Hawaii challenged as to natural born status

MonsterMark

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No effort to conceal, all the required proof was presented and certified long ago.

And who certified this proof? Fact-Check? Fight the Smears?

Fact-Check on the other hand has thrown Obama under the bus. The truth is there for all to see.

Even FTS had this up once upon a time....
http://www.fightthesmears.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/articles/5/birthcertificate


It is for the court to decide on the issue of Natural Born Citizen. As the current law stands, read the Supreme Court's 'Minor' case. You might learn something.

You are as typical as the media. Paint this issue as a Birth Certificate issue. Argue that he was born in Hawaii. Who gives a rat's ass? Obama was born to a foreign parent. Obama's dad was a British citizen. Obama's mom was not old enough to convey citizenship on her son. It was Obama's father who controlled that. Obama was born a British subject. End of Story. Not eligible to be President. Get out your crying towel JohnnyBz00LS.

The 12th and 25th amendments have a way to deal with this issue.

The 12th:
And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

The 25th:
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.


It is my belief that 3 things are potentially at play here.
1) Obama's dad is Sr. and therefore Obama is ineligible.
2) Obama's dad is someone else and that truth is too painful to reveal even if it proves he is a natural born citizen.
3) Obama was born elsewhere and registered in Hawaii.
 
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Lead Birther Bill Sponsor Votes To Recognize Hawaii As Obama's Birthplace
By Eric Kleefeld - July 27, 2009, 9:00PM

Hey JohnnyBz00LS... Let me know when they pass a non-binding resolution naming the actual location of his birth and make it a national monument. :rolleyes:

I'll give you the airfare to make the pilgrimage (one-way of course).:leghumper

Can't wait to see where they place the plaque.
 
Hummm... All I wrote is the title: Obama accused of treason.

Interesting you could read so much into that 4 word title.

Here's the bottom line Bob.

I don't hate Obama. I think he is naive. I think he is grossly under-qualified. I think his past is troublesome. I think his solutions for this country are disastrous. But I don't hate the guy.

I just want the truth to come out.

Here is a guy who was elected that NOBODY knows anything about.

We really don't know who his daddy is if you are truthful to yourself. Obama does not appear to be from the Luo tribe in Kenya.

We have no college records. No State Senate records. One writing and his two autobiographies that he didn't write.

He can't talk unless there is a teleprompter directing his every word.

He is anti-capitalist.
He is a race-baiter as demonstrated recently and goes back over 20 years with his decision to attend that racist church.

He has hung out with communists most of his life.
He was a practicing muslim in his very formative early years.
He went to Pakistan at a time when he had no good reason for going there.

The passport records were broken into to hide his trail. The kid that was going to testify about the break-in was killed.

Obama wants to socialize our medicine.
Obama wants to redistribute our wealth.
Obama wants to create a permanent under-class that will create a socialized America thru the voting booths. He has arranged billions for Acorn to continue their fraudulent registrations.

Where do you want me to finish? I could go on for pages more.

The media laps up this guy's spunk and nobody questions anything he has done or wants to do.

Hate the guy? No. Want to see his presidency stopped on a technicality? Yes.

Want to eventually repeal everything he has already done? Absolutely.

Calling me crazy is wonderful.

If stopping a race-baiting communist from destroying our safety, liberty and financial well-being makes me crazy, I'm proud to say I'm crazy.

But my attempts to smoke this guy out into the open does not mean I hate him. Those that put him on a pedestal I do have contempt for, if only for how truly ignorant they really are.

Bob, you wanted to give the guy a chance when he won the election. That's fine. How are things going now and do you think things will get better as his presidency wears on?


