Help me and i'll buy a LS.. Cross my heart.

[Dank Bird]

I have a 2003 Thunderbird and I am getting codes P2107 and P2110 and the car is going into fail safe mode. only when in traffic or idling for extended periods of time car can be driven on highway for hours with no issue.

Just a little background I've replaced throttle body all coils and plugs and the engine is a new crate motor from ford with about 10k miles now the problem was happening before and after the engine "block" was replaced i don't believe it would be under warranty also there is smell of sulfur when getting onto freeway or driving aggressive.

Any help finding the problem would be much appreciated. I've had ford and tunex both look at it and they were convinced it was the throttle body before I replaced it I really would rather not give them any more money if I can help it.

Thanks for your time, and any ideas. oh btw regardless of the help im on the look out for a LS in the Salt Lake City area they are great looking cars that have 4 doors and ... i can swap and test parts in my driveway

The Bird & and the answer is no I can not fit a fatter tire back there.. I tried.. :headbang:

 

[joegr]

I have a 2003 Thunderbird and I am getting codes P2107 and P2110 and the car is going into fail safe mode. only when in traffic or idling for extended periods of time ...Just a little background I've replaced throttle body all coils and plugs and the engine is a new crate motor ... also there is smell of sulfur when getting onto freeway or driving aggressive...

Motorcraft coils or some "OE identical" brand?
Spark plugs replaced at the same time? Spark plug gaps set to exactly 1.0mm (each one verified)?
The two RFI suppression caps correctly installed at the intake manifold?
Is the engine ground strap good and is it correctly installed?

I'd bet on one or more bad coils. That sulfur smell is from the cats and is because of misfires. The same misfires are generating RFI and causing the false throttle body codes.
Example: http://www.dewitzdiagnosticsolution...s-3-9-3000-rpm-rev-limiter-mysterious-issues/

How was the original engine killed?

 

[02LincLS]

Those are all throttle body related codes. You could have damaged wiring or harness somewhere. What happened to the old engine?

Others have reported that the coils (coil on plug) can create interference that messes up the PCM, making fake codes (though the car still goes into fail safe to be safe). Are the coils and plugs Motorcraft brand? plugs gapped properly? Are the boots okay (dielectric grease on the outside)? Do you get any misfires at certain engine speeds? They have to be severe before you get a code for them.

Sulfur smell might mean the car is running lean at WOT. Make sure your fuel filter is clear, the fuel pump is working well, and that you don't have clogged/bad injectors. Maybe unmetered air is getting into the intake?

How wide is the tire back there? Does it rub? I fit 285's in my LS which is lowered- no rubbing.

 

[Dank Bird]

Motorcraft coils or some "OE identical" brand?
Spark plugs replaced at the same time? Spark plug gaps set to exactly 1.0mm (each one verified)?
The two RFI suppression caps correctly installed at the intake manifold?
Is the engine ground strap good and is it correctly installed?

I'd bet on one or more bad coils. That sulfur smell is from the cats and is because of misfires. The same misfires are generating RFI and causing the false throttle body codes.
Example: http://www.dewitzdiagnosticsolution...s-3-9-3000-rpm-rev-limiter-mysterious-issues/

How was the original engine killed?

I got Borg warner ones from O'Reilly's because they have a life time warranty.. good thing too I've taken them all back twice trying to find the problem I did all 8 plugs and all the left side 1-4 coils last weekend because it looks like some water got in there it was not resealed right after they did the motor. lol fml...

Ill have to google what a RFI Suppression cap is how can I tell if it is correctly installed? Could it be my EGR?

Where is the ground strap located?

It was killed at 2am by a ladder in the fast lane on i-15 Luckily the ladders owners insurance paid the 9k for engine.

 

[Dank Bird]

Those are all throttle body related codes. You could have damaged wiring or harness somewhere. What happened to the old engine?

Others have reported that the coils (coil on plug) can create interference that messes up the PCM, making fake codes (though the car still goes into fail safe to be safe). Are the coils and plugs Motorcraft brand? plugs gapped properly? Are the boots okay (dielectric grease on the outside)? Do you get any misfires at certain engine speeds? They have to be severe before you get a code for them.

