HELP PLEASE LS 5spd WIHT SEVERE ENGINE PROBLEMS!

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rishi65

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Hey all,
I started hearing a really awful sound from the passenger side bank near the firewall of my LS. I thought that maybe I'd burnt up a valve, as the sound was a slightly loud knocking at idle. As of late, I was informed that my cats were badly clogged, and that they should likely be cleaned ( or removed from the car) as they had caused the engine light in the car to illuminate (or so I was told by my local shop). In any case, when I started hearing this knocking, which has gotten progressively worse, I took the car in to have it looked at.
My Mechanic is now telling me that I have what sounds like a bad rod, or broken wrist pin, and that he has heard this noise before, and believes this is what it is.
The car has:
-about 90,000mi on it
-Kurtz Custom Intake
-Magnaflow 2.5's with X pipe
(NOTE: The car does not have a tune, so it may be running lean with these mods, don't know if this could be the cause of the problem)

In any case, I need to start considering my options. The car is the rare 5spd trans, and because of this, I'm not sure that the automatic V6 motor would mate properly to the 5spd.
I NEED OPTIONS and OPINIONS. ANYTHING you guys can throw out there would be helpful. From opinions on what the problem might be, to suggestions about what I should do if the motor is toast.

Thanks for any and all help you guys can provide me.
 
Can you take a video of it, post it on YouTube and put the link here for everyone here to listen to it?
 
I'm pretty sure the motor would mount right up... and I would have the cats checked out first, 02V8Sport has cited this problem a few times. If you dont want to break the bank www.car-stuff.com has OEM replacement cats for under $100 a piece.
 
Hey guys, Yes I can post a video, and I'll try to do it tonight. I'll move the camera around the engine bay to see if I can give all of you a better idea of when and where the sound is loudest. As far as replacing the cats, I think I'll probably just run the car without them-
B-
 
nickandersonLS01 said:
I'm pretty sure the motor would mount right up... and I would have the cats checked out first, 02V8Sport has cited this problem a few times. If you dont want to break the bank www.car-stuff.com has OEM replacement cats for under $100 a piece.
Click to expand...

Hey Nick, tried checkin out cats on car stuff, but keeps telling me no product found.

Do you have a direct link? and are they direct bolt on cats? or universal that need to be welded on?
 
i bet you spun a rod bearing. the rod bolts on these will stretch and allow a little play which will cause the bearing to get spun, espesially on the 5 speed because your more likely to overrev the engine. i had the same issue and did a complete rebuild. sorry but thats what i think you need to do or buy a new engine the auto engine is no different so look around for a low mile 3.0 engine, there is all sorts of used engine wholesalers on the net. its less work to pull the whole engine out and put in a new one then it is to pull your engine, tear it down and rebuild it. its also less exspensive if you have to pay someone to do it for you. just labor for the timing chains alone in 23 hours, so times that by the rate of the shop and holy :q:q:q:q. thats just to time the cams.
 
Okay, thats terrible news, but not far from what I expected. In light of the fact that I will likely replace the entire motor, does anyone know (and I doubt anyone does) if I can mate the 3.9 to the 5spd trans??? :rolleyes:
If I had a motor with the ECM and wiring harness in perfect condition, would it be possible?

Thanks guys-
 
rishi65 said:
Okay, thats terrible news, but not far from what I expected. In light of the fact that I will likely replace the entire motor, does anyone know (and I doubt anyone does) if I can mate the 3.9 to the 5spd trans??? :rolleyes:
If I had a motor with the ECM and wiring harness in perfect condition, would it be possible?

Thanks guys-
Click to expand...

i was wondering the same thing. i doubt it though unless you can change the front ecm and reuse the original rear control module for the v6 manual. i doubt it though
 
Im pretty sure the 3.9 will not bolt to the manual trans. And on top of that the manual wasn't made to handle the extra power of the V8. So you'd likely puke the transmission out onto the road not long after the swap, considering it worked in the first place.
 