The title you gave it was, and is not why I posted what I said above.
The title of the thread had nothing too do with it.
It was the babbaling of the attorney or the client.
Judging from what was written, it sounds like the words of a mad lunatic.
I was simply stating that a lot about you could be surmized by posting that kind of desperation by an obvious loon.
I totally agree with your truthful synopsis of the Prtesident.
I would like too see his proof of birth, just as many others do but, to date, that request is falling on deaf ears.
If it had been I, I would have also posted a disclaimer at the beginning of the thread stating I am only posting this because It could, or could not be relevant to the case involving Obama's legitamacy.
The way it stands now, it appears that you not only agree with that lunatic message, but condone it.
I don't think this falls under the catagory of sensure.
I am merely stating that the way you posted it without a disclaimer appears that you are in line with that lunacy.
Naturally, we are all entitled to our opinions, and the attorney/client , the subject of the thread has a right to their opinion.
It is the "out of control" message that is most prominent in that message you posted.
Obviously it came across as someone who does not have control of his, or her emotions.
Bob.
 
The way it stands now, it appears that you not only agree with that lunatic message, but condone it.

I am merely stating that the way you posted it without a disclaimer appears that you are in line with that lunacy.

Obviously it came across as someone who does not have control of his, or her emotions. Bob.

Let the record show that I do not condone the OP's thread.

By posting it I was attempting to show how crazy this is all becoming and Obama can put an end to all this needless speculation by simply showing us his birth certificate. He has shown repeatedly that the only way he is going to cough up the BC like a fur-ball is to have the American people scream at the top of their lungs.

Too bad, when McCain was challenged, within a day or two he opened up all his records including health, birth certificate, etc.

Obama is obviously not 'man enough'.

Are you aware of Obama's first ACT as President when he walked into the Oval Office?
 
So, send money - find out from MonsterMark where you need to send the check...

Send lots of money, spend lots of time... Use up resources like crazy!!!!

I am sure the 'expert' attorneys they have hired need at least a lot of money to go back to school to learn how to file a case... Since obviously they don't even have any paralegals on their staffs (oh, they probably don't have a staff, sorry...)

And then they need to find more gullible military guys

And then they need to find some operative who will sneak into the White House, grab a glass that Obama has used, smuggle it out, and take it to be tested for DNA. After that, grave robbers will need to be found to unearth Malcom X, Davis, and heck, while they are at it, Thurgood Marshall as well (just in case).

All this will take money - lots of it. So send lots....

So, make sure that check has at least 2 zeros before the decimal point...

;) ;) ;)
This message brought to you by the book "Truth Be Damned: As long as we get the leftist elected nothing else matters.":rolleyes:
 
Let the record show that I do not condone the OP's thread.

By posting it I was attempting to show how crazy this is all becoming and Obama can put an end to all this needless speculation by simply showing us his birth certificate. He has shown repeatedly that the only way he is going to cough up the BC like a fur-ball is to have the American people scream at the top of their lungs.

Too bad, when McCain was challenged, within a day or two he opened up all his records including health, birth certificate, etc.

Obama is obviously not 'man enough'.

Are you aware of Obama's first ACT as President when he walked into the Oval Office?


If I remember correctly, his first act was to freeze salaries for white house staff and change rules for lobbiest.
Bob.
 
This message brought to you by the book "Truth Be Damned: As long as we get the leftist elected nothing else matters.":rolleyes:

Nah - that message was brought to you by: If they send money to a group of conspiracy thinkers now they will have less money in 2010...

Plus, I would be fascinated with the whole DNA thing...
 
If I remember correctly, his first act was to freeze salaries for white house staff and change rules for lobbiest.
Bob.

The salary freeze for those making over $100,000/yr? You mean the freeze Obama bragged about after Bush raised the salaries the month prior. What a magnanimous act.


More important was his first Executive Order on his 1st day sealing his records.
Mister Transparency became opaque on the day he entered office.:shifty:
All Hail the King!
 
Nah - that message was brought to you by: If they send money to a group of conspiracy thinkers now they will have less money in 2010...

Plus, I would be fascinated with the whole DNA thing...
Thank you for proving my point.
 
