Idler pulley question for Electric fan swap

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00LincLS

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So I’m preparing to do the electric fan swap on my 00 V8. I’ve read in a few guides that you need the K061000 serpentine belt and you need to switch the unflanged pulley with a grooved one that fits the belt. I’ve looked at the diagram of the belt set up. Can anyone help me understand...

1. If the hydraulic system is going to be completely removed, why are we replacing the #2 pulley (unflanged) and not the #1 pulley (Hydraulic System)

2. What’s the purpose of changing the serpentine belt during the swap process?

Ive never done this swap and any information to help me understand is greatly appreciated.

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Here's what the gen II belt routing looks like.
s6x~us~en~file=n0009888.gif~gen~ref.gif

1 19A216 Belt idler pulley — unflanged
2 10A352 Generator pulley
3 8509 Coolant pump pulley
4 6B209 Accessory drive belt tensioner
5 3D673 Power steering pump pulley
6 19D748 A/C clutch pulley
7 6316 Crankshaft vibration damper

I would think that you are trying to get the gen I with the fan pump removed to route like the gen II that never had it.
 
joegr said:
Here's what the gen II belt routing looks like.
View attachment 828575906
1 19A216 Belt idler pulley — unflanged
2 10A352 Generator pulley
3 8509 Coolant pump pulley
4 6B209 Accessory drive belt tensioner
5 3D673 Power steering pump pulley
6 19D748 A/C clutch pulley
7 6316 Crankshaft vibration damper

I would think that you are trying to get the gen I with the fan pump removed to route like the gen II that never had it.
Click to expand...
Why would I need to make the setup like a Gen 2 when some of the locations of the pullers are different sizes and in different locations?
 
00LincLS said:
Why would I need to make the setup like a Gen 2 when some of the locations of the pullers are different sizes and in different locations?
Click to expand...

All of the accessory pulleys should be the same size and the same location. The tensioner and idler pulleys change (size and type, not location), as well as the elimination of the hydraulic fan pump and one idler pulley.

I was just saying that it is a setup that works for your engine with all the accessories that you need to drive, and without the hydraulic fan pump. I'm sure there are other ways to do it too. I will stay out of it then.
 
2: serp belt size change
when you take out the hydraulic pump, you shorten the total length of the belt route. It's more than what the tensioner can take up, so choosing a shorter belt lets the tensioner work as designed

1: changing the idler
looking at the gen 2 diagram, you can see the alternator is mounted higher than gen 1. If you run the belt the same exact way, the belt will hit Idler #8 on its way from Water Pump #3 to Alternator #9. By changing the #2 Idler to a ribbed pulley and running the belt on the outiside of the idler, the belt now clears #8. I was given the p/n Gates 36327 for the replacement idler. Looks right, bought, haven't done the conversion yet

While it's possible to replace the Hydraulic pump pulley with an idler, its a cost-prohibitive option. You need to fabricate a mount for it and find a pulley to match. Swapping the existing pulley is easier, cheaper, and one less part to worry about. You can see the problem the V6 crowd has with the conversion in the above link
 
FDR said:
2: serp belt size change
when you take out the hydraulic pump, you shorten the total length of the belt route. It's more than what the tensioner can take up, so choosing a shorter belt lets the tensioner work as designed

1: changing the idler
looking at the gen 2 diagram, you can see the alternator is mounted higher than gen 1. If you run the belt the same exact way, the belt will hit Idler #8 on its way from Water Pump #3 to Alternator #9. By changing the #2 Idler to a ribbed pulley and running the belt on the outiside of the idler, the belt now clears #8. I was given the p/n Gates 36327 for the replacement idler. Looks right, bought, haven't done the conversion yet

While it's possible to replace the Hydraulic pump pulley with an idler, its a cost-prohibitive option. You need to fabricate a mount for it and find a pulley to match. Swapping the existing pulley is easier, cheaper, and one less part to worry about. You can see the problem the V6 crowd has with the conversion in the above link
Click to expand...
Alright so if I’m understanding you correctly by changing the #2 (unflanged) pulley to a ribbed pulley and changing the belt to a ribbed belt (6 ribbed), while changing how the belt is running (from a Gen 1 V8 to a Gen 2 V8 setup) all I’d have to do is replace the pulley and there’d be no need for any additional parts. Just changing the pulley, belt, and direction of the belt?
 
Direction of belt should not change. That is determined by the rotation of the crankshaft.

While I haven't had to deal with this since I have a Gen 2... the setup everyone is suggesting... should allow you to delete the hydraulic pump.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Direction of belt should not change. That is determined by the rotation of the crankshaft.

While I haven't had to deal with this since I have a Gen 2... the setup everyone is suggesting... should allow you to delete the hydraulic pump.
Click to expand...
I’m just trying to get a better understanding of all of this so excuse me if I’m asking a lot of questions. It sounds like everyone who has done this has replaced the #2 pulley with a ribbed pulley and the current belt with a ridged/ribbed belt (K061000).
Now from what it sounds the belt needs to run like in the Gen 2 diagram. When I look at both diagrams the pulleys don’t look the same and there seems to be an extra belt or something in the Gen 2 diagram that’s not there in the Gen 1.
Am I over thinking this looking at both the diagrams?
Since this will be my first conversation I don’t want to mess anything up and there isn’t a complete write up on this conversation anywhere. Since when it comes to the belt and pulley this part is left out.
 
