IMRC issue from past threads and current unsolved

ripped camel

ripped camel

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So in my last shot at trying to fix this car before I decide to dump it off I have been doing exhaustive research about IMRC's because I constantly get the P1519 code (IMRC stuck open bank 1).

Jamie cleaned them by hand, and you can see them activating properly at 3500rpms...Jamie verified that too.

The car just has such little power most of the time and it idles rough. I've replaced everything I can possibly think of and it still isn't driving right.

It seems when going back to really old threads a good amount of people had the same issue, took the same steps, and ended up with no solution. So in essence this seems like it is going to be a major issue for more of these cars as they get older. Being that there still is no solution to the older threads, nor mine, I figured I'd post it up in hopes we can finally alleviate it so others down the line don't have to go through such a nightmare.

Here's some of the older threads I'm speaking of...

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=11269&highlight=imrc

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=16925&highlight=leaking+intake+manifold

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=26560&highlight=leaking+intake+manifold

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=1243&highlight=leaking+intake+manifold

It's really sad because my wife has put so much money into making this car work and she is trying to support our family while I go to school. If this car would work right it would be great but she just can't take much more of this. She will be mighty pissed at me if I have to sell this because we can't find the problem after putting so much money into it.
 
Have you done a compression check on that thing ? IAC is brand new? Spark plugs are gapped properly and all getting fire? Have you checked your fuel pressure, are all injectors new and unclogged?...there's only 3 systems that make an engine run, fuel air and fire...if you KNOW the IMRCs are not actually sticking, and you're getting a code, have you ever considered maybe you have bad electronics?
 
Sapperfire said:
Have you done a compression check on that thing ? IAC is brand new? Spark plugs are gapped properly and all getting fire? Have you checked your fuel pressure, are all injectors new and unclogged?...there's only 3 systems that make an engine run, fuel air and fire...if you KNOW the IMRCs are not actually sticking, and you're getting a code, have you ever considered maybe you have bad electronics?
Click to expand...

Electronics was actually my first thought. So I got a new ECU, OEM MAF, OEM O2's, TPS, cleaned the IAC and tried two different used ones both cleaned, and bought one new OEM coil to switch around. None of that fixed this issue...originally I thought it did at times but the problem just came back.

Plugs are brand new Motorcraft platinums gapped right and less than 3000miles on them.

Brand new SVT 255lph fuel pump and motorcraft fuel filter.

Jamie swapped the head and did head gasket on the ds, oil pan gasket and oil filter adapter gasket.

New battery, and new alternator.

All fluids changed and run Lucas fuel cleaner in my engine once a month + I always use 93 octane gas.

I'm wondering if it's a gasket leak with the intake, but according to every thread I read with the same problem (and I'm still reading them now as we speak) none of them found a leak with the conventional spray methods.

Sean Hyland mentions in the "How to build max performance 4.6 engine" book that when removing the IMRC's always change the gasket because they tend to leak. I'm thinking of trying that since jamie did remove them, but others on here in past threads said it was a metal gasket and they are reusable and not needing to be changed.

I have not done a compression check however if compression was off would it be super fast some days, and slower than corollas the next? <-- not sarcasm I'm seriously not sure how loss in compression would feel.
 
I read somewhere that vacuum keeps the IMRC closed and the spring keeps it open above 3500 rpms. So if it's stuck open wouldn't that mean there's not enough vacuum to close it? wouldn't that mean it's a gasket leak or cracked manifold?

Btw this issue has been around for waaay longer than the valve cover debacle so it's unrelated to that.
 
There's no vacuum involved in your IMRC's. Springs close them and the control box, via cables, opens them.

And, on a stock Gen 2, the IMRC's open/close @ 3,000 RPM's.
 
It really sounds like you've got an intermittent problem with either the IMRC control box or the wiring/connections between it and the PCM.

Did you ever change the IMRC control box? Have you made sure that the connection to the IMRC control box is OK?
 
ripped camel said:
So does that rule out gasket leak DLF?

I found this thread too where more recent members were helping a guy with the same problem, they even drove his car and noticed the same things my car is doing....again there was no solution posted.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=44926&highlight=leaking+intake+manifold
Click to expand...

No, a gasket leak can cause the car to run :q:q:q:qty, but it can't affect the IMRC's.

