Heater core replacement

[Lux]

It doesn't matter to me how someone replaces a heater core. If they know it can come out through the firewall but choose to remove their dashboard, they have their reasons.

Take it for what it's worth. Or don't. I'm moving onwards and upwards (more like backwards) to my left rear caliper. The O-ring behind the parking brake lever has been dripping for months. Already got the rebuild kit. Haven't dreamed up any shortcuts... yet.

Come on now, the heatercore doesnt come out through the firewall. You butchered it.

You treat your car like a farm vehicle...why bother rebuilding the caliper when you can just pinch the brake line off with vise grips. Man, oh man.

First you remove the heatercore by cutting a hole in the firewall...and then drive around with leaking brakes for months?

Thats scary.

 

[Elessee]

About halfway through this project, it looked like it was gonna work out, and that was a relief.

But right around that time, it did occur to me that hundreds if not thousands of people who already replaced cores the conventional way would realize they had wasted untold hours while suffering through that ordeal, and I would be the bearer of this bad news.

Should I post it anyway? Of course I should because that's the right thing to do, even if a few people took it out on me.

I really didn't mean to make anyone angry. I hope you feel better soon.

 

[hy35f2t]

Im not mad because you cut your firewall just makes my car that much better But honestly it took me 45mins to remove the dash and it was my first time doing it on the mark 7.Plus i plan on keeping this car till i die so im gonna take care of it.

 

[Elessee]

Im not mad because you cut your firewall just makes my car that much better ...

Your car no doubt was, is and always will be better than my old beater.. 261K mostly hard miles. But it is always garaged and that helps.

45 minutes.. hmm.. lemme guess. Jaws of Life?

I really do like this car, and will keep it until something I like better appears (i been looking for a long time) but I don't worship it.
Firewalls are not sacred. I would chop a hole in the floorboard or the roof, or the trunk in a heartbeat if there was a good enough reason.

 

[Lux]

Im not mad because you cut your firewall just makes my car that much better But honestly it took me 45mins to remove the dash and it was my first time doing it on the mark 7.Plus i plan on keeping this car till i die so im gonna take care of it.

Lol

+1

It really does take about an hour to pull the dash....

 

[Elessee]

Now we got an hour? Somebody explain why the shop estimates are about $800 to replace the heater core.

Oh! An hour just to pull the dash!. I can see that. Taking stuff off is usually pretty quick.

I got my core for $20 (was it $25? I forget. Nope.. here's the receipt.. $19.99) at O'Reilly's. There are no other parts needed. That leaves $780 in labor cost. Even at $78 per man hour (VERY high) plus some extra time in case there's a problem, it's considered a roughly 10 hour job... by experienced professionals.. with every tool in the book at hand.

 

[Lux]

Now we got an hour? Somebody explain why the shop estimates are about $800 to replace the heater core.

Oh! An hour just to pull the dash!. I can see that. Taking stuff off is usually pretty quick.

I got my core for $20 (was it $25? I forget. Nope.. here's the receipt.. $19.99) at O'Reilly's. There are no other parts needed. That leaves $780 in labor cost. Even at $78 per man hour (VERY high) plus some extra time in case there's a problem, it's considered a roughly 10 hour job... by experienced professionals.. with every tool in the book at hand.

Some shops around here charge $90+ /hr

Most shops also charge more for the part, i would never put anything less then a fomoco heatercore in for example. Thats about 50 bucks last time i bought one, figure the installer bangs you 50-100 for it.

Going by the book, the ac system gets "evacuated" into a machine which costs money, and then new freon back in, which is more money.

If you dont have a machine to evacuate the AC you have empty the freon into the atmosphere which is damaging to it (CFC's) and IIRC might even be "illegal"

The book i believe calls for 8 hours or so of work the proper way.

We all know that just because a book calls for something, doesnt mean thats what it is in the real world. Theres jobs out there that call for 10 hours and take 6, and theres jobs out there that call for 2 hours and take 4, and can go into much longer into days or weeks depending if something's brittle and breaks thats unavailable or discontinued and so forth.

I would think its safe to say that most normal DIY guys would spend an entire saturday doing this Dash job for their first time. A good 8 - 12+ hours is what i'd assume. DIY guys arent working like its a madhouse either, and work on cars at their leisure. Mechanics work on cars all day everyday, and they get very fast at it.

But yes, if you know what your doing you can have the dashboard out in an hour, Removing the heaterbox, or dremelling out the core from the inside takes some time after that, then you have the hoses, reassembly of whatever replaced, ac system if discharged, dashboard reassembly which can take a little longer then an hour cause your lining it up and its VERY HANDY TO HAVE AN EXTRA PERSON FOR PUTTING THE DASH BACK IN...sucks by yourself, then you have coolant level check, startup, and operation, etc. Which all takes time.

If you've taken the dash out before and your inclined/quick with tools you should be able to do the whole thing in 4-6 hours from start to finish add more time for evap swap/blower motor/ ac system changes, etc

So you figure a shop charging $80-90/hr and doing it the right way takes them 7-8 hours or so (add extra for other work) and on a job that big removing a 20+ yr old dashboard thats probably never been removed you add a little extra time anyway incase things go wrong.

So you can see how it easily can be a $800-1000 job quickly.