No problem with asking questions. I think what is confusing you... is looking at both belt diagrams.

EDITED... MORE THAN ONCE

Ignore the Gen 2 diagram. With the pump delete, the belt path will not match the Gen 2 diagram.

From my understanding, (not owning a Gen 1), the idea is to remove the pump and convert the idler pulley #2 from external smooth... to external ribbed... and run the belt OVER idler #2 instead of under. Both belts are ribbed...so that is a moot point. You just use a shorter belt, (no part# provided). You won't get the belt to travel the same path as the Gen 2.

Going by what FDR said...

Basically (looking only at the Gen 1 diagram).... you remove the Hyd pump... change pulley #2 to external ribbed, (using the pulley part # FDR provided) ... and run the belt over the top of #2 pulley... instead of under

Everything else routes and runs the same in the Gen 1 diagram... just with no hydraulic pump installed.

I'm gonna stop before I get cross eyed.
 
Last edited:
00LincLS said:
...there seems to be an extra belt or something in the Gen 2 diagram that’s not there in the Gen 1...
Click to expand...

That's just the way they drew the diagram. That's not a belt, that's an illustration of the tensioner arm.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
No problem with asking questions. I think what is confusing you... is looking at both belt diagrams.

EDITED... MORE THAN ONCE

Ignore the Gen 2 diagram. With the pump delete, the belt path will not match the Gen 2 diagram.

From my understanding, (not owning a Gen 1), the idea is to remove the pump and convert the idler pulley #2 from external smooth... to external ribbed... and run the belt OVER idler #2 instead of under. Both belts are ribbed...so that is a moot point. You just use a shorter belt, (no part# provided). You won't get the belt to travel the same path as the Gen 2.

Going by what FDR said...

Basically (looking only at the Gen 1 diagram).... you remove the Hyd pump... change pulley #2 to external ribbed, (using the pulley part # FDR provided) ... and run the belt over the top of #2 pulley... instead of under

Everything else routes and runs the same in the Gen 1 diagram... just with no hydraulic pump installed.

I'm gonna stop before I get cross eyed.
Click to expand...
Sounds like I was really over thinking this. So once the hydraulic system is out

1. Can I completely remove the #1 pulley (hydraulic fan pump pulley)?

If so, then the rest would go exactly as you said. Replace the #2 pulley with a ribbed pulley. Obviously the shorter belt (which will be p/n K061000). Then run the belt (rigges down) over the top of the new rigged pulley #2 and route the rest exactly as it was.
 
You would remove the whole hydraulic pump... not just the pump pulley.

If you look closely at the Gen 1 diagram... and draw an imaginary line from pulley #2 (after replacing with larger external ribbed pulley), to pulley #9, (the alternator)... it looks like the pump shaft might be in the way of the belt if you don't remove the pump completey.

Remember... this is supposed to be a "pump delete"... not a pulley delete.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
You would remove the whole hydraulic pump... not just the pump pulley.

If you look closely at the Gen 1 diagram... and draw an imaginary line from pulley #2 (after replacing with larger external ribbed pulley), to pulley #9, (the alternator)... it looks like the pump shaft might be in the way of the belt if you don't remove the pump completey.

Remember... this is supposed to be a "pump delete"... not a pulley delete.
Click to expand...
The plan is to completely remove the whole hydraulic system and replace it with an electric fan. By the end of this I don’t want anything in it that had to do with the hydraulic system. That’s one of the reasons why I was asking about removing pulley #1 and all the questions about the rigged pulley for #2.
 
Well if you are completely removing the pump... then the pulley will come with it. So pulley #1 will be gone at that point.

You are making this harder than it has to be... or is...
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Well if you are completely removing the pump... then the pulley will come with it. So pulley #1 will be gone at that point.

You are making this harder than it has to be... or is...
Click to expand...
Not making it harder was just getting clarification. Since I’m removing the hydraulic system I’m not trying to mess anything up and all the write ups for Gen 1s leave this part out.
Since the whole hydraulic system is coming out then the pulley will come out with it. Replace the #2 pulley with a ribbed pulley and loop the belt over the new #2 pulley. The rest is exactly as the diagram shows and that should be it. Correct?
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Not exactly. With pulley #1 gone... the belt will go directly from pulley #2... to pulley #9. Or from pulley #9 to pulley #2 ... depending on how you look at it. (shrug)
Click to expand...
Yeah under the #9 pulley and over the new #2 ribbed pulley then the rest stays the same?
 
You can use a ribbed pulley if you can find one. I just kept the stock flat pulley and ran the belt over it. Yeah, ribbed side of the belt running on a smooth pulley. It's been like that for ..... 11 years? now with no problems at all. Sure, it's not ideal, but apparently it doesn't really matter.
 
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