Have you checked the intake vacuum @ idle to see if you've got a leak?
 
I had a new-used box I was going to have Jamie install but he revved the car above 3000rpms and showed me the cables both pull like they are supposed to when they hit that RPM so that means the box is working right.

I don't know how to check the connections to the box (or what to look for).

How do I check the intake vacuum? Is that where I am supposed to spray it with carb cleaner? If so I read with intake leaks the RPM's would drop not raise if a leak was sprayed is that correct?

I have replaced the Vacuum line going from the manifold to the PCV valve if that matters.
 
ripped camel said:
I had a new-used box I was going to have Jamie install but he revved the car above 3000rpms and showed me the cables both pull like they are supposed to when they hit that RPM so that means the box is working right.

I don't know how to check the connections to the box (or what to look for).

How do I check the intake vacuum? Is that where I am supposed to spray it with carb cleaner? If so I read with intake leaks the RPM's would drop not raise if a leak was sprayed is that correct?

I have replaced the Vacuum line going from the manifold to the PCV valve if that matters.
Click to expand...

That means that the box worked that time, but if you're still getting a code, it may not be working all of the time.

Just make sure that the connector to the box is in all the way tight. Then clear the code and see if it comes back.

Just hook up a vacuum gauge to the line going to the FPR and see what it reads at idle. It should be fairly steady and between 15/20 inches.

FWIW, if one IMRC was sticking open, that really shouldn't cause a huge loss of power anyway, it might cause a slightly rough idle, but that's about it.

Neither would a small vacuum leak (a huge one might).

Now, if the IMRC's don't open @ 3,000 RPM's, that you could feel.

I suspect the IMRC control box, or the wiring to it, from what you're describing.
 
Where would I hook the gauge on the fuel pressure regulator?

Yeah the power loss is SUPER noticeable! What's funny is the car will take forever to shift to second because it's going so damn slow, but when it finally does it will slightly kick out sideways and recover much of the lost power.

I've already taken it to a few shops and all of them said the rough idle is very noticeable and something is definitely wrong. They just have no clue what.

I'm going to try the vacuum test you said once I figure out how to do it.
 
Honestly, I would install the new/used box and see if the problem continues. Those boxes must have some type of position sensor for each side. The box may be working physically, but the position sensor may be intermittent/inop. Plus, I don't know how accurate the position sensor is. My 96 has 2 prox switches, which combine into 1 return signal. It is my guess, that each switch shows a different voltage which will change the final return voltage when either one is faulty. When I had my code 1519, I bought a new passenger bank 1 control. It did nothing. The drivers side had the big vacuum leak and the switch was inop. You must have 2 position sensors inside the box, 1 for each cable.
 
...doesn't look as thou you
got answered...so I will...never reuse a gasket, the only type i will attempt to reuse are the tin gaskets for exhaust and some intakes
 
This is a good thread Ripped, I am sure you will get some better answers this way. MAYBE when I move down there, which will be later this afternoon, I could maybe help take a look at your car, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. A couple questions, does the car do this hot or cold, both? And I don't see how a sticking IMRC, either open or closed would cause a rough idle? I would assume the engine idle and run smooth but lack power. All the air in the intake is metered, assuming there is no vacuum leaks. I'm going to stick to my guns and say that a stuck open/closed IMRC would not cause the engine to run rough, it will just cut down engine power due to less optimal air flow velocity and volume.
 
Psychostang said:
Honestly, I would install the new/used box and see if the problem continues. Those boxes must have some type of position sensor for each side. The box may be working physically, but the position sensor may be intermittent/inop. Plus, I don't know how accurate the position sensor is. My 96 has 2 prox switches, which combine into 1 return signal. It is my guess, that each switch shows a different voltage which will change the final return voltage when either one is faulty. When I had my code 1519, I bought a new passenger bank 1 control. It did nothing. The drivers side had the big vacuum leak and the switch was inop. You must have 2 position sensors inside the box, 1 for each cable.
Click to expand...

That would suck because I already sold the other box.

Sapperfire said:
...doesn't look as thou you
got answered...so I will...never reuse a gasket, the only type i will attempt to reuse are the tin gaskets for exhaust and some intakes
Click to expand...

Good to know. Sean Hyland mentioned that too, and if I remember correctly XLR said the 1519 code often times could be from a intake gasket leak.

