high end System got fudged...

lincoln_zero

lincoln_zero

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Allo,

So get this. In my 05 LS, im running some Top notch Audio. Heres my setup:

Front Deck: Pioneer 5.8'inch DVD Deck.
Front doors: Seas Silk dome D28 tweeters, Audax 5-1/4 AeroGel mids.
Rear Doors: Peerless D28 Tweeters, Audax 5-1/4Woven Kevlar Mids.
Rear dash: 8''inch Vifa/Peerless Low mid bass drivers.
Subs: Pioneer Champion Series Pro 1000 Watts RMS X 2 in sealed box (gonna port it soon)
Amps: Ample Audio 5 channel for mids and highs // Ample Audio A240 2 chennel for 8 inch mids // U.S. Amps 2000X A/B Class for subs.
1 Optima Red top, 1 Optima Yellow top

I want to compete in SQL comps. Seeing as everyone competes in SPL and i couldn't give a damn about converting my rear half of this luxury car into one massive box just to be loudest car at show =p

So i went to Team All techs show on Saturday. I decided to DB drag for the hell of it. Pulled 126 db (i know thats shyt for these subs and Amp. Sealed box tho =p ) And showed the car a bit.

WELL.... That all went to Rat shyt pretty fast. Yesterday i got some buzzing from the 8'inch mids. I removoe them and tested them on my home amp and they check out fine. After playing with my equipment, I found that my 2 channel Ample seems to be blown o_O

And make things worse, my U.S. 2000X Wasn't performing well. Now i just get signal buzzing and static through the subs (subs are fine). So im guessing my 2000X must have something blown.

Make things short: Im screwed completely out of bass with 2 expensive Amps down. .... FML .... :mad:

The Amps play, dont get me wrong. Not without buzzing and crap. I tested the RCA's, and Deck, the speakers, everything's good except these two amps..

Anyone got a suggestion of what went wrong?

Edit: I listened for clipping from drivers and didn't over play.
 
Not many audio guys on here...but i would suspect some heavy voltage dropping is culprit.

You have good batteries but without a faster/better way to charge them theres not much of a point.
 
BlackLS06 said:
Not many audio guys on here...but i would suspect some heavy voltage dropping is culprit.

You have good batteries but without a faster/better way to charge them theres not much of a point.
Click to expand...

That actually is one of my suspicions. Gonna test it tonight to see my Voltage through the cig lighters.

As for grounding, the way its set up is:

Alternator connected to Redtop
Red top + connected to yellowtop + with 200 amp fuse between
Red top - to yellowtop -

Ample 5 channel and Ample 2 channel connected to Audiopipe with 30 amp/ 60 amp fuse. Audio pipe connected to Yellowtop.

US 2000X Connected to its own audio pipe, which then connects to Yellow top.
 
nyc-eles said:
Hi nyc-eles here did you try grounding the outside of your Eva
Click to expand...

I connected with my audio guy and he grounded everything behind the deck. My issue is not only static but loss of power.. The amps turn on and play but have no balls... And when i exceed 20 on the deck (which is not that loud) they clip.

I checked the gains. Not the issue.. Checking the fuses atm ..
 
Did you do the big 3 upgrade? Loose RCA? You seem to know what your doing you have decent gear, just running through ideas.
 
Last edited:
When you say, "you checked your gains", did u use a DD1 or oscope? Those are the only effective ways to properly set your gains.
 
All that with no cap?
Cap will certainly reduce voltage sag (if that's what's causing your issue)
 
I've blown 2 amps of good quality in the ls.. Its very likely voltage drop.. I would inspect inside amps.. It usually starts with one bad mosfet and if you continue to play it will turn into a cascading effect of multiple blown mosfets. From what I gather it has something to do with the voltage regulator compensating for the voltage drop a current hungry system causes. When the amp is in the low voltage range and pulling maximum amperage to make watts and the alternators regulator bumps voltage back to the 14 v range some amplifiers can't make the adjustment as fast as the alternator does. End of story..(Magic smoke) you have to upgrade charging system and get a more constant voltage range maintained.
 
2000sport said:
All that with no cap?
Cap will certainly reduce voltage sag (if that's what's causing your issue)
Click to expand...

Im no expert but in my opinion caps are a waste of money. An isolated second battery is much better. A cap still needs to be charged and a system that's already struggling to hold a charge a cap will just make things worse.
 
In an SPL competition, where the amps are continuosly drawing near maximum current, a cap won't do much. But under normal circumstances, it should help with voltage sags during load spikes. However, if the amp has already been pushed hard in a severely under-voltage situation, the amp may already be damaged, as stated above.

I would get a DMM on the power wire going into your amps and see exactly what's going on first.
 
K some awesome ideas you guys are giving me. Ill try to answer questions first: (btw the Fuses are good)

-Theres a total of 6 RCA (FL FR RL RR SL SR) All check out clean. The Head unit seems unaffected.
Did all this upgrading in one shot.

-I didnt use a DD1 or oscope, because i dont have. But i believe my Audio guy does so I can check with him. By checking gains means I played with the gain knobs to see if they were set too low or too high. They were good.