Yeah, I expected this might be the case, but does anyone know for sure??? With the intake and the Catbacks, I'd be fairly certain that I'm approaching the power numbers of the V8 anyway?

Thanks a lot guys, keep the advice coming-
 
With the intake and the Catbacks, I'd be fairly certain that I'm approaching the power numbers of the V8 anyway?
Click to expand...
Don't bet on it. Bolts ons are good for 5, MAYBE 10 hp, and exhuast work usually makes you LOSE torque even if you pick up a few HP on the top end. The 1st gen v8 puts down 262 ft lbs. That's the real problem is the torque. The transmission is only rated to effectively and reliably handle a certain amount of torque.

And keep in mind that your transmission also has 90k on it. Depending on how hard you (and previous owners) have driven the car, and how well its been maintained, its probably close to /at the end of its "service life" (the age where you can fix one part without having to worry about everything else). Its probably in decent working order, but the internal parts have enough wear on them now that if one part goes, the rest will soon follow.

That's just my .02 worth. If someone else has a bit more expertise in the area I'm sure they'll pitch in and prove me wrong.
 
I have this same problem with my engine, but twords the bottem of the engine. But it onlys does it when I first start up the engine. Once the engine warms up, it goes away. So it could be something else. And also its only on the drivers side.
I have a warrenty still on the car, so I might take it in. The only problem is that I wont be able to duplicate the problem until the engine is cold.

2000 Lincoln LS V8 92,000 miles
 
The only problem is that I wont be able to duplicate the problem until the engine is cold.
Click to expand...
You'd have to leave it overnight for them to check in the morning. My guess would be piston slap. But my guess is just as good (or bad) as yours. Chevy engines are pretty famous for that. GM said it wont hurt anything, just an annoyance, when their customers complained about it. So far I haven't heard of any engines dieing because of it, so they might actually know what they're talking about.
Can't hurt to take it in and have a trained tech look at it though. Worst case, you get a whole new engine!
 
XxbmxlsxX said:
is that 262 ftlbs at the wheels?
Click to expand...

We could only wish. :p You'd REALLY have some trouble if that was at the wheels. The engine would be making roughly 315 ft lbs to accomplish that. Which would be nice. But not so. Factory numbers are at the crank, which would be ~220 ft lbs at the wheels, figuring a 17% power loss through the transmission, drive shaft, and diff. 15 - 18% is about average loss for most cars.
 
I guess that would explain a little less then average gas mileage( I baby my Lincoln), a CEL that is for emmisions, and a slightly longer startup even though its a high compression engine.... I guess ill take it in. I hate when other people drive my car...

By the way, im not trying to steal your post.
 
97stscaddy said:
We could only wish. :p You'd REALLY have some trouble if that was at the wheels. The engine would be making roughly 315 ft lbs to accomplish that. Which would be nice. But not so. Factory numbers are at the crank, which would be ~220 ft lbs at the wheels, figuring a 17% power loss through the transmission, drive shaft, and diff. 15 - 18% is about average loss for most cars.
Click to expand...

Wow, you don't 'get' torque. Torque changes with gear ratio. For example, for the auto, first gear is a 3.22:1 ratio. They kept changing the ratio of the rear end, but one common one is 3.31:1. So the final total drive ratio is 10.66:1, which means that torque has been increased by a factor of 10.66, which is about 2790 ft-lbs (minus losses for friction of course) at the peak output of the engine. Rotational speed of the rear axle has also decreased by a factor of 10.66 compared to the engine. If you only put 262 ft-lbs. of torque on the rear axle you'd go nowhere fast.
 
Wrist pins-- same thing happened on mine, the noise is from the piston slapping the head. It's less expensive to put another motor in than have the engine repaired, you have to pull it anyway to get at the short block and pull the crank, rods, pistons etc. The labor alone is $$$, the engine needs to be almost completely disassembled and reassembled, way cheaper if you can do it yourself and are blessed with a well equiped garage and lots of time for the car to be off the road. You can pick up a '00-'02 V6 for 1.2-1.8K and labor about the same to do a swap (you'd pay the same labor to pull & reinstall your current motor, then add the cost of the engine dissasembly, rebuild and parts & a rebuild just dosn't make sense).