DieselDan said:
This is a good thread Ripped, I am sure you will get some better answers this way. MAYBE when I move down there, which will be later this afternoon, I could maybe help take a look at your car, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. A couple questions, does the car do this hot or cold, both? And I don't see how a sticking IMRC, either open or closed would cause a rough idle? I would assume the engine idle and run smooth but lack power. All the air in the intake is metered, assuming there is no vacuum leaks. I'm going to stick to my guns and say that a stuck open/closed IMRC would not cause the engine to run rough, it will just cut down engine power due to less optimal air flow velocity and volume.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah that would be cool....you'll learn by meeting me in person I'm not the freak I'm portrayed as on here :D

Good luck with the move. If you need any help moving stuff in your place let me know.

As for the IMRC causing the rough idle perhaps that's not the case. I'm associating the two because I got the rough idle and poor acceleration both when that code starting showing its face. Also many of the others that had the code in past threads complained of both poor acceleration and rough idle so I'm thinking since others had the same issues with the same code they are related somehow.

As XLR may have said if it is a intake gasket leak that would cause rough idle right?

It does it both hot or cold, however it does it less when it's cold.
 
"Thanks. Yeah that would be cool....you'll learn by meeting me in person I'm not the freak I'm portrayed as on here"

is this open for argument? j/j lol!
derek i have an imrc control box but its on ebay right now, it ends tonight, i have no clue if it has bids or not but it has many miles on it though!
 
BAD97LSC said:
"Thanks. Yeah that would be cool....you'll learn by meeting me in person I'm not the freak I'm portrayed as on here"

is this open for argument? j/j lol!
derek i have an imrc control box but its on ebay right now, it ends tonight, i have no clue if it has bids or not but it has many miles on it though!
Click to expand...

What's your ebay name again?
 
Intake gasket is your idle issue, I am 90% sure on this.

The IMRC issue is a bad box or more likely a bad connection or broken wire going to it OR bad actuator cables. If the cable has a cracked jacket then water gets in there and it corrodes and it sticks. The actuator isnt that strongand may not be able to overcome the sticking sometimes.
 
his cables are for sure not sticking they work fine i didnt check it one time, we revved the car multiple times and the cablces pull freely on the runners, if they arent working everytime it has to be electrical or inside the box. we took a box apart to see what it was made up of i couldnt believe its only run by a 540 type RC car motor and a few gears and a pc board, thats it. its deffinetly not the cables on his imrc box. derek its mopar68gtx, i think its the only one on ebay it should be easy to spot!
 
Is Felpro fine for the intake gaskets or should I opt for oem? I know Felpro is good for some gaskets, I wasn't sure on all though.
 
Ford OEM gaskets at Ford dealer for lower plenum: $71
Felpro from ANYWHERE else: $17

:eek:


And a Mabuchi 540 will fail after a few years and even on RC cars they would do intermitant stuff like that. Box sounds more like it now.
 
My buddy at advanceautoparts looked at it while I was there and said he heard a MAJOR intake leak. So I bought carb cleaner, sprayed around it and the thing almost stalled out.

So it definitely has an intake manifold gasket leak. Whether that will fix any or all of the symptoms I won't know until I tackle that but atleast it's one thing found as a definitive problem.

I'm very worried about tackling it though because it looks as though I would need to disconnect the fuel rails etc to get it off. After seeing nolimit and others have issues with toying with the fuel, I'm very worried about doing it.

Going to special order the gasket today from Advance. I'll post up what the findings are after it is installed. Man if this fixes it I will be so freaking excited!

Thanks for all of the technical replies, this has been an awesome thread and I appreciate every post on it.
 
Hey man, don't tackle this one yourself take it someplace, show them what you do to make it stall out and let them deal with it!

It will be awesome when you can just drive this thing and enjoy it
 
brentalan said:
Hey man, don't tackle this one yourself take it someplace, show them what you do to make it stall out and let them deal with it!

It will be awesome when you can just drive this thing and enjoy it
Click to expand...

You sir are correct :) It definitely will be awesome :D

98lincmk7lsc said:
For your sake, I hope that's what's causing it, and that it fixes everything!

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I sure hope so too ;) How you enjoying those headers? :D
 
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