-As for the Cap, its a good suggestion. But My lights were no where near Dimming. Which, if I'm correct, if your lights dim, that's a good indication the Alternator cant keep up. I haven't received that even during competition, mainly due to running 2 Optima batteries. So can it really be voltage Drop?

Also note: I tested my cig lighters with engine off. 12.4 Volts. Engine on, 14.4 Volts.

I cant see myself not producing current simply because there were no tattle tell signs of current loss. With everything up and running, playing full, nothing seemed to lose power.

WIRES:
From the Red Top to the Yellow Top Positives, I used 0 Gauge wiring. Then from the Yellow top to the amps, I used 4 Gauge. These are Uber thick cables.


I Remember playing the system with the car off for a bit... I wonder if I wasnt drawing enough current because the engine was off and that's what did these amps in?
But ALL 3? Thats whats weird...

OH and the 2 Channel Ample actually wasn't playing. I remember. I had the RCA's unplugged because my 8'inches weren't in the car yet. The amp was hooked up to the power, but wasn't playing. Yet, it was the first amp to go after the show.

So today, I noticed my 5 channel (the third amp, the only amp left) is losing its strength... :'( .....

Anyways when i get a chance, first thing is im gonna get a dimm on those power wires. See whats coming in from the batts. Then let you guys know.

jason2000ls said:
I've blown 2 amps of good quality in the ls.. Its very likely voltage drop.. I would inspect inside amps.. It usually starts with one bad mosfet and if you continue to play it will turn into a cascading effect of multiple blown mosfets. From what I gather it has something to do with the voltage regulator compensating for the voltage drop a current hungry system causes. When the amp is in the low voltage range and pulling maximum amperage to make watts and the alternators regulator bumps voltage back to the 14 v range some amplifiers can't make the adjustment as fast as the alternator does. End of story..(Magic smoke) you have to upgrade charging system and get a more constant voltage range maintained.
Click to expand...

You described the symptoms EXACTLY. One mosfet after another is failing...
 
WOW!!!!:eek: You only hit 126db with all that power and those subs. The U.S. Amp 2000x is rated 2x500. I did one contest in '06 hit 124.8 with only 200watts small Memphis amp with two Memphis 10"s in a ported box off the factory Alpine headunit. I know our cars are crap for sound systems. But I would have expected more with all that power.

LS%20car%20show%2023a.jpg


LSSPLSheet.jpg
 
My thoughts exactly. That score seems quite low, but it is a sealed box.

It seems like all your problems could b related to voltage drop.I think you really need to invest in a voltage meter. Connect it right on the amp to know exactly what voltage your amp is seeing at ful tilt.

When I was looking to get my system tuned and gains set there are shops that said they would do it by ear. I don't think any human being is capable of identifying clipping by ear, at least not when its initially clipping. If you plan on running your equipment to the max, there's no way around it, a DD1 or oscope is a must. Good audio shops have some on hand to use.

I beat the **** out of my XL everyday. People always ask me, "what subs are u running" and are amazed when I tell them its only one. More now that its actually broken in. I'm able to push that sucker because I believe I've done everything right.
 
2000sport said:
But under normal circumstances, it should help with voltage sags during load spikes.
Click to expand...

not at those power levels, a cap would not effect the system at all in that case, at the point where he is with a pair of great batteries, storing power is not a problem for him the only thing he could go would be to create more power.
 
as far as figuring out you problem, should take about 10 - 30 minutes.

only parts needed are an Audio source (I like to use my Droid) and a headphone to RCA cable.




start by playing music through the phone

WITH THE VOLUME TURNED MOST OF THE WAY DOWN, UNLESS YOU LIKE THE IDEAL OF PLAYING YOUR RADIO AT 100% VOLUME

with the cable plugged directly into the amps inputs and test for proper output at each speaker one at a time.

if you are experiencing any problems then you know for a fact that it is the amp (or amps) that have been damaged.

if it sounds fine, plug the RCA's back in then do the same test at the headunit but through the RCA cables.

if it then sounds bad, you have found the cables are bad, if it sounds fine, then you know that your amp and cables are fine and that the problem is with your head unit.
 
your amps would probably pull 300 plus amps of current at fulll tilt. us amps 200 plus ample 5 channel 50 ample 2 channel 60 to 80? are the amps grounded to chassis or battery
 
Ya i know 126 is terrible. My box is sealed and i didn't really intend to DB Drag. I only entered for the hellovit. I went with sealed because its accurate and tight... But i might port in near future

The U.S. 2000X puts 500 watts aside, but Bridged into 4ohm, it Delivers 2000 RMS. Its also an A/B Class mosfet, so shes clean, and power hungry. Its really a sturdy amp..

jason2000ls said:
whats voltage with key in "accesory" position without the car running?
your amps would probably pull 300 plus amps of current at fulll tilt. us amps 200 plus ample 5 channel 50 ample 2 channel 60 to 80? are the amps grounded to chassis or battery
Click to expand...

Running 12.4 even with just ignition on. Amps are grounded thru battery.
 
The Voltage drop seems VERY plausible at this point. I played my system on full with the engine off.. So that coulda done me in bad.

I might be meeting up with my Car audio guy today. Will let you guys know what was the culprit when were done...
 
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