You could mate the transmission to the V8, after all, the same tranny is used for the V8 & V6. You might have to move some bolt holes on the bellhousing, but the bigger issues are the PCM, and torque. The Getrag is spec'd for 240HP at the crank, but I'm sure that number is conservative(with the CAI, Magnaflow and SCT tune mine is still there at 149,000, and my driving is far from sedate, it sees redline with some frequency). I suspect the number is there only because Ford required it be able to handle the torque for the Jag engine.
The bigger issue is the PCM, though you might swap it out and have Torry @Ford parts network( yeah, I know, but I can't remember the new company name) reprogram the pcm to ignore transmission inputs, I think the bigger progrmmming issue might be controlling fuel flow unless it's derived solely from rpm's and not paying attention to shifting. I don't know if the radiators are different & you would most likely have to swap out fuel pumps & relocate engine mounts. Probably cheaper just to put a blower on the V6.
 
Well the moment of truth will be tomorrow afternoon. My local guys are going to pull the motor, and take off what little they can with out doing any major disassembly. 402777LS, I think that you're probably on to something, my mechanic has indicated to me that he believes the noise is a broken wrist pin. Anyway, I'll know for certain soon, and I'll be sure to let you guys know how things progress. Thanks a lot-
 
Hey all,
Sorry it's taken me so long to report back, but the work took some time to complete, as some other running gear gremlins were found as the motor was being removed. As it turns out, we were able to procure a 2002 LS V6 motor with about 104,000KMs on it (yes thats KM's). Anyway, it's now in the car, and it's running stronger than ever, without a doubt. I'm guessing various parts of this motor would have been subjected to far less abuse as it is from an automatic. I would expect that the flywheel would probably be in far better condition as well????

Anyway, I was just wondering if any one could give me a rundown on what the specific examples of parts that would be in better shape are because this motor is from an auto. Just throw em out there, thanks guys!-

B-
 
If the motor saw lower RPMs on average (auto engines usually do) then all moving parts should have had less actual use--and thus less wear.
 
same problem

I have 165,000 miles on my 2000 ls 3.9l and it has the exact same knocking sound on the passenger side. I am going to check the coils plugs and timing of the engine. I hope I get lucky and its something simple. I dont think that is going to happen from all the other reports of trouble with the ls. I have already been owned for $3800 for a new transmission from the dealer and 6,000 miles later the engine is doing this.:eek:

Has anybody had this problem and solved it?
 
Auto's don't have a fly wheel, they have a flexplate... there is certainly a difference. Anyway, they would be reusing your old flywheel since an engine from a car with an auto wouldn't have a flywheel.

The engine itself should be in better condition.... in theory. Depends how it was driven and maintained. Either way, if it's in good running order, it's better than you had before!
 
themissinglink said:
I have 165,000 miles on my 2000 ls 3.9l and it has the exact same knocking sound on the passenger side. I am going to check the coils plugs and timing of the engine. I hope I get lucky and its something simple. I dont think that is going to happen from all the other reports of trouble with the ls. I have already been owned for $3800 for a new transmission from the dealer and 6,000 miles later the engine is doing this.:eek:

Has anybody had this problem and solved it?
Click to expand...

I am going through a similar problem right now. Has the timing chains ever been changed on your car because if not I bet that is the problem. My car still ran because it was a secondary timing chain that broke which only controls the exhaust cam. Where do you live that a dealership charges $3800 for a new transmission????? I paid $2500 for mine done completely by the dealership with warranty. I got all the parts to fix and change out all the timing chains for about $600 from Pat at TeamFord. He will take care of you and one of my buddies that's a Ford Tech at a dealer is doing the labor for right under $1000 so try talking to some folks.
 
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