Homegrown Terrorists

[Gruuvin8]

btw... i don't advocate exterminating muslims.... that's like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I advocate exterminating islam because it advocates throwing out the baby with the bathwater; exterminating christians and Jews. I think the only way to rid the world of islam is by educationg the people. By fully showing them the "other side" of their religion, where the good part of their religion came from, maybe they could see that it should be abandoned for a better way. That goes for christians too (the people, not the religion)... they could and should be exposed to a better way (the real truth, something we all gotta search for). I think there is and has always been a big difference between religions and real Truth. religion is man's (faulty) interpretation of the real Truth, and it is usually pushed on the masses and implemented as a form of subjection so men can attain power. there is Truth, there is religion, and there are intentions, none are all bad, and only one is all good.

The bulk of the muslim world is prohibited from education... and can't read. that's sad... and a good way to keep them from being exposed to other ideas.
democracy is a good way to help the arab world become educated and free to learn things for themselves.... they can then decide how to live with the rest of us, than be told how (without why) to object to us.

 

[Gruuvin8]

The only thing I can add to what my distinguished comrade said is that Islam, as taught by Mohammed, says that any unbeliever of Islam is an infidel, and therefore must be either converted or destroyed (killed, slaughtered). That doesn't leave much wiggle room. So any Muslim who follows those teachings and participates in terrorism is "bad".

Not all Muslims believe in their hearts that they should kill people who don't believe. This is due to their inherent sense of right and wrong; their conscience. Interestingly, this is despite what Islam teaches. These Muslims would be considered "not bad" by normal people, but probably would also be considered "bad" Muslims by the fanatical imams and clerics who preach terrorism.

Barry, I hope this helps....

i couldn't agree more, mate! cheers!


well except for this

...probably not

it probably will!
thats why were talkin bout it! i think were all helping each other.... i hope.
that's what we should be doing!

 

[barry2952]

You clearly stated that Islam is a false religion. IMHO all religion is false, made and enforced by man, who is flawed. Isn't that a basic idea in Christianity?

Do you really think that the ability to read will change viewpoints? I have trouble with that. Most Christians couldn't read until the 19th century. Nothing has changed since then. Isn't it arrogant to claim that yours is a true religion and Islam is false?

Isn't the Quran like the Bible in that it has always been subject to interpretation and those in charge of printing it have always had an influence on its meaning? Who's to say that the original Quran had all the rhetoric about killing infidels? I'm sure the Quran has been modified over time.

Isn't it true that the victors typically get to write the history?

 

[Gruuvin8]

You clearly stated that Islam is a false religion. IMHO all religion is false, made and enforced by man, who is flawed. Isn't that a basic idea in Christianity?

Yes, actually, i do agree that all religions are false (if you define false as not 100% truth) ....because i define religion as creation of man, who errs. But there is false and then there is FALSE, heh heh.... where one may be full of mistakes but with simple intentions and another may be full of intentional deceit with contrary intentions. And I think this is why we find problems within all religions. I also define Christianity as a NON-religion but a way of seeking the Truth. I believe that the Truth is found through Christ, therefore Christianity is The Way. I have much evidence to base this on which can be discussed in pm if you'd like. Catholicism is a religion based on Christianity. Protestantism is a religion based on Christianity. Baptist is a denomination of the protestant religion. They all have their faults. I think that once one indoctrinates christianity (writes their interpretation of Truth as law), they have created a religion. I believe in some religions can be found more of this Truth than in others. I think that even Islam has some truth sprinkled in there where those who do not adhere to it stricly find an answer of peace with it. I think that islam at it's core, it's "motive" if you will, is to do away with Christians and Jews -- the people not the religion. Really, I believe islam is just another religion which contains some truth, but its goal is deceit.

Do you really think that the ability to read will change viewpoints? I have trouble with that. Most Christians couldn't read until the 19th century. Nothing has changed since then. Isn't it arrogant to claim that yours is a true religion and Islam is false?

