Hoping some one can guide me threw my problematic child here. I have a 2000 ls v8. Bidy has about 205k on it and the motor was rebuilt and i think sits around 185k right now. I have to issues that i have all but exhusted my efforts on and your input will be helpful im hoping. Starting with mda 5th cylinder misfire code, corrective solutions taken thus far are new cop, plug, and injector. Still failing. All thats left in my mind is a compression test but the car is on borrowed time and not worth the effort cause i wont fix it if it come back a bad cylinder. Ive cleaned the maf and egr, ran gumout complete fuel cleaner and i think thats it. Problems ive diagnosed are rough idle, shuddering in low gears and associated misfire sounds and shakes. Whats next? 2nd my battery light comes on speratically saying check.charging system. But its done this since ive owned the car and never has showed any harmful signs. Never dims, dies or starts hard so ive never investigated it. Please let me know what other information you may need. Im stumped. The car drives but its rough and id like to smooth it out. T
Hard idle, shudder and check charging system error help.
- Thread starter kiddenvy
- Start date
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
But it would be worthwhile to do a compression check before spending the money on a new set of coils. If the cylinders check out (all need to be within 5 percent of each other) then slap in a new set of plugs and coils. ALL of them. Also ensure all fuel injectors are plugged in as they can be knocked loose when working on the coils. Don't ask me how.
You might pull the alternator and have it tested. If it fails the test, replace both it and the battery with Motorcraft parts. Don't replace the alternator without replacing the battery, because it does not take long at all for a bad alternator to kill a battery and a bad battery will destroy the alternator's diodes trying to charge it.
Good luck, and may the Schwartz be with youoeeeoooooeeeeeyyyyooouuuuooohhhhhehhh....
Might add, she looks just like my first fiancée...
and I could tear that up for YEARS... unfortunately, when I joined the Army she decided that she didn't need me specifically, any man would do... well, when I say any man I mean EVERY man... But at least she made that decision before we got married...
You might pull the alternator and have it tested. If it fails the test, replace both it and the battery with Motorcraft parts. Don't replace the alternator without replacing the battery, because it does not take long at all for a bad alternator to kill a battery and a bad battery will destroy the alternator's diodes trying to charge it.
Good luck, and may the Schwartz be with youoeeeoooooeeeeeyyyyooouuuuooohhhhhehhh....
Might add, she looks just like my first fiancée...
and I could tear that up for YEARS... unfortunately, when I joined the Army she decided that she didn't need me specifically, any man would do... well, when I say any man I mean EVERY man... But at least she made that decision before we got married...
All cops and plugs were replaced going into the resolution of this issue since thats always the likely culprit. Fuel rail was pulled to ientify and faulty injectors and they all came up functional and clean. Putting everything back together we triple checked all connections. Now what?
As far as the check charging system light goes. A new battery was installed as the first porential fix and issue remained the same. I dont see why it would be the altenator since the car drives with charging issues. I can drive the car for days and never have a battery issue which tells me the altenator is still functioning properly.
As far as the check charging system light goes. A new battery was installed as the first porential fix and issue remained the same. I dont see why it would be the altenator since the car drives with charging issues. I can drive the car for days and never have a battery issue which tells me the altenator is still functioning properly.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
The check charging message is telling you that the alternator is working harder than it should have to for the conditions present. This could mean that the alternator is wearing out and will fail before long. Alternately, if you have a non-OEM alternator, then that is your problem and it should be replaced by OEM.
It's possible that the wiring to the PCM, or the PCM itself has a problem that is causing the misfire. It's also remotely possible that electrical noise from the bad alternator is causing some of the PCM related issues. Certainly, I would do a compression test to rule out the possibility that the engine slipped time in the past and damaged a valve. (If the car has been this way the whole time that you have had it, it's possible that someone repaired the timing issue and not the damage it could have caused.) I'd do the compression test before I wasted time and money on throwing other parts at it.
It's possible that the wiring to the PCM, or the PCM itself has a problem that is causing the misfire. It's also remotely possible that electrical noise from the bad alternator is causing some of the PCM related issues. Certainly, I would do a compression test to rule out the possibility that the engine slipped time in the past and damaged a valve. (If the car has been this way the whole time that you have had it, it's possible that someone repaired the timing issue and not the damage it could have caused.) I'd do the compression test before I wasted time and money on throwing other parts at it.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
all the correct information would be helpful the first time... this makes it sound like you only replaced one coil and plug
"check charging system" the alternator IS the charging system, so replacing the battery wouldn't really help that with the one exception that the weak battery was overworking the alt, but this would have to be caught very early as a failing battery will kill a good alt pretty quickly
also the alt can provide the car with a lot more power than it actually needs to run, so just because the car drives, this doesn't mean that the alt is in great condition, it just means that the alt has not completely fail yet.
I understand, it was 1 am and i was done beating my head reading threw forums so i tried to be detailed as possible. That said correcting me does not correct the problem and thats what im searching for.
As far as the check charging system issue. This has been ongoing for ehh 5-6 years. Are we saying the altenator can cling on by a thread for that long before taking a crap. I just think that its gone on so long that what ever the cause should have showed its face by now. Like i said, there is no visable issues only the chime and notice on the instrument cluster.