Or

You can spend a weekend, getting familiar with your car, take your time, do it the right way and spend $50

 

[xllsc007]

dealership over here is $120.00 hr and get 1200 for heater cores, yup

 

[Elessee]

Thanks for explaining all that.
While buying tuneup parts, I asked about a new core as an afterthought. She says "I have one in stock. $20." That seemed cheap but it also seemed like fate was telling me to grab it, so I did.

I feared this car might not survive a dash removal. It's old so surgery is a lot more risky. The shop recharged and leak tested my AC only two years ago.
Time was short to pass smog and get it registered. Plus, I have no backup wheels.
This was not the time or place for a procedure that I'd never done, or to take unnecessary risks with the car. But since the windows were fogging up, and it's winter time, something had to be done soon..
----------
So, many things came into play, and I have zero regrets. With the benefits of prior experience and hindsight, there is one thing I would do differently: Be prepared for the cover plate.

Carefully layout and cut the firewall hole, using a thin wheel. Then weld 3 or 4 small tabs on that plate for screw re-attachment. Finally run a bead of silicone around it before screwing it back into it's original position on the firewall.
Come to think of it, Lincoln could have done that for us (if they had thought of it).

I leave it to someone else to improve on cutting the plastic parts.. Without knowing what lay ahead, I was as careful as possible, but the result was a lot of rough edges.

 

[hy35f2t]

Your car no doubt was, is and always will be better than my old beater.. 261K mostly hard miles. But it is always garaged and that helps.

45 minutes.. hmm.. lemme guess. Jaws of Life?

I really do like this car, and will keep it until something I like better appears (i been looking for a long time) but I don't worship it.
Firewalls are not sacred. I would chop a hole in the floorboard or the roof, or the trunk in a heartbeat if there was a good enough reason.

You must not know your way around a car.Ive pulled dashes off so many cars once you do a few you start to get an idea onwhere the next bolt is.Ive noticed like said a few post above, there really is only a couple "anchor" bolts that everything else is bolted to.Then dumb trim/kick pannel covers.I guess it isnt fair also this was prolly my 15th-16th time pulling a dash from a car.Yeah 2 people installing the dash would make it easier but then again thats when you learn ways to get the job done by yourself.

And to the guy that cut his firewall up oh didnt know it was a beater with a heater type of care.

 

[Elessee]

Dash removal required. It seems like that's just the traditional way of building these things.

There's gotta be hundreds of brands and models of cars where the heater core could easily and cheaply be replaced through the firewall, but there is no factory provided access hole.

Do car manufacturers just want to make things difficult? Do they doubt their cars will last long enough to need a new heater core?

$1.200 to replace a $20 heater core reminds me of something.. what was it..
Oh yeah.. replacing a leaking main seal. Seal was $4 and labor was like $400.

 

[8494]

Heater core through firewall

Nice pics. I did the same thing on my 84 (easier, no FI). Sure beats tearing out the dash.

 

[Elessee]

Was the core positioned and angled the same as the '88? Someone with an '84 might be curious.

man.. i am so glad i didn't need to pull the dash. It's in perfect shape. Original owner bought custom dash (and rear deck) covers.. unless they were standard equipment... maybe an option.

 

[8494]

Was the core positioned and angled the same as the '88? Someone with an '84 might be curious.

man.. i am so glad i didn't need to pull the dash. It's in perfect shape. Original owner bought custom dash (and rear deck) covers.. unless they were standard equipment... maybe an option.

Yes the 84 was exactly the same but had throttle body injection which did not require removal to cut firewall. Anyone who removes dash to replace heater core rather than cutting firewall is insane. 3 hours to cut firewall & replace heater core OR 8-10 to remove dash. I like how one guy said he had dash out "in an hour" but didn't mention it took likely 3-4 hours +++ to re & re console, seats, drop steering...and another 2-4 hours to open heater box to replace heater core...give me a break. It's a car not a surgery on a human. Going to do it again on another soon...

 

[JPJP]

Nice pic's and posts Elessee! It has been a while since your work. Any problems since the core install?

 

[Elessee]

Nice pic's and posts Elessee! It has been a while since your work. Any problems since the core install?

hey there.. I was kinda surprised to see this thread surface again.
8494 waits 18 months to reply, but that's OK. I got plenty of time. If your '84 is the same I'd guess a lot of other years will be as well.

JPJP, no problems at all with it. Even that crappy red cover plate looks exactly the same as the day it was installed.

But speaking of climate control, I did recently have a new mechanic check out my AC, which was now failing to cool after ~3 years..

It has three minor hose leaks, all near their ends.
He changed me over from R12 to 134a in the process of refilling it and testing it. Evidently there is a new (?) R134a lubricant which is compatible with this R12 system and nothing special needed to be done... no parts needed to be changed. No system purge (afaik, because I didn't pay for it). He just added 134a-hose adapters to the low and high side, emptied and filled it. ($160 total)

New factory hoses are unavailable (?) so the 2 custom ones will be about $125 or so according to the hose people. But I gotta give them these originals to make copies, so I will wait 'till summer is over. I'll probably let this shop do it all for me.

Anyway, during the course of the conversation about the AC, I says to this mechanic "Have you ever heard of replacing the heater core through the firewall? I was anxious to brag about it but Yes, he had heard of it. This guy is pretty good and has probably seen everything.