I do believe that the ability to read helps tremendously but is not 100% necessary. I believe that we all have something within in us that helps us recognize truth when we hear it, and lies as well. I believe that the worse off we become, the harder it is for that ability to discern Truth. But, in todays world where there are lies like never before, and where we are more selfish as individuals like never before, it is extremely important to be able to read everything we can and actually comb through every "story" to find small grains of Truth, and put the pieces together. Yes it would be arrogant to claim that my religion is better than another.... but i do not ascribe to any religion as I define it. I ascribe only to the way of finding the truth through Christ, and I don't at all have all the answers. I will spend my life trying to understand Truth. And, actually, I believe that the best representation of the way of Christianity as a form of religion was shortly after christ in the first generation of the churches... I think that in the last 2000 years, religions based in christianity have grown full of mistakes... that is why there is so much disagreement and confusion within them today.

Isn't the Quran like the Bible in that it has always been subject to interpretation and those in charge of printing it have always had an influence on its meaning? Who's to say that the original Quran had all the rhetoric about killing infidels? I'm sure the Quran has been modified over time.

Thats an excellent question. yes they probably have both gone through changes.... but what changes? that is the important question. Does the original Quran advocate eliminating Christians and Jews? yes i believe so because Muhammed did just that. Does the original Bible advocate that Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life? well the Bible is a collection of many books written by people who God supposedly chose to write them... and some of these books have been taken out. but the oldest books of the old testament fortold of the coming of the messiah, and the new testament book described a life lived by Jesus that could not have been possible by any human unless they ARE God. Its a story that seems to make more and more sense the more i understand it (and i initially set out to disprove it, being an atheist). It is a very different way than the way of muhammed. the history of the books are of course complicated but understandable. but the books are definately not the only proof that there was a guy named Jesus who rose from the dead. Incidently, I have only heard once that Islam was initially bases on the fact that Jesus Christ IS the ONLY TRUE MESSIAH!!! And that it was quickly re-written to subject first the arabs to be conquered under islamic rule and then on to conquer the christians and jews. I heard this on tv by a muslim woman who was interviewed. I was so interested in this claim that i have searched for evidece since.... i have found none although. If muhammed created islam, and history shows that he went on to conquer arabs and jews and then christians... by bloody force, i kinda doubt that claim.... but if i find evidence of it, i will be inclined to see it through, because i can somehow believe that this is totally possible, even if muhammed ended up drunk on his own power and claimed he himself was the messiah (which he did).

Isn't it true that the victors typically get to write the history?

yep! doesnt help education at all does it?

 

[fossten]

You clearly stated that Islam is a false religion. IMHO all religion is false, made and enforced by man, who is flawed. Isn't that a basic idea in Christianity?

Do you really think that the ability to read will change viewpoints? I have trouble with that. Most Christians couldn't read until the 19th century. Nothing has changed since then. Isn't it arrogant to claim that yours is a true religion and Islam is false?

Isn't the Quran like the Bible in that it has always been subject to interpretation and those in charge of printing it have always had an influence on its meaning? Who's to say that the original Quran had all the rhetoric about killing infidels? I'm sure the Quran has been modified over time.

Isn't it true that the victors typically get to write the history?

If you don't mind, barry, I have a little to contribute to this thread. I know you are talking with Gruuvin8, but it may be helpful.

I agree with your premise about religion, if by that you mean "religion" per se, created by man. But to worship a creator that has made His existence obvious to anyone who looks around him is not flawed; in fact, to do that fulfills the purpose for which we were created.

As far as the Quran being modified, I can't speak to that. I can, however, with confidence and much evidence, speak to the preservation of the Bible and the level of perfection with which it was translated into English. I won't bore you with the details here, but suffice it to say that God, who inspired the Bible, both possesses and has wielded the power to preserve his Word perfectly down through the centuries.

I disagree with your statement that "not much has changed since then." In fact, since the translation of the Bible into English (The Authorized King James Version), there have been numerous revivals and reformations, both in England and the United States, producing hundreds of thousands of conversions.

Christianity teaches faith and repentance in Jesus Christ as the atonement of our sins. He commands us to love one another and spread all his teachings around the world. Nowhere in the Bible does He EVER advocate killing unbelievers; in fact, He urges Christians to warn unbelievers before it is too late. So the question I have for you is this: If you only had two choices: The aforementioned Christianity, or the also aforementioned Islam, which one appears to be more God-like? Saving souls or killing people?

Not many people realize this, but the God of the Bible and Allah of the Quran are not the same person.

