Hello world and Timing Tensioner Issue Validation

[Rifken]

Hello all! First post here. Lurking this forum has lead me to picking up a 2000 LS V8 with 149K miles. I think I got a faily good deal, $3700. however, in retrospect it may not have been such a great deal.

First issue, rough idle and a knocking in the front of the driver side engine. After research sounds like a tensioner. The previous owner said he replaced the coils and plugs and the O2 sensor trying to fix the rough idle. I have torn the valve cover off and this is what I see:

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I have ordered a metal tensioner as a replacement. I have a couple of questions however, do I need a valve cover gasket set? I didn't see any oil in the plug cylinders. Would this issue cause the check engine light to come on?

Before I parked the car and tore the top off when driving around 50 MPH and I floor it so see what the car has, it would downshift and accelerate, but the check engine light would flash at that point. From what I have read this is a coil pack issue?

I replaced the fuel filter last weekend. It was the original filter as near as I could tell. Prior to changing the fuel filter every 10 to 15 cranks the care wouldn't start. It would crank but wouldn't start. If I waited a few seconds and tried again it would work fine. Since changing the filter it appears to have rectified the issue. Am I fooling myself here? Should I go ahead and replace the fuel pump or at least prepare myself for that?

I know eventually I will need to tear in to the transmission. It clunks in to reverse or drive if I don't give it a moment to build up pressure and kick in to gear. As near as I can tell the car has never had a transmission flush and is using the original gunky fluid.

I can also tell I will eventually need to replace the ball joints on the drivers side. I haven't looked at the passenger side.

The passenger door pocket had a little standing water in it. I think this is the sun roof drain rail issue?

Quite frankly the deal that I got on the car isn't looking like a deal so much anymore... Albiet, I am only around $600 or $800 in repairs if I continue to do them myself... Good thing I only drive about 5K miles a year! I can actually afford the time to fix the car. I can drive the wife's car if/when I need until I get this car on its feet.

The only mods I plan are a full detail including inside and out, engine compartment, everything. (not really a mod, but a significant time investment...) The car has horrible swirl marks all over it. It is pearl white. It has a few dents and dings, but I don't plan to fix them. It has a rock chips here an there. Nothing too bad.

After that I plan to upgrade the stereo to something with bluetooth and sat radio. I have a pioneer double din in mind. I will also add a component set up front with custom fiberglass kickpanels and some midbass drivers in the door running from a Massive Audio NX4 mounted in the trunk. Even though I don't drive a lot I do need bluetooth in my "mobile office" and I have the other gear (speakers and amps) so I figured I might as well tweak it out.

I want to clean the headlights and am on the fence about replacing them versus a kit to clean them. Any opinions? I have looked a the Pinnacle system at autogeeks.net. I plan to pick up the supplies to the detail the car from there anyway and since I am spending the money might as well pick up the headlight kit from Pinnacle.

Last I will probably tint the windows and be done with any mods.

I plan to keep the car about a year, maybe two, maybe longer if it suits me. My typical cycle is pick up a car at auction (my FiL is a car dealer) and drive it for a year. Since I put so few miles on a car this has worked in my favor typically. Last car was a 2004 BMW 325i with 116K miles on it when I sold it. I put about 5600 miles on it. Basically spent $600 to drive it a year. The reason I got rid of the car was two fold, smoking when it started and need extra room for a carseat for my son. The smoking could be fixed but the space couldn't. I have always like the LS and thought I might try that. I bought one in cash with the money from the BMW and set back around $1500 to $2000 for the headunit and repairs. Granted the headunit will take a back seat if it needs more repairs...

Edit:
Forgot to add:
I need to find a new rearview mirror, the current one looks like the auto dim is smeared over 3/4 of the surface. Can't really use the thing as is...
I need a driver sunvisor clip. Current one is broken.

 

[TooManyToys]

.... I have torn the valve cover off and this is what I see:

I have ordered a metal tensioner as a replacement. I have a couple of questions however, do I need a valve cover gasket set? I didn't see any oil in the plug cylinders. Would this issue cause the check engine light to come on? [/quote]

At your mileage, or really anytime the VCs come off the gaskets should be replaced. It looks like part of the plastic rubbing surface is missing from the tensioner. Know where that is?