I don't know how to tell if it misfired , They are not motorcraft they are NGK's came pre gapped but now im thinking i need to pull them out and check.. dude 285 that freaking huge mine are 255 and yes they rub over a big bump on stock suspension

 

[joegr]

I don't think the lifetime warranty is saving you anything. Replace them with Motorcraft, or keep wasting your time and money on the ETB codes. Also, you'll kill your PCM over time, if it isn't already damaged.
You can't (successfully) seal the water out at the engine. You have to stop it at the source, rotted seals around the wiper shafts on the wiper cowl. The replacement seal kit is all of $5.00
The caps are bolted to the intake manifold on each side, about mid way down.
The main ground strap is down by the starter. The secondary (the one that might be related to your problem) is at the back left (your right) of the intake manifold.

 

[joegr]

I don't know how to tell if it misfired , They are not motorcraft they are NGK's came pre gapped but now im thinking i need to pull them out and check.. dude 285 that freaking huge mine are 255 and yes they rub over a big bump on stock suspension

I use NGKs too. They were factory installed on my 06. Every set that I have bought had at least two with the wrong gap.

 

[Dank Bird]

I don't think the lifetime warranty is saving you anything. Replace them with Motorcraft, or keep wasting your time and money on the ETB codes. Also, you'll kill your PCM over time, if it isn't already damaged.
You can't (successfully) seal the water out at the engine. You have to stop it at the source, rotted seals around the wiper shafts on the wiper cowl. The replacement seal kit is all of $5.00
The caps are bolted to the intake manifold on each side, about mid way down.
The main ground strap is down by the starter. The secondary (the one that might be related to your problem) is at the back left (your right) of the intake manifold.

OMG the seal i bet that is what it is!! i just realized after i did all left side coils last week it ran perfect until yesterday after I WASHED THE CAR! i bet water got back down in there and thats the problem! I wash the car alot.. heres what the coils i pulled out looked like it looked like the dealer put little to no grease on the coils either i put it on sparingly but only on the inside is it supposed to be on the outside as well?

 

[Dank Bird]

do have a picture of where the seal is?

 

[Dank Bird]

can i run some water on the windshield to check if its leaking? they told me all the recalls had been done on mine.

 

[joegr]

5W4Z-54021A46-A is the part number for the seal kit.
Putting grease on the outside of the boot is unlikely to help since the boot does not seal to the sides of the plug wells. Pulling the boot off and putting a little around the inside of the top of the boot to seal it to the coil may help.

 

[Dank Bird]

Is this the seal you are talking about right? look at it it's all messed up and kind of tucked under the window in a spot

 

[joegr]

...Is this the seal you are talking about right? look at it it's all messed up and kind of tucked under the window in a spot

Actually, no it's not. (Though that one probably needs to be replaced too. The seals are under the cowl, around the wiper shafts. Usually, it is just the passenger side one that is the problem.

 

[Dank Bird]

sorry bud im not a mechanic at all that's probably obvious sorry if this is a dumb question but do I have to take something off in order to see this seal then right?

I already called over and ordered it i just want to lay eyes on it so i know what to replace

 

[joegr]

sorry bud im not a mechanic at all that's probably obvious sorry if this is a dumb question but do I have to take something off in order to see this seal then right?

I already called over and ordered it i just want to lay eyes on it so i know what to replace

Yes, you have to remove the cowl.
Remove the wiper arms from the shafts.
Disconnect the washer line.
Push the center part down on all the plastic push pins, then remove them.
Pull the cowl up. Make note of the retainers that it pops out of at the base of the windshield. It's important when you go to reinstall it.

 

[Dank Bird]

man I don't know how to thank you I had no idea it was just water getting in there but i dumped a cup of water on the passenger side windshield and water immediately poured onto the motor and into #4



the dealer would have been like 1200 for another throttle body that was next.. thank you I hope this works

Man they told me all the recalls had been done I know this was one of them.. When they put the new motor in they only put 4 out of 6 bolts back in the cover for the cops.. they are really dropping the ball here I should probably make a bad review or something.

