren't feeling them, like it feels like a steady stream instead of puff puff puff, then the cats are clogged.

Good luck, and welcome aboard.

 

[Mojorisen]

I would forget the pipe cleaners for the MAF. Just use the spray. It does the job well.

When you change the fluid, go for DOT4 even though it probably calls for DOT3. It has a higher boiling point, so will take hard braking better. I've been swapping DOT3 for DOT4 for years, no problems. Stainless brake lines are also a good idea.

Look on this board for the Mustang coil conversion. It's been done, just requires a bit of rewiring to make them work properly.

I don't mind telling you that the LS is a pretty weak car if power is what you're after. It's just not ever going to be a powerful car. However, it's no slouch and it does sound like you aren't running with the whole herd of horses. I would have to wonder if the cats aren't already plugged on the car since you bought it with bad coils. There's no way to know how long it was run with bad coils, and it seems that the cats are really sensitive on this car and it doesn't take long at all to plug the cats up. After you do a proper coil and plug job I'd get them checked out immediately. A quick way to check the cats is with the hand test. Put your hand to the exhaust, and you should feel the individual exhaust pulses. If you aren't feeling them, like it feels like a steady stream instead of puff puff puff, then the cats are clogged.

Good luck, and welcome aboard.

Thanks for the welcome

I will give it a try without the pipe cleaners as I cant figure out where I have sat them at. ( moved here last year to take care of 2 elderly family members so my stuff is all stacked about still) Not worried about power as I don't plan to race these days and it has a plenty for normal driving by far. (pulls 0-60 in 7.5 - 8 secs so that's not far off what it was new, just don't have the seat of the pants feel on takeoff that the GEN 1 had, going to just call that throttle by wire feel as once it hits 2500 RPM its perfect for what it is) still working on diagnosing the roughness when cold as it hasn't changed at all with the plugs and COP's being changed. Tried the hand test and I can feel the puffs just fine until it has been driven a few miles then its more of a smooth feel coming out, so I have been watching the cat temps as they will increase when its starting to clog and according to other sources the temps are fine, either way once I get the brakes and dccv etc out of my way it will be going in for a test/cat change if needed.

Was looking at the mustang coil writeup and a couple of the others just haven't decided which avenue I want to pursue yet. which was why I went with the cheapies which should have taken care of the issue for a short while. The last owners put just under 1100 miles on the car in the year they had it so I figure they priced out the problems and sold it. I am not so easy to chase off.. lol

Mojo

 

[Telco]

Good deal. From what I understand though, the Gen 2 should feel more powerful than the Gen 1 because it's essentially the same car weightwise but has a more powerful engine. I have a Gen 2 but have never driven a Gen 1 so I can't comment on that part.

The smooth flow to me indicates an exhaust restriction of some sort, and the cats on these cars seem to be sensitive to random misfires, so that is what I suspect. Might be whatever is plugging the system is allowing enough flow when cold, then when heat expands everything the restriction rears its head.

 

[cammerfe]

First, WELCOME!

After my first trip to Maxton/ECTA and trying to stop at the first turn-out, I replaced the pads all around with a ceramic set I got at a local parts outlet. They had slightly less 'fade' than the factory layout and worked just fine when stopping from 140+. I don't think there has been any more stopping power, but the fade is less evident.

I've now put in a slotted cross-drilled set of rotors and a fresh set of ceramic pads. Since, if I go much faster (and I will), I'll have to use a 'chute I must admit that further brake improvements are fairly well down on the list of things to do.

KS