Paint this issue as a Birth Certificate issue. Argue that he was born in Hawaii. Who gives a rat's ass?

By posting it I was attempting to show how crazy this is all becoming and Obama can put an end to all this needless speculation by simply showing us his birth certificate. He has shown repeatedly that the only way he is going to cough up the BC like a fur-ball is to have the American people scream at the top of their lungs.

Too bad, when McCain was challenged, within a day or two he opened up all his records including health, birth certificate, etc.

So, which is it? Is it a birth certificate issue, or isn't it? On the one hand, I see you asking who gives a rat's ass about the fact that he has a Hawaii birth certificate, and on the other I see you telling us that the solution is for Obama to show us his birth certificate.

Regarding the three things you mentioned might be at play here, I'm curious about number two. Who might it be that is too painful to reveal?
 
On the one hand, I see you asking who gives a rat's ass about the fact that he has a Hawaii birth certificate, and on the other I see you telling us that the solution is for Obama to show us his birth certificate.

Obama revealing his birth certificate will lead to the truth.
Without the certificate, he has already proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he falls short of the qualifications for the office.

Supreme Court needs to weigh in on the Natural Born Citizen issue and get this resolved.

Again, take my argument...

If Osama Bin Laden had knocked up an American girl and she had the baby on US soil, should that baby be eligible to be become President of the United States?

Simple question. Yes or No?

TYPE YES IF YOU AGREE.

TYPE NO IF YOU DISAGREE.
 
And who certified this proof? Fact-Check? Fight the Smears?

You forgot World Net Daily. :rolleyes:

NO, the STATE OF HAWAII. Multiple times! But then again you KNOW that yet refuse to face those facts. That makes you nothing more than a cry-baby Birther whiner. But please, go ahead and drag the rest of the GOP into your lunatic fringe, see if I care.

:bowrofl: :bowrofl:
 
Again, take my argument...

If Osama Bin Laden had knocked up an American girl and she had the baby on US soil, should that baby be eligible to be become President of the United States?

Simple question. Yes or No?

TYPE YES IF YOU AGREE.

TYPE NO IF YOU DISAGREE.

Your "argument" ignores the Constitution (big surprize coming from you). By LAW OBL's offspring born to an American woman on US soil would be eligible. As would John Wayne Gacy's, Theodore "Ted" Kaczynski's , Timothy McVeigh's, Eric Robert Rudolph's, Bruce Edwards Ivins's, James W. Von Brunn's............... So what is your point?
 
NO, the STATE OF HAWAII. Multiple times! But then again you KNOW that yet refuse to face those facts. That makes you nothing more than a cry-baby Birther whiner. But please, go ahead and drag the rest of the GOP into your lunatic fringe, see if I care.

All the State Of Hawaii has claimed is that they have a birth certificate on file. Considering the policy concerning the issuance of birth certificates at that time in Hawaii, that doesn't mean that Obama is a citizen.

It is really quite funny to watch you continually stick your foot in your mouth when you smugly comment authoritatively on something you clearly don't understand. Clearly, you are more interested in smearing then in actually understanding the issue and engaging in an honest, civil discussion. Does it somehow boost your ego to engage in personal attacks and condescend to others even when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about?

Your "argument" ignores the Constitution (big surprize coming from you). By LAW OBL's offspring born to an American woman on US soil would be eligible. As would John Wayne Gacy's, Theodore "Ted" Kaczynski's , Timothy McVeigh's, Eric Robert Rudolph's, Bruce Edwards Ivins's, James W. Von Brunn's............... So what is your point?

Not really. This has already been talked about ad nausseum on this forum. You would know better then to mischaracterize like this if you had actually read the relevant discussions on this forum instead of simply trolled and ignored any replies/counter information.

The issue here is what makes someone a NATURAL BORN citizen. It is arguable at best if, under the 14th Amendment, someone simply born on American soil is a U.S. citizen (anchor baby). And even then, that doesn't make that a NATURAL BORN citizen.