 

[02LincLS]

5W4Z-54021A46-A is the part number for the seal kit.
Putting grease on the outside of the boot is unlikely to help since the boot does not seal to the sides of the plug wells. Pulling the boot off and putting a little around the inside of the top of the boot to seal it to the coil may help.

I think the boot is suppose to seal on those 3 ribs and keep the worst of water and dirt out. The real gain from using grease is the dielectric strength increase (or insulating ability) to keep the spark energy from discharging where it shouldn't (hence why they use a boot to begin with). The grease also keeps the rubber from drying out. You want minimal grease inside where the conductor is because you'll make it harder to get the power to the spark plug where you want it. Think of the grease as liquid electrical tape. You wouldn't put it between wires you want to connect, but you do put it on the wires after the connection is made. I do put a fairly good blob around the bottom face of the boot, and a thin smear around the whole boot (as well as the 3 ribs). The boots on mine look great after 150K.
Misfiring from bad coils is a different animal- sort of. The coil is defective and discharges its energy at the wrong time or just flat out shorts internally. You then have poorly burned air fuel mixture that then gets pushed through the catalytic converters (ruining them) and out the exhaust. If the car sees this condition with O2 sensors, it may cut fuel.
I'm kind of surprised you don't have more codes. Still lots of guess but buying the motorcraft coils and ngk plugs (that you gapped yourself) would let you clear the codes and get rid of BS code symptoms. I also use NGK iridium plugs. I've had great luck with them.

 

[02LincLS]

man I don't know how to thank you I had no idea it was just water getting in there but i dumped a cup of water on the passenger side windshield and water immediately poured onto the motor and into #4

View attachment 828475462

the dealer would have been like 1200 for another throttle body that was next.. thank you I hope this works

Man they told me all the recalls had been done I know this was one of them.. When they put the new motor in they only put 4 out of 6 bolts back in the cover for the cops.. they are really dropping the ball here I should probably make a bad review or something.

The bolts are really difficult to get to. I think I left the bottom rear one off as well.
Is it just me, or does the hex on that plug look fubar?
On the bright side, at least there's no oil in there!

 

[joegr]

...Is it just me, or does the hex on that plug look fubar?
On the bright side, at least there's no oil in there!

That's not a plug, and it would be really odd for oil to get there.

 

[02LincLS]

That's not a plug, and it would be really odd for oil to get there.

oh, looked to me like he was trying to show water in the plug well. what is it? wiper shaft?

 

[joegr]

oh, looked to me like he was trying to show water in the plug well. what is it? wiper shaft?

I thought so, but I think you are right. I think the angle blocks any view of the very base of the plug.
(Looking at a 3D object in 2D, it looked like it was protruding the first time, not it does not.)

 

[Dank Bird]

so I just went to pay for that seal so they would order it and i complained about the issue to the assistant service manager and he told me to leave the car with them she they could look at it.. no idea what they are going to say but hey whatever i'll let them. I was just going to write a bad reviews about them dropping the ball after a 9k engine replacement but ill hold of for now.

 

[Dank Bird]

they basically told me to get bent lol

 

[joegr]

they basically told me to get bent lol

Well, the extended warranty of the cowl seal, valve cover seals, and coils ran out for you in 2013 (sooner if you hit 100K miles before then).
It was never a recall.

 

[Dank Bird]

Well, the extended warranty of the cowl seal, valve cover seals, and coils ran out for you in 2013 (sooner if you hit 100K miles before then).
It was never a recall.

ya when i got there and told them what happened the asst manager acted like he was going to do something to fix the water damage it caused on the new motor at least but apparently not.

I cleaned out the water and swapped the coil and the issue is still there (still code p2107, p2110). I'm going to take the plugs out and check the gap on them tonight. and I guess ill have to bite the bullet on motorcraft coils see if that works is that my next best thing to try if checking the gap does not help? right? how do I check if the EGR valve is bad?

also where do you guys order yours online? or dealer?

Thanks again man