I’m officially done with George W. Bush

[fossten]

I’m officially done with George W. Bush. He's really gone too far this time.

It’s one thing to disagree with your political enemies. It’s entirely another thing to publicly castigate your staunchest supporters. That’s what President Bush did yesterday. He and his cabinet member Linda Chavez compared (obliquely) those who vehemently oppose (rightly so) his comprehensive immigration bill to…Nazis. That’s right, Nazis. Go read the quote from her speech about how Americans view Latinos as dirty, etc. He also accused conservatives of fearmongering and not wanting to do what is right for America.

For a little perspective, let’s go back over the recent failures of this administration:

No child left behind
Harriet Miers
Alberto Gonzalez
Prescription drug/medicare
Social Security reform
No pardons for border agents doing their jobs and going to prison
Out of control spending without veto
Increasing the size of the federal government
Minimalist policy in the middle east – failing to acknowledge the culpability of countries like Saudi Arabia being responsible for terrorism

And what did the liberals do to Bush for all these failures? That’s right, they bashed him. They cut him to pieces. And what did he do back? Nothing. In fact, he made a point to refuse to question the Democrats’ patriotism in regard to cutting funding for Iraq. Remember his quote? “I’m not questioning [Murtha’s] patriotism, only his judgment.” So he won’t take the gloves off, right? Except when it comes to his own supporters.

What did we conservatives do while we took all these sucker punches from Bush? That’s right, we stood by him. We supported him. We went to the mat for him and got him reelected. We defended him to lib wackos (no offense to present company intended). And what did he just do to us? He questioned our patriotism. He called us names. He has turned on his base at the prospect of gaining a few million Mexican votes.

Well, Mr. President, you may have single-handedly destroyed the Republican party with this one, even more completely than McCain did with campaign finance reform. And the Republicans who are going along with you are going to lose their support across the nation. According to recent polls, only 16% of the American people really believe this immigration bill is going to work. Imagine what percentage of conservatives believe that. Even Rush Limbaugh, one of Bush's staunchest defenders on the Iraq war, had to sadly admit yesterday that he was at a loss.

I don’t think Bush can do without the support of conservatives. He is sabotaging his own legacy along with selling out the country. Yeah, he’s a lame duck, but he will have to answer to what happens to the GOP, and the GOP looks like it’s about to circle the same drain along with him.

 

[MonsterMark]

FYI, I trashed some of the posts here because they did nothing to further the conversation. Nobody was singled out. Even the Godfather's posts were trashed (sorry Joey), but I want the topic to remain clean so we can have an intelligent conversation. (Well almost intelligent if Tommy is going to post.)
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So are we supposed to let the Dems have the agenda on this issue and then the Dems go out and recruit (give away the freebies) to put all these people on their payroll (votes) and Republicans will never again win an election?

I am not in favor of what Bush is doing, BUT, they are here, they do work and most pay taxes (at least SS and Medicare).

What we need to do is make sure they assimilate into this country and cut out all the b.s. 2nd language crap.

 

[TheDude]

I’m officially done with George W. Bush. He's really gone too far this time.

It’s one thing to disagree with your political enemies. It’s entirely another thing to publicly castigate your staunchest supporters. That’s what President Bush did yesterday. He and his cabinet member Linda Chavez compared (obliquely) those who vehemently oppose (rightly so) his comprehensive immigration bill to…Nazis. That’s right, Nazis. Go read the quote from her speech about how Americans view Latinos as dirty, etc. He also accused conservatives of fearmongering and not wanting to do what is right for America.

For a little perspective, let’s go back over the recent failures of this administration:

No child left behind
Harriet Miers
Alberto Gonzalez
Prescription drug/medicare
Social Security reform
No pardons for border agents doing their jobs and going to prison
Out of control spending without veto
Increasing the size of the federal government
Minimalist policy in the middle east – failing to acknowledge the culpability of countries like Saudi Arabia being responsible for terrorism

And what did the liberals do to Bush for all these failures? That’s right, they bashed him. They cut him to pieces. And what did he do back? Nothing. In fact, he made a point to refuse to question the Democrats’ patriotism in regard to cutting funding for Iraq. Remember his quote? “I’m not questioning [Murtha’s] patriotism, only his judgment.” So he won’t take the gloves off, right? Except when it comes to his own supporters.

What did we conservatives do while we took all these sucker punches from Bush? That’s right, we stood by him. We supported him. We went to the mat for him and got him reelected. We defended him to lib wackos (no offense to present company intended). And what did he just do to us? He questioned our patriotism. He called us names. He has turned on his base at the prospect of gaining a few million Mexican votes.