It isn't nearly as arrogant to claim that Christianity is the true religion than it is arrogant to kill anyone who doesn't believe in Islam and Mohammed. By its very nature, then, Islam is a false religion. No true religion would spread hate and death and terrorism.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

Overall, I concur w/ Barry and Gruuvin8's assertion that all religions are "false" to an extent, and that NO religion has a full grasp on "the truth" about the universe we live in. That's why (in case 'yall couldn't tell) I'm very distrustful of any organized religion, and have a low tolerance for anyone who is too self-rightous about their own religion. I also believe that EACH religion has something "right" and "positive" (i.e.: GOOD) to bring to the table of universal understanding amongst all people of this earth. I simply don't believe that any one religion is purely evil, whether it's veiled in deceitful teachings or not. I live my life by filtering what I've read, seen, heard, feel etc. and draw my own experiences to guide me through life in a positive manner that I believe pleases my God. If I had one mantra to live my life by, it'd have to be "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Corrilaries to that are, "Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house", "Walk a mile in the other guy's shoes before passing judgement", etc. Instead of asking "What would Jesus Do?", I ask "What would Scooby Doo?"

As far as this issue of Islam, the Quran and Muslims, I know several peace-loving Muslims who practice the religion of Islam. So I find it hard to believe Islam is evil at its core. However I have not studied the history of it or the teachings in any level of detail, and knowing how practitioners of religions are not necessarily experts, it could be possible that millions of peace-loving Muslims are being mislead like a flock of sheep (familiar visual?) as Gruuvin8 asserts. I do believe that Islam has a "dark side" (the movie "Malcom X" touches on it), but I also believe all religions have a "dark side". Not having studied the world's religions in excrutiating detail myself to see how they've evolved and been distorted over the centuries, who am I to judge any one of them?

Which brings me back to my original post. I still believe I was drawing a valid parallel comparing apples to apples. Maybe some think I was comparing a "red delicious apple" (sweet) to a "green apple" (sour), but both are apples none the less.

 

[fossten]

Overall, I concur w/ Barry and Gruuvin8's assertion that all religions are "false" to an extent, and that NO religion has a full grasp on "the truth" about the universe we live in. That's why (in case 'yall couldn't tell) I'm very distrustful of any organized religion, and have a low tolerance for anyone who is too self-rightous about their own religion. I also believe that EACH religion has something "right" and "positive" (i.e.: GOOD) to bring to the table of universal understanding amongst all people of this earth. I simply don't believe that any one religion is purely evil, whether it's veiled in deceitful teachings or not. I live my life by filtering what I've read, seen, heard, feel etc. and draw my own experiences to guide me through life in a positive manner that I believe pleases my God. If I had one mantra to live my life by, it'd have to be "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Corrilaries to that are, "Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house", "Walk a mile in the other guy's shoes before passing judgement", etc. Instead of asking "What would Jesus Do?", I ask "What would Scooby Doo?"

As far as this issue of Islam, the Quran and Muslims, I know several peace-loving Muslims who practice the religion of Islam. So I find it hard to believe Islam is evil at its core. However I have not studied the history of it or the teachings in any level of detail, and knowing how practitioners of religions are not necessarily experts, it could be possible that millions of peace-loving Muslims are being mislead like a flock of sheep (familiar visual?) as Gruuvin8 asserts. I do believe that Islam has a "dark side" (the movie "Malcom X" touches on it), but I also believe all religions have a "dark side". Not having studied the world's religions in excrutiating detail myself to see how they've evolved and been distorted over the centuries, who am I to judge any one of them?

Which brings me back to my original post. I still believe I was drawing a valid parallel comparing apples to apples. Maybe some think I was comparing a "red delicious apple" (sweet) to a "green apple" (sour), but both are apples none the less.

The only thing your original posts do are show how confused you are. You imply on one hand that the Bush administration has "created" terrorists. You then state that the "holy war" has been going on for centuries. In other posts I have listed for everyone here, you have stated that the U.S. is the "bully" who is to blame for terrorism.

If this "holy war" has been going on for centuries, then logically one man and his country opposing it isn't going to "create" more of it. Opposition will either slow the advance or not affect it at all.

You can't have it both ways.