Then there is also the laws at the time concerning one American citizen parent and citizenship status and how those play into this.

But, actually taking the time to understand the nuances of this issue would take away from your single-minded effort to smear, wouldn't it. :rolleyes:
 
Your "argument" ignores the Constitution (big surprize coming from you). By LAW OBL's offspring born to an American woman on US soil would be eligible. As would John Wayne Gacy's, Theodore "Ted" Kaczynski's , Timothy McVeigh's, Eric Robert Rudolph's, Bruce Edwards Ivins's, James W. Von Brunn's............... So what is your point?
Both parents must be US citizens dipstick to be "natural born".
 
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shag or monster - got that concise definition in the Constitution for 'natural born citizen', or the most recent Supreme court ruling on the matter?
 
shag or monster - got that concise definition in the Constitution for 'natural born citizen', or the most recent Supreme court ruling on the matter?

If there was a "concise definition" then there would be no constitutional question necessitating the clarification of the SCOTUS. Most of the constitutional arguments concerning Obama's natural born status are due to the vagueness in the idea of what makes someone a natural born citizen and Obama's personal history on this falling into that "grey area". Basically what your question serves to do is rhetorically shift the burden of proof to justifying the standard.

Do you think that because the standard is a little vague in this area, it should be ignored?

Do you think that because it is vague one should be able to define the concept of "natural born citizen" as they see fit?

Again, yes or no questions that don't take paragraphs to answer; only to explain the answer or to dodge answering.
 
Do you think that because the standard is a little vague in this area, it should be ignored?

Nope
Do you think that because it is vague one should be able to define the concept of "natural born citizen" as they see fit?
Nope
Unless you are a supreme court justice.

So, what are your answers (yes or no shag) on these questions?

At some point the supreme court should take this on... mostly because of anchor babies. Until then, the current policy and decisions are that if you are born on US soil it equals natural citizen, parents don't come into the equation.

Since Obama was born on US soil to one US citizen it will need a supreme court ruling to overrule the current policy. And then, will the hundreds of thousands of citizens who have been born on US soil to illegal immigrant parents be grandfathered in as natural born citizens, or will they be in limbo, some sort of 'not quite citizen'.
 
If Osama Bin Laden had knocked up an American girl and she had the baby on US soil, should that baby be eligible to be become President of the United States?

Simple question. Yes or No?

TYPE YES IF YOU AGREE.

TYPE NO IF YOU DISAGREE.

Yes.

See, not that hard.

Now that others (excluding yourself) have made the true issue at hand to be clear, the question becomes whether or not a person born on US soil is in fact a citizen whether or not both parents were citizens. As Fox & shag are pointing out, this issue is not exeactly spelled out in the Constitution. In my opinion, born on US soil alone should be grounds for citizenship. But this is a decision for a Justice to make, and this is where I would agree with Foxpaws that this is a fair case that they should make a ruling on to clear up questions like this in the future.

In the meantime, just because yourself and a few other people hold the opinion that citizenship requires two citizen parents, does not mean he should be removed from office. Quite frankly, if the SCOTUS rules that two citizen parents are required and that Obama is not a citizen, then yes, he should be removed from office. But until that happens, he is the President. The State of Hawaii says so, Congress says so, the Republicans and Democrats both say so, and even Bill OReilly says so.
 
Since Obama was born on US soil to one US citizen

You people are quite the trip.

Stanley Ann Dunham wasn't able to transfer "natural born citizen" status to her baby, only "citizen" status which doesn't meet the threshold.

Read the Damn Constitution and understand what it says. PLEASE!