As far as the check charging system issue. This has been ongoing for ehh 5-6 years. Are we saying the altenator can cling on by a thread for that long before taking a crap. I just think that its gone on so long that what ever the cause should have showed its face by now. Like i said, there is no visable issues only the chime and notice on the instrument cluster.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
You never can tell with electrical items what will cause them to eventually fail or how long they can operate in a failed condition. For example I've had light bulbs blow out within 15 minutes of installing them, yet there is a light bulb at a fire station in Chicago that has been working continuously for 113 years and counting now. The Gen 1 alternators are PCM controlled though, so if there is a fault in the PCM it may not be running the alternator correctly. It may be worthwhile to have the dealer do a diagnostic on the car for you, if you've been at it 5 years with no resolution. A diagnostic is typically an hour's shop time and they will tell you what is wrong and give you a quote for repairs. You don't have to let them do the repairs though.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
well depending on how often it is coming on and how long it is staying on, it could be working good enough most of the time and just struggling a little some of the time. then again, it could be something else completely.
It comes and goes quite often. In a 10 minute drive it could turn on and off 10 times, stay on the whole time or not turn on at all. If my memory serves me correct its worse in the summer and not to bad in the winter.
It really does sound like your alternator only has a marginal problem, and running your A/C makes it more noticeable since it draws more current. My alt did this for about 4 months without causing any performance problem, and it went away when I replaced the alt.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm not sure that theory is valid. If he uses the seat heaters, then those take way more power than the AC.
Alternators work better cold than hot. Some cars even have liquid cooling of the alternator. Normally, I would say that his brushes are failing, given the symptoms. However, I can't imagine it being years between the first symptoms and complete failure.
Does the light come on more at high RPM or low RPM?
I dont use ac or have seat heaters. I will check rpms as i drive. Id venture to say that it does not matter level of rpms. I can put the cruise on 80 with no flux in rpms and it will come on and off over and over again.
Joe means does the light come on with higher or lower RPM, i.e. high RPM no light, low RPM light; not if the RPM fluctuates.
Correct, it does not differ between high or low. Since last post ive driven it 3 times. First time kicked on at 1500 for the whole drive, 20 minutes. Second time never turned on, 3rd time as soon as i started the car
Jack Flash
Active LVC Member
Blueberryyum02
Well-Known LVC Member
The alternatir issue could be as simple as a loose connector.
Jack Flash
Active LVC Member
I hate beginning new threads, so, I prefer jacking them instead.
Since the title of this one fits my situation, here I go.
I have begun experiencing some very light rough idle occasionally.
I drive the car every day, and, maybe once or twice a week, I’ll be waiting
on a red light, and I’ll feel the engine shake for a second or two, but very,
very subtle without affecting RPMs.
Now, from reading my eyeballs out on this site, I believe I’m looking at early signs
of coil failure. I will take the time to check all other potential elements which
may lead to rough idling (air leak, MAF, etc.)
Basically, like a 4 year old, I’m just looking for assurance to see if I’m barking
up the wrong tree or not, since I’ve become paranoid from reading all the
threads LOL. Also, if I’ve overlooked something, please chime in. Thanks !
Since the title of this one fits my situation, here I go.
I have begun experiencing some very light rough idle occasionally.
I drive the car every day, and, maybe once or twice a week, I’ll be waiting
on a red light, and I’ll feel the engine shake for a second or two, but very,
very subtle without affecting RPMs.
Now, from reading my eyeballs out on this site, I believe I’m looking at early signs
of coil failure. I will take the time to check all other potential elements which
may lead to rough idling (air leak, MAF, etc.)
Basically, like a 4 year old, I’m just looking for assurance to see if I’m barking
up the wrong tree or not, since I’ve become paranoid from reading all the
threads LOL. Also, if I’ve overlooked something, please chime in. Thanks !
Mileage? When was the last time the coils and plugs were changed? What brand?
Jack Flash
Active LVC Member
Sorry Joe, very important détails indeed. '00 V8. Car has 87000km (54000mi)
and I suspect they have never been replaced because of low milage. I purchased
the car with 77000km on the dial.
I checked with Lincoln dealer a few weeks back to get the history of the car. This car
previously belonged to a much older gentleman back in 2000. He brought it in the deal
in 2005 the last time, and it had 20000km on the dial. So, it hasn't been run much, and,
most probably alot of city driving I'm sure.
and I suspect they have never been replaced because of low milage. I purchased
the car with 77000km on the dial.
I checked with Lincoln dealer a few weeks back to get the history of the car. This car
previously belonged to a much older gentleman back in 2000. He brought it in the deal
in 2005 the last time, and it had 20000km on the dial. So, it hasn't been run much, and,
most probably alot of city driving I'm sure.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Well, I think that there is enough doubt about the coils that you should replace them (use OEM parts) and the spark plugs (set gap to 1.0mm). If you find any oil pooled in the plug wells, then you will need to replace the valve cover gaskets first.
It's certainly possible that changing out the coils and plugs won't resolve your stated problem. You may find that you also need a new IAC and/or some PCV plumbing. There are other possibilities as well. Still, starting with the COPs (coils) and plugs is the best idea.
It's certainly possible that changing out the coils and plugs won't resolve your stated problem. You may find that you also need a new IAC and/or some PCV plumbing. There are other possibilities as well. Still, starting with the COPs (coils) and plugs is the best idea.