The only thing this last post does for you is illustrate that you don't know what you're talking about concerning Islam.

 

[Gruuvin8]

islam is like a rat poison cake with tasty buttercream icing.
some people just lick the icing, but they are still buying the cake.

 

[barry2952]

Do the tasters deserve to be exterminated too?

 

[Gruuvin8]

Do the tasters deserve to be exterminated too?

now now.... i never EVER said muslims should be exterminated.... just islam!

do i have to draw a picture too?


________
| quran | <--islam


.O
-|- <----muslim
./\


This is what bothers me.... we can try to tell people till we're blue in the face but they still don't hear it.

This problem of terrorism does not stem from just a few radical people who are not correctly following their religion..... terrorism stems from their RELIGION!! it's written in their quran!!!! the root of the problem is not the people, its the religion!!

 

[fossten]

Do the tasters deserve to be exterminated too?

Classic liberal distortion.

 

[Gruuvin8]

Classic liberal distortion.

:I even if the truth would hit 'em like a Mack truck, they'd still only believe what they have wanted to believe.

 

[fossten]

:I even if the truth would hit 'em like a Mack truck, they'd still only believe what they have wanted to believe.

And try to make it look like you're actually saying what they believe.

 

[Gruuvin8]

And try to make it look like you're actually saying what they believe.

yes!... and oddly enough, they don't even seem to realize they are twisting things.

I mean, in all my numerous posts in this thread, I (and you) made the distinction between the religion and the people MANY times! And for some reason, they still think that we think they are one and the same. Nevermind if they agree or not, they still don't know what I typed MANY times in this thread!!! truly amazing! This is mainly why I tire quickly of arguing politics with liberals. I mean generally we conservatives hear and understand the arguments of the liberals, and often try to offer evidence of their errors and solutions to the real problems. But the liberals generally don't seem to even listen to anything a conservative says! It's no wonder they don't understand and offer solutions these days. They aren't even really paying attention to the core of the issues. They just dance around the issues enough to create a twist that fits their pre-supposed notions of delusion. How can they not realize that from a logical standpoint of argument, right or wrong, they are nowhere near using a follow through of logic to make their points, but just playing devil's advocate. This is almost beyond me because I refuse to believe they are just stupid, because they are clever at what they do! artful dodgers!

Maybe not 100% of the time but usually, and certainly in this thread!

And I'm not really trying to offend anyone here..... heh heh, cuz I don't think that those who might be offended ever really paid enough attention!

 

[MonsterMark]

This is almost beyond me because I refuse to believe they are just stupid, because they are clever at what they do! artful dodgers!

The reason I pushed for a 'Political Forum' on a car site was to try to understand how the other side thinks.

Quick point: The were some comments about having a separate site linked to this site to carry on political discussions. I know I am not in favor of that and would not frequent that off-site very often. I want to discuss politics with everyday people and I want to effect those everyday people like the ones that would tend to frequent a car site. I think they are the most fertile group to engage.

I don't understand how almost 50% of this populace votes for the other guy. I really, really don't. How can 2 people look at the same issue and come out of it with completely different viewpoints? I just don't get it. Especially when I personally feel the side I usually side with is correct on the issues 80-90% of the time.

This is the reason I am here. 1st to have fun. 2nd to share ideas. 3rd to poke some fun at the opposition and 4th to maybe open up some minds that may think or believe differently than myself.

 

[Gruuvin8]

... This is the reason I am here. 1st to have fun. 2nd to share ideas. 3rd to poke some fun at the opposition and 4th to maybe open up some minds that may think or believe differently than myself.

:I

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

this is a website that lists some of the things in the quran that are destructive. you can click on the points and be redirected to another website with the text of the quran (the watered down english version). here are a few of the main points that make the quran and islam a serious problem:

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
War is ordained by Allah.
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant
When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell
Exhort the believers to fight. They will win easily, because disbelievers are without intelligence.
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.
If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom.
Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway.
Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire.
Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you.
Allah does not hear the prayer of disbelievers.
Allah sends some people astray
Iblis will lead humans astray. Only perfect Muslims will be safe from him. The rest will go to hell.
Allah could have led everyone to the truth, but he chose not to
Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved.
The people cried out for mercy, but Allah killed them anyway.
Whoever thinks that Allah will not give Muhammad victory should go hang himself.
It's okay for believers to own slaves
Allah leads those who do not believe in the Hereafter astray by making things work out OK in this life, so that he can torment them forever in the next. They will get the worst punishment and will be the greatest losers.
Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying: Where are My partners whom ye imagined?
Never help disbelievers.
Allah will tear Christians apart for ascribing partners to him.
It's OK to own slaves.
Allah does not love disbelievers
Allah will give disbelievers a little comfort for a little while, and then he'll torment them forever with a heavy doom.
Allah sends whoever he wants astray.
If Allah feels like it, he will drown everyone
Allah sends some people astray and then punishes them for it by burning them in the Fire.
Allah will taunt the disbelievers that he torments in the fire, saying: "Taste the doom for that ye disbelieved."
Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded.
Allah curses people by making them deaf and blind.
If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom.
But if you're willing to fight for Allah, he will provide you with lots of booty.
Don't make friends with Allah's enemies. For those who do so, Allah has prepared a dreadful doom.
On the Last Day good Muslims will not love their non-Muslim friends and family members, not even their fathers, sons, or brothers (or their mothers, daughters, or sisters).
Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy.
Don't be friends with those who have warred against you because of religion. Whoever makes friends with them is a wrong-doer.
Don't be friends with those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. They are Allah's enemies.
Allah loves those who fight for him.
A hypocritical Jew looks like an ass carrying books. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are ugly
Allah seals the hearts of those who believe and then disbelieve so that they can understand nothing.
Don't bother to ask Allah to forgive the disbelievers. He will never forgive them.
Muhammad's wives need to be careful. If they criticize their husband, Allah will replace them with better ones

 

[fossten]

Wow. I knew it was bad, but...that's powerful. Do you lefties see why we can't reason with these fanatics?

 

[barry2952]

!

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

:Bang :Bang :Bang

I'm going to try this ONE more time before I give up, as you seem to have a mind-block comprehending what I've stated.

The only thing your original posts do are show how confused you are. You imply on one hand that the Bush administration has "created" terrorists.

To deny that terrorist attacks have increased rapidly over the last year or so in response to the US invasion of Iraq is ignoring FACTS and shows pure ignorance.

You then state that the "holy war" has been going on for centuries.

Yep, most here agree as well.

In other posts I have listed for everyone here, you have stated that the U.S. is the "bully" who is to blame for terrorism.

You've exagerated my statements once again. No where did I place 100% of the blame for all the world's terrorism on the US or at BuSh's feet. But to claim that the US foreign policy over the last several decades, and more specifically this Iraq war, is totally innocent of instigating backlash from terrorists is again blatant ignorance.

If this "holy war" has been going on for centuries, then logically one man and his country opposing it isn't going to "create" more of it. Opposition will either slow the advance or not affect it at all.

Since when has logic applied to terrorists? If you walk near a hornets nest and you get stung, what do you think will happen if you poke a stick into that nest? You better be prepared to get stung many times over. A smart man would put on protective gear before poking that hornets nest. I only wish one was in the White House.

You can't have it both ways.

Already have.

The only thing this last post does for you is illustrate that you don't know what you're talking about concerning Islam.

Thank you Mr. Obvious. The only one here that seems to (or claims to) have an innate knowledge of Islam and the Quran is Gruuvin8. However his agressive, passionate approach makes his credibility questionable. He may be totally right, and I've never claimed to know more, only that I'm having a hard time swallowing every word he says.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

yes!... and oddly enough, they don't even seem to realize they are twisting things.

I mean, in all my numerous posts in this thread, I (and you) made the distinction between the religion and the people MANY times! And for some reason, they still think that we think they are one and the same. Nevermind if they agree or not, they still don't know what I typed MANY times in this thread!!! truly amazing! This is mainly why I tire quickly of arguing politics with liberals. I mean generally we conservatives hear and understand the arguments of the liberals, and often try to offer evidence of their errors and solutions to the real problems. But the liberals generally don't seem to even listen to anything a conservative says! It's no wonder they don't understand and offer solutions these days. They aren't even really paying attention to the core of the issues. They just dance around the issues enough to create a twist that fits their pre-supposed notions of delusion. How can they not realize that from a logical standpoint of argument, right or wrong, they are nowhere near using a follow through of logic to make their points, but just playing devil's advocate. This is almost beyond me because I refuse to believe they are just stupid, because they are clever at what they do! artful dodgers!