Well, Mr. President, you may have single-handedly destroyed the Republican party with this one, even more completely than McCain did with campaign finance reform. And the Republicans who are going along with you are going to lose their support across the nation. According to recent polls, only 16% of the American people really believe this immigration bill is going to work. Imagine what percentage of conservatives believe that. Even Rush Limbaugh, one of Bush's staunchest defenders on the Iraq war, had to sadly admit yesterday that he was at a loss.

I don’t think Bush can do without the support of conservatives. He is sabotaging his own legacy along with selling out the country. Yeah, he’s a lame duck, but he will have to answer to what happens to the GOP, and the GOP looks like it’s about to circle the same drain along with him.

Welcome back and I am truly surprised... see, the Dems/Mods have been telling you he's a "lame duck" for over two years now, about time you opened your eyse ... How will he have to answer though? He's on the ass-end of his second term.

 

[Joeychgo]

I am not in favor of what Bush is doing, BUT, they are here, they do work and most pay taxes (at least SS and Medicare).

What we need to do is make sure they assimilate into this country and cut out all the b.s. 2nd language crap.

First - no, they dont pay taxes. I have seen this myself. They claim 10 dependants so the absolute minimum is taken out of their check. They are on bogus SS#s and never file anything at the end of the year. They do pay their SSI and Medicare, but thats it.

I agree, we have to assimilate them. My relatives had to learn english, nobody learned Italian to converse with them. Same with the Irish. They had to learn to drink in American bars, nobody converted to Irish pubs back in the day.

As I posted in my blog recently:

Those of you who know me know that Im neither republican or democrat. I just look at the issues and decide what I think about them independant of what one party or the other says.

Immigration is one of the bigger issues of the day. I see one major flaw in just about every proposal on how to deal with it. There is little or no penalty for the illegal. They get caught, and sent back to wherever they came from. No real penalty. How can we expect to deter the flow of illegal immigrants if they have nothing to lose by coming here illegally? How can we expect them to go through the red tape of legal immagration if it is literally easier and without consequence to come here illegally?

Over the years we have had several ‘amnesties’ for those here illegally. We are always of the mindset that we will do better on border security in the future, but we never address any real consequences for those who actually break the law and cross the border. This doesnt seem fair to those who do go through the process of obtaining legitimate immigration status.

We also have the issue of the wall on the border of Mexico. Some say it wont do much good. Facts seem to say otherwise. The City of San Diego put up such a wall between themselves and Mexico. Since construction of the San Diego Border Fence began in 1996, the smuggling of people and narcotics has dropped drastically and crime rates have been reduced by 50% according to FBI statistics.

So what I would suggest, is that we create some penalties for those caught here illegally. How about a year at labor, such labor to be building and maintaining the wall we’re building. Second offence, 2 years. This would be in addition to some kind of guest worker program, and near amnesty for those already here. Guest workers should be charged tax on a paycheck per paycheck basis. In addition, allow those already here illegally to apply for legal status. If they apply in the US, they must pay a fine. or they can return to Mexico and apply from there with no fine. If caught, well, they help build the wall.

I dont understand what all the wrangling is about with our politicians. Seems pretty simple to me.

http://www.joeychgo.com/

 

[TheDude]

How about 4 years served in any of the armed forces; that makes someone an automatic citizen right? They want to live in America and be Americans so bad that they don't mind breaking the law, let them serve the country for a few years.

 

[fossten]

How about 4 years served in any of the armed forces; that makes someone an automatic citizen right? They want to live in America and be Americans so bad that they don't mind breaking the law, let them serve the country for a few years.

Great idea, then some of the ones who are actually Al Qaeda that have sneaked across the border can feed military intel to their buddies across the globe. And the rest of them that don't have a high school education and don't speak the language will be so trustworthy to follow orders and not blow themselves and their commanders to little tiny bits.

Great idea, Deville. </sarcasm off>

 

[skenneyjr]

this government will :q:q:q:q us all over if we dont watch it, and no matter who wins 08, we have a dim 4 years ahead of up

 

[TheDude]

Great idea, then some of the ones who are actually Al Qaeda that have sneaked across the border can feed military intel to their buddies across the globe. And the rest of them that don't have a high school education and don't speak the language will be so trustworthy to follow orders and not blow themselves and their commanders to little tiny bits.

Great idea, Deville. </sarcasm off>

1) If the "sneaky Al Qaida" ones want to join the military in order to do as you say, they can join regardless.

2) The uneducated ones wouldn’t make it past the initial test I gather, so that would weed out the ones you think wouldn't have the brain power to throw the grenade instead on the pin.