If your lucky it's in the bottom of the small, removable oil pan and not sitting around in the front cover waiting to get between the primary chain and crank gear. Your earlier vehicle uses a roller chain on the primaries which is weaker and more prone to snap with such an issue then the endless chain used later in production. So I would advise pulling the front cover off, finding all the little parts and also replacing the plastic parts that make up the guides and primary tensioners.

Also looks like you've pulled the drivers VC, lifting up the oil dipstick tube. Even following the instructions to cut down the stud to minimize the lift over the stud over at the Jag forum for this motor I still got sand past the dipsticks O-Ring. You'll have to get that out too so you don't inject that into the oil pump later on.

Kind of makes the other problems insignificant until you get this done.

Why do all these motors have the funky orange stained oil?

 

[Rifken]

I haven't found the rubbing surface yet. I haven't had a chance to dig in... I also believe that is the knocking noise I hear, the chain running over the flat metal surface. I don't think the tensioner has given up the ghost, just the plastic part on top, so I don't think I have jumped time yet...

Guess I need to call the parts houses and see if they have a gasket in stock... if not I'll have to order one.

This weekend really made me miss turning wrenches. I worked at my father's shop from the time I was 15 until I was 21. I graduated college then and have had a desk job ever since. Haven't really turned a wrench on a vehicle since then...

 

[milehighmikey]

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your significant project!

 

[TooManyToys]

It's hard to tell from the picture if the cam flats are parallel, but that's the way to know if it's jumped. They don't have to be even with the cover sealing surface, just in time with each other. You should be able to get each VC gasket kit for about $43 each if you get a good discount at the Ford / Lincoln dealer.

 

[Rifken]

The engine isn't TDC so they won't be flat in that photo.

I can get list price at the dealership as my mother in law is the head of HR at the local Ford dealership.

But my experience with them and my wife's 07 Edge, I won't use them for anything but fluid changes. They still haven't found the vibration in her car at speed or acceleration. $1600 later and the issue is better, but it isn't gone... They like to play let's change this and see if it works... Not my cup of tea, hence the reason I do my own research and repairs, at least on my car. On hers I would rather someone else be held accountable, she drives a lot!

I may let them do the transmission solenoid as I will have to flush the system as well and my understanding is that the LS uses a lot of fluid. I want the system completely flushed so draning the pan, swapping the solenoid, changing the filter, and filling with fluid will only get about 80% of the fluild changed. If I am going to do it I would rather do it right and have the system flushed after the solenoid is changed... might as well let the dealer do it and get employee pricing. Still a ripoff but easier to swallow.

 

[HawleyTronics]

Your rough idle and "knocking" sound is probably due to the timing chain tensioner giving the chain some slack and the chain must have jumped a tooth or two. You should replace the secondary chain as well since it may be stretched and will only cause issues again.

I bough a tensioner (Jaguar one that is metal) and a chain with a master link on ebay for around $135 for both. And it isn't that difficult of a repair either. What is the hard repair is when you have to replace the Primary tensioners (lower) and that alone is about 14 hours of labor just to get to them because you have to remove the front engine cover among other things. (I paid a mechanic to do mine about 2 years ago for $1,800)

Now is it a "knocking" sound or more like a rattling sound like noisy lifters?

 

[Shredicus]

Why do all these motors have the funky orange stained oil?

There was a TSB from Ford back in 02 that adding Tang powder to your oil yielded beneficial improvements to the health of the oil due to the vitamin C content.

 

[Rifken]

Hard to recall the exact noise... It was more of a clack than a tick or a knock if I had to be exact.

That must be the issue Shredicus... My car has a cold from lack of vitamin C... I'll get right on that and let you know it turns out!

 

[Shredicus]

Hey no problemo; glad the car doctor could help!

Also for the little things on the interior you need to replace there are a couple part out threads in the for sale section of this forum. Mr. Howie might have what you need

 

[TooManyToys]

There was a TSB from Ford back in 02 that adding Tang powder to your oil yielded beneficial improvements to the health of the oil due to the vitamin C content.