Maybe not 100% of the time but usually, and certainly in this thread!

And I'm not really trying to offend anyone here..... heh heh, cuz I don't think that those who might be offended ever really paid enough attention!

Gruuvin8, THANK YOU for making clear the distinction between the people (Muslims) and the religion (Islam). We GOT it, you either just don't realize it, or refuse to accept it.

The rest of your tirade describes exactly how I feel taking to brainwashed conservatives. This is a two-way street, bud. :Beer

 

[Gruuvin8]

Exactly what was your intention with this thread? To make us think it's not fair to come down so hard on islamic terrorism because terrorists existed within Christian circles too? Two wrongs don't make a right. It's obvious that many folks don't understand what it is about islam that fuels terrorism, so they act like we should see the issue from the terrorist muslim's point of view, and give islam a little more respect. I know what you are getting at. It's misdirection -- it's a waste of time. I'm trying to show you where our current problem with terrorism comes from, which is also a waste of time. So, read the Bible and the quran, and educate yourself. Proclaim your insight into the problem of terrorism when you actually understand it. And thanks for the beer! :Beer

 

[fossten]

He may be totally right, and I've never claimed to know more, only that I'm having a hard time swallowing every word he says.

You wouldn't have such a hard time swallowing what he says if your foot wasn't shoved so far down your throat you could sit on it.

You DID call the U.S. the bully that is getting what it deserves. The quote is in this very thread. You're not fooling anybody. Prevarication only works in the absence of good sense AND evidence.

And I would like to point out, since you evidently need to hear from Mr. Obvious, that there hasn't been ONE successful attack on U.S. soil since 9/11, and YES you can credit President Bush for that.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

You wouldn't have such a hard time swallowing what he says if your foot wasn't shoved so far down your throat you could sit on it.

Is this hostility really necessary? Grow up.

You DID call the U.S. the bully that is getting what it deserves. The quote is in this very thread. You're not fooling anybody. Prevarication only works in the absence of good sense AND evidence.

You keep arguing in circles, pulling the trigger, and all I hear is "click, click" and no "bang". You've run out of bullets. You think I'm confused. I say you are confused from reading more into my statements than what is there. Take off your shrub-colored glasses and re-read my statements and check back when you fully comprehend what I've said. Until then, PISS OFF.

Exactly what was your intention with this thread? To make us think it's not fair to come down so hard on islamic terrorism because terrorists existed within Christian circles too? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Cliff notes for Gruuvin8 and fossten:

My intention of this thread:
1) To point out that religion-fueled terrorism is not only limited to muslim extremists. I used Rudolf as an example.
2) To question hypothetically, "how many more homegrown terrorists have been spawned by BuSh and his actions in Iraq". My proof that BuSh has "spawned" terrorists is that the recent attacks in London were by people who are essentially "homegrown", and they were acting in retaliation of Britan's presence in Iraq, which is a result of BuSh's declaration of war. I did not even initially mention the extraordinary increase (since even a year ago) in suicide bombers (the "insurgents") attacking Iraqi civilians and US soldiers in Iraq, but they count too as A) they are most likely "homegrown", and B) it'd be a safe bet that most of them (the suicide bombers) would not have become "terrorists" had the US stayed out of Iraq.

NO, two wrongs don't make a right, but listening to most of the drivel coming from the RWWs here one would think it does.

I know Barry gets it. I'm pretty sure Gruuvin8 and maybe even Bryan now gets it. The only question remaining in my mind is does fossten get it? WAIT, DON'T ANSWER FOSSTEN, I REALLY DON'T CARE.

 

[MonsterMark]

Are we having fun yet

or what

!

 

[barry2952]

I must admit that I've learned a great deal from Groovin8's posts. I can not say the same for Fossten. It is sad to see someone get their rocks off insulting anyone with a different point of view.

The rest of us have managed to tone down the hostilities yet fossten persists in trying to force his opinions down our throats. He has even taken to calling people liars. I believe his personal attacks have gone on far too long and I think it is time for something to be done about it.

What do you all think?