Not great as much as good, you ass. *Points middle finger*

 

[Joeychgo]

this government will :q:q:q:q us all over if we dont watch it, and no matter who wins 08, we have a dim 4 years ahead of up

Well, the last 6 years havent been very bright.

 

[MonsterMark]

Well, the last 6 years havent been very bright.

Ya, everybody's life sucks. Nothing good has happened. Bush all bad.

 

[skenneyjr]

the last 6 years have been bad but would you honestly want an idiot like hilary or a socialist like obama running the country and being the most powerful human on the planet?

 

[fossten]

Ya, everybody's life sucks. Nothing good has happened. Bush all bad.

Bryan, you really support Bush on this issue? You're caving by accepting that they are already here? So you don't think we should deport illegals?

 

[MonsterMark]

Bryan, you really support Bush on this issue? You're caving by accepting that they are already here? So you don't think we should deport illegals?

I'm kind of in a pickle here. I had hired illegals in the past not knowing and certainly not checking their credentials but just kind of knew. (More than 10 years ago for all you nut jobs). Police and Fire were called to the plant one night (I had a chemical plant so of course everybody in government had to be there) and an officer told me one of the individuals was only 16 and working late at night. He also indicated he thought he was not legal. Without having to bear the brunt of the US immigration office, I called everyone into the plant on Saturday, did a dress down on each and every employee and fired 80% of my workforce. (Try doing that with your workforce and survive).

Anyway, after the house cleaning I paid a little more attention into who my people were hiring. Let me say this, the people we did hire were hardworking and appreciative of the lifestyle our business had provided. Once I dropped off checks to the employees by their places of residence. I was invited into a couple of the homes. I was somewhat shocked and at the same time impressed by what I saw. Number one shock was the conditions they lived in. 8-10 to a small house. Number two was that they were happy and actually living fairly well. I know that most of the money being earned was going back to Mexico and a couple of longer term employees were able to quit and move into new homes they bought and paid cash for in Mexico from their savings here.

First thing we must do is close the border immediately. That is not even a question. Close it and enforce it. NOW!

Then we need to put as much effort into bringing citizenship to the class of people that have been working. Most of them receive a W-2, whether illegal or legal. Show the employer W-2, demonstrate they have been productive members of our society and give them citizenship.

The others that have been working for cash, etc, they go back and start over. Simple as that.

Amnesty for the ones that have been productive, the door for the ones working the system. And if they have collected unemployment (as many have) or any other type services, they get shown the door also.

That's my answer. So I think Bush is on the right track, but it needs serious modification to make it workable.

 

[Calabrio]

Well, the last 6 years havent been very bright.

On 9/12/2001, had I told you that in next six years we wouldn't have another attack on American soil and that the economy would be booming for years for several years, would you have believed it? I wouldn't have.

Bush's Presidency has been a remarkable success in many regards. Iraq, the major cause of his political and popularity problems, was an ambitious undertaking, one that hadn't been tried before. I've said it before, hopefully, the military and civilian leadership are at least learning from the mistakes and will incorporate the lessons into any future endevour.

 

[skenneyjr]

MonsterMark you basically just said teh plan that i believe would solve most of our problems!

 

[fossten]

Then we need to put as much effort into bringing citizenship to the class of people that have been working. Most of them receive a W-2, whether illegal or legal. Show the employer W-2, demonstrate they have been productive members of our society and give them citizenship.

The others that have been working for cash, etc, they go back and start over. Simple as that.

Amnesty for the ones that have been productive, the door for the ones working the system. And if they have collected unemployment (as many have) or any other type services, they get shown the door also.

That's my answer. So I think Bush is on the right track, but it needs serious modification to make it workable.

The one fatal flaw in your solution, and by the way Bush's solution, is summarized by these questions:

What if they refuse to cooperate?

How are you going to find them since you don't enforce the current laws anyway?

Failing to enforce current immigration laws indicates an unlikelihood of enforcing any future laws.

You also are ignoring the FACT that the moment the bill passes, 20 million illegals become LEGAL. That means they are now eligible for healthcare benefits and social benefits. This country's economy is already being strained by these people and this bill will make it that much more strained.

Face facts, Bryan, the only reason the politicians in Washington (who have no more connection to us American citizens) want this bill is b/c they want to fight over these Mexicans as future voters. So we're importing a slave class. Which party do you think they will vote for?

 

[Calabrio]

What if they refuse to cooperate?

How are you going to find them since you don't enforce the current laws anyway?

Failing to enforce current immigration laws indicates an unlikelihood of enforcing any future laws.

If you presume the laws are going to be unenforced, simply passing tougher laws deporting millions is even LESS likely to ever happen.