Obama states he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. If that is the case, he was then both an American citizen and a British citizen at birth because his father was a citizen of the British East African Protectorate of Zanzibar. Because Zanzibar had, in 1961, not yet declared its independence from Great Britain Obama was, like his father, a British citizen under Section 32(1) of the British Nationality Act of 1948. Both Obama, Sr. and Obama, Jr. then automatically became citizens of Kenya when the independent nation was formed (from what had been Zanzibar) in 1963. Obama’s British citizenship automatically expired when he turned age 21. As a person born with dual citizenship, Obama is arguably not a natural born citizen and is ineligible to serve as President. The framers of the U.S. Constitution intentionally excluded dual citizens from becoming President because of possible split loyalties.
 
In my opinion, born on US soil alone should be grounds for citizenship. But this is a decision for a Justice to make, and this is where I would agree with Foxpaws that this is a fair case that they should make a ruling on to clear up questions like this in the future.
What is your opinion based on though.

The State of Hawaii says so, Congress says so, the Republicans and Democrats both say so, and even Bill OReilly says so.
Well, if Bill O'Reilly says so....... :rolleyes:
 
By LAW OBL's offspring born to an American woman on US soil would be eligible.

No he/she wouldn't.

Hey bright guy, have you heard how Fukino was challenged to ascertain whether the State of Hawaii also had Obama's AMENDED birth certificate on record? Fukino's response? "We have no further comment".


So today Hawaii got this request. {Bolded emphasis mine}


Here's my full Uniform Information Practices Act of the State of Hawaii Information request, made this morning by me, a liberal/progressive/feminist & Hillary Clinton voter. I wanted to have this on record, here, too:

Under the Uniform Information Practices Act of the State of Hawaii, “...the people are vested with the ultimate decision-making power. Government agencies exist to aid the people in the formation and conduct of public policy. Opening up the government processes to public scrutiny and participation is the only viable and reasonable method of protecting the public’s interest. Therefore the legislature declares that it is the policy of this State that the formation and conduct of public policy—the discussions, deliberations, decisions, and action of government agencies—shall be conducted as openly as possible.”

Please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama’s SUPPLEMENTARY BIRTH CERTIFICATE on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

Also, please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has BARRY SOETORO’S VITAL RECORD(S) on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

Also, please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has BARRY DUNHAM’S VITAL RECORD(S) on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

Also, please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has BARACK SOETORO’S VITAL RECORD(S) on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

Also, please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has BARACK DUNHAM’S VITAL RECORD(S) on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

Also, please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has BARRY H. SOETORO’S VITAL RECORD(S) on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

Also, please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has BARRY H. DUNHAM’S VITAL RECORD(S) on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

Also, please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has BARACK H. SOETORO’S VITAL RECORD(S) on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

Also, please send me digital and written confirmation that the Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, has personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has BARACK H. DUNHAM’S VITAL RECORD(S) on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

If you have no confirmation on any or all of the above, please send me that, too.

Also, please send me an electronic written version of Hawaii Administrative Rules, Chapter 117 (Title 11) of the Vital Statistics, Registration & Records Office. If Chapter 117 is STILL under review, please send me an electronic written version of the old Public Health Regulations Chapters 8, 8A, and 8B of the Administrative Rules for the Vital Statistics, Registration & Records Office.

Also, please send me an electronic copy of the written criteria, that must be satisfied, by which the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health determines that a person, whose vital records she has statutory authority over, is a natural-born American citizen.

Also, please send me an electronic copy of any written communications between the Hawaii Department of Health and Barack Obama or anyone claiming to represent Barack Obama concerning Mr. Obama’s birth certificate, certificate of live birth, certification of live birth, and/or supplementary birth certificate or certification of live birth from Jan. 1, 2008 through July 29, 2009.

Please consider this request as a Hawaii UIPA (Uniform Information Practices Act) request under section 92F-12.
 
You people are quite the trip.

Stanley Ann Dunham wasn't able to transfer "natural born citizen" status to her baby, only "citizen" status which doesn't meet the threshold.

Read the Damn Constitution and understand what it says. PLEASE!

I have, and the constitution doesn't define natural born citizen as you are defining it Monster.

Perhaps you could copy and paste the section that you are referring to for all of us to check out...
 

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