Man, I never saw that TSB. Does it matter if you get the Motorcraft Tang or can you go to the local grocery store and get the consumer version? I notice the container you showed says it makes 9 quarts. Do you just add the amount of tang that is needed for the amount of oil or do you use the entire container?

I really need to get some color in my 100K motor ......

 

[Rifken]

Show-off!

 

[TooManyToys]

Yep. Mobil 1 on schedule since 5k miles.

 

[Shredicus]

Man, I never saw that TSB. Does it matter if you get the Motorcraft Tang or can you go to the local grocery store and get the consumer version? I notice the container you showed says it makes 9 quarts. Do you just add the amount of tang that is needed for the amount of oil or do you use the entire container?

I really need to get some color in my 100K motor ......

* snip*

Yikes man that's scary. Your motor could die ay any minute from mechanical scurvy. First thing that happens is the timing chain tensioner teeth start falling out...

There's been much debate about whether or not you can use any tang or stick to motorcraft tang. The purists naturally tend towards Motorcraft but I doubt there's a big difference. If you read the directions it tells yo to add one level scoop per quart of oil, RTFM jeeze!

 

[Rifken]

Don't forget... if you have aluminum heads you may also be iron deficient.

Grind up some pot metal in to fine dust and just dump that right in the oil filler hole...

Don't want that pretty, clean engine to suffer from lack of proper vitamin intake...!

 

[Shredicus]

Don't forget... if you have aluminum heads you may also be iron deficient.

Grind up some pot metal in to fine dust and just dump that right in the oil filler hole...

Don't want that pretty, clean engine to suffer from lack of proper vitamin intake...!

Precisely!

Glad to see this is gaining some traction. Whenever I go to the local mechanics and preach my engine health food seminars they get these weird looks going and tend to call the cops.

 

[Rifken]

Tip number 3:
If you car is running sluggish pour a cup of sugar in the gas tank. Sugar will energize/excite entire fuel system. (Untested but probably better, use 3 cans of red bull... it may not do away with the sluggish feeling, instead opting to not let your car stop.)

 

[Kumba]

I sometimes wonder what the condition of the engine is, but then I figure I will find out if it breaks. I did have the 60K-mi service done on my car and tried to get them to do a fuel induction cleaning since my maintenance warranty pays for it but their technician couldn't find any grime or build-up to warranty it. I was sad

So instead, they re-worded the service order to cover the fuel filter and tax and labor.

 

[joegr]

I sometimes wonder what the condition of the engine is, but then I figure I will find out if it breaks. I did have the 60K-mi service done on my car and tried to get them to do a fuel induction cleaning since my maintenance warranty pays for it but their technician couldn't find any grime or build-up to warranty it. I was sad

So instead, they re-worded the service order to cover the fuel filter and tax and labor.

You don't want that cleaning done unless it is really needed. (It rarely is.)
The chemicals are harsh and probably do slightly reduce engine life. If done wrong (happens every now and then), they can hydrolock the engine.

 

[Rifken]

Replaced the tensioner. Check engine light is out now and the car runs
Much better. Transmission issue is now very evident. Will probably let this ride for a bit as I don't drive a lot.

 

[hite337]

I may let them do the transmission solenoid as I will have to flush the system as well and my understanding is that the LS uses a lot of fluid. I want the system completely flushed so draning the pan, swapping the solenoid, changing the filter, and filling with fluid will only get about 80% of the fluild changed. If I am going to do it I would rather do it right and have the system flushed after the solenoid is changed... might as well let the dealer do it and get employee pricing. Still a ripoff but easier to swallow.

Glad to hear your tensioner issue has been fixed!

If you want to save some cash you can do what I did. I took my LSE to the dealer for the transmission flush and then brought it straight home and did the solenoid myself. I purchased a brand new large drain pan and just re-used the fluid I drained out. I didnt use any of the fluid left in the transmission pan or keep my drain pan under the transmission while I took the pan off so I didnt get any debris in the drain pan. I had to add about a quart of new Mercon V to fill it completely. This will save you a ton of labor charges, just a suggestion since the solenoid isn't that hard to change.