Furthermore, if you come up with an unworkable solution, you do two things- first by passing unenforcable laws, you undermine the credibility of all laws. And second, you risk driving a huge population even deeper into an underground culture, further limiting the ability for the population to assimilate as Americans and not as a sub-culture of South Americans.

You also are ignoring the FACT that the moment the bill passes, 20 million illegals become LEGAL. That means they are now eligible for healthcare benefits and social benefits. This country's economy is already being strained by these people and this bill will make it that much more strained.

This needs to be examined. However, let's also note, since any kind of reform of S.S. in the years with a Democrats control of anything government is next to impossible, if we don't have a huge influx of working age Americans going into the next century to support S.S., we will go bankrupt.

Face facts, Bryan, the only reason the politicians in Washington (who have no more connection to us American citizens) want this bill is b/c they want to fight over these Mexicans as future voters. So we're importing a slave class. Which party do you think they will vote for?

This goes back to your earlier point, if they cross the border into a nanny-state, then the Democrats will buy their votes for the next century. But culturally, the good migrants who come to this country are more closely aligned with the values of the GOP.

 

[MonsterMark]

The one fatal flaw in your solution, and by the way Bush's solution, is summarized by these questions:

What if they refuse to cooperate?

How are you going to find them since you don't enforce the current laws anyway?

Failing to enforce current immigration laws indicates an unlikelihood of enforcing any future laws.

You also are ignoring the FACT that the moment the bill passes, 20 million illegals become LEGAL. That means they are now eligible for healthcare benefits and social benefits. This country's economy is already being strained by these people and this bill will make it that much more strained.

Face facts, Bryan, the only reason the politicians in Washington (who have no more connection to us American citizens) want this bill is b/c they want to fight over these Mexicans as future voters. So we're importing a slave class. Which party do you think they will vote for?

#1. I am not in favor of THIS BILL. It needs major reworking.

#2. If they don't respond in a certain timeframe, regardless of reason, (moved, etc.) they are gone.

#3. We find the ones we want via W-2 as I said. Easiest way to track them. If they don't respond, gone.

#4. Write whatever legislation again to enforce the law.

#5. Not in favor of this Bill. I am not for all-encompassing amnesty.

#6. Most illegals are Christian and tend to be conservative. They are certainly a block of voters that can be won over. Who wins. The Dems. They will give everything away for free and will continue to destroy this culture. Hell, the illegals won't work when they get can the money for free. Heck, most of them worked here AND collected unemployment. I still get letters from the IRS trying to track people down who's SS didn't match up or from Unemployment on people who claimed benefits when they were working.

The W-2 route is my only solution. Hiring 1.2 million buses to deport the gang won't do it.

 

[fossten]

The W-2 route is my only solution. Hiring 1.2 million buses to deport the gang won't do it.

Why not? Mayor Ray (Chocolate City) Nagin's not using his.

And I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of why the Mexicans will vote Democrat. Totally accurate. I will only add that the last time this happened, Reagan gave amnesty to millions of Mexicans, and guess who they vote for now? DING DING DING That's right, the Democrats.

 

[fossten]

Looks like Ann agrees with me...what more could I ask?

A GREEN CARD IN EVERY POT

by Ann Coulter
May 30, 2007

Americans — at least really stupid Americans like George Bush — believe the natural state of the world is to have individual self-determination, human rights, the rule of law and a robust democratic economy. On this view, most of the existing world and almost all of world history is a freakish aberration.

In fact, the natural state of the world is Darfur. The freakish aberration is America and the rest of the Anglo-Saxon world.

The British Empire once spread the culture of prosperity around the globe — Judeo-Christian values, tolerance, equality, private property and the rule of law. All recipients of the British Empire's largesse benefited, but the empire's most successful colony was the United States.

At the precise moment in history when the U.S. has abandoned any attempt to transmit Anglo-Saxon virtues to its own citizens, much less to immigrants, George Bush wants to grant citizenship to hordes of immigrants who are here precisely because they are fleeing cultures that are utterly dysfunctional and ruinous for the humans who live in them.

Yes, this country has absorbed huge migrations of illiterate peasants in the past — notably Italian immigrants at the turn of the last century. But also notably, half of them went back. We got the good ones. America was not yet a welfare state guaranteeing room and board to the luckless, the lazy and the incompetent from cradle to grave.

Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, immigrant and first Jewish member of the Supreme Court, said that Americanization required that the immigrant adopt "the clothes, the manners and the customs generally prevailing here" and that he adopt "the English language as the common medium of speech."

But, Brandeis said, this is only part of it. "(W)e properly demand of the immigrant even more than this — he must be brought into complete harmony with our ideals and aspirations and cooperate with us for their attainment. Only when this has been done will he possess the national consciousness of an American."

Or as George Bush would call it, "empty rhetoric." And as Linda Chavez would call it, "racist."

I wish our new immigrants had come to America back when the foundations of civic society and patriotism were still inculcated in all immigrants (and when half of them went home). But traitors who are citizens have destroyed all acculturating institutions. Traitors who are citizens have also destroyed all incentive for the poor to work or even keep their knees together before marriage.

Until the recipient culture is capable of doing an effective job of Americanizing immigrants, it's preposterous to talk about a massive influx of Hispanic immigrants accomplishing anything other than turning America into yet another Latin American-style banana republic. And it is simply a fact that no one is trying to turn immigrants into Americans.

To the contrary, Democrats are trying to turn new immigrants into wards of the state — and with some success! — so they will be permanent Democratic voters. Rich Republicans and their handmaidens in Washington are trying to turn immigrants into a permanent servant class.

In an astonishing exchange on Fox News last weekend, Dan Henninger of The Wall Street Journal responded to Heather MacDonald's point that Hispanics in this country have a 50 percent illegitimacy rate, the highest teen pregnancy rate of any group and the highest high school drop-out rate of any group, by asking: "Why don't we feel we are under cultural assault in New York City? You have no sense of this at all here."

You also have no sense of the existence of a middle class in New York City. The rich have hidden the evidence, transplanting all but the massively wealthy to the suburbs. Manhattan is white and getting whiter, while the boroughs are noticeably less white and more dysfunctional.

What evidence is there for the proposition that American culture will leap like a tenacious form of tuberculosis to today's immigrants? Americans display no evident desire to defend their culture, much less transmit it, and immigrants show no evident desire to adopt it.

To the contrary, immigrants are replacing American culture with Latin American culture. Their apparent constant need to demonstrate is just one example.

As Mac Johnson wrote in Human Events last year, these immigrant protests represent "the colonization of America by the Latin style of politics." He listed just some of the demonstrations drawing thousands — sometimes hundreds of thousands — of protesters over the last few years in Mexico alone. Among the targets of the protests were a new regional trade pact, plans to allow private investment in the state-owned electricity industry, energy and tax reforms, and support for the mayor of Mexico City.

In 1993 — long before 9/11, before the USS Cole bombing, before the bombing of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania — the eminent Harvard political scientist Samuel P. Huntington predicted that the greatest threat to Western civilization would come from a clash of civilizations, noting with particular concern the "bloody borders" of the Muslim world.

So it ought to be of some interest that Huntington is now predicting, in his book "Who Are We: The Challenges to America's National Identity," that America cannot survive the cultural onslaught from Latin America.

American Hispanics responded to Huntington's book with a flurry of scholarly papers and academic debates to counter his thesis that Mexicans were not assimilating.
Just kidding! They called for national protests against Huntington, his publisher and Harvard University.

 

[shagdrum]

"Looks like Ann agrees with me...what more could I ask?"
-Fossten

what more could u ask....
from Mrs. Coulter....
.....A extremely intelligent, sexy Blonde......
If u can't figure that one out, I can't help u.

 

[D Hook]

Here's another reason why Bush isn't willing to close the borders:

On last night's program, Glenn Beck alluded to something he and his producers are investigating called SPP (Security and Prosperity Partnership) that, according to him, is the reason Bush is so adamant about his immigration idea and not so keen on taking actions to tighten border security. He (Beck) says the goal is to "create another EU", with a common currency, etc between the US, Canada and Mexico.

Here are some links, both pro and con, that explain the topic. In addition, Beck will be doing a special program on the topic in the near future.

I found it interesting and hopefully this is not a repost. The agreement was made in 2005 so there's a good chance it's been discussed already but on the off chance it hasn't, it may help explain the immigration reform bill that seems to be gathering steam towards passage in the senate.


Pro:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...lnk&cd=10&gl=us


Con:
http://stopspp.com/stopspp/


You can find other sources by googling "SPP".

 

[skenneyjr]

fill the rio with blood thirsty fish, nobody will cross into here
and the ones that leave must pay us back in full

 

[TheDude]

"Looks like Ann agrees with me...what more could I ask?"
-Fossten

what more could u ask....
from Mrs. Coulter....
.....A extremely intelligent, sexy Blonde......
If u can't figure that one out, I can't help u.

What else? I'd want a woman sans Adam's Apple; that's just me though... maybe I'm just superficial.

She sure did turn on G.W. quick though...

 

[Calabrio]

Is superficial the new code word for gay?