Iran's Ahmadinejad May Have 'Cataclysmic Events' In Mind For August 22

[MediumD]

Islam is, by and large, a death cult, and Calabrio (and others here) can prove it. Regardless, you should challenge him to back up his statement instead of attacking him personally, which reduces your own credibility. Moreover, getting personal with attacks that you can't prove is not acceptable on this forum.

Assuming I were a Muslim, would those 'death cult' remarks not be considered personal attacks? I know a lot of people who take their religion very seriously.

Racist isn't exactly a personal attack if it is a fact. The definition of racism is: "Discrimination or prejudice based on race" (source: Dictionary.com.) It's probably the closest term we have to describe someone who says that an entire religion is bad (and thus saying that they and theirs is better.)

I consider those people the exception.

Well, at least you recognize that they exist.

No, I don't hate every Muslim. I just have come to recognize that they are members of a destructive Death Cult that is destabilizing the world.

And like I said, every organized religion is or has in it's history been, exactly what you're describing. They all have, or at least have had in their history, times where they did things that you're currently condeming Islam for. There is nothing inherantly wrong with the Islam that hundreds of millions of people who you call "exceptions" practice.

Seeing how it's 7:16, I have to leave. PEACE.

 

[Calabrio]

Assuming I were a Muslim, would those 'death cult' remarks not be considered personal attacks? I know a lot of people who take their religion very seriously.

And I don't care. It's time to call a spade a spade. This over-sensitive, politically correct attempt to tip-toe around the truth does nothing productive and it leaves us all vulnerable and unable to fight a war.

Racist isn't exactly a personal attack if it is a fact. The definition of racism is: "Discrimination or prejudice based on race" (source: Dictionary.com.) It's probably the closest term we have to describe someone who says that an entire religion is bad (and thus saying that they and theirs is better.)

A philosophy is not a race. Argument over.
Islam isn't a race, it's a believe system.
And it's flawed and dangerous.

Well, at least you recognize that they exist.

Yeah, unfortunately you have to look pretty darn hard because if they're out their, they tend to be sitting quietly on their hands.

And like I said, every organized religion is or has in it's history been, exactly what you're describing. They all have, or at least have had in their history, times where they did things that you're currently condeming Islam for.

NO. You are incorrect. While many religions have had to go through a reform period do to the corruption of man, there is a huge underlying difference with Islam.

THE TEACHINGS AND PHILOSPHY ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

The corrupt periods in Christianity, for example, took place contrary to the teachings of Christ. They were a corruption of the bible and what it contains. It was inconsistant with the teaching.

This is not the case with Islam. It is a religion founded by a violent horrible man. It was spread at the tip of sword (violently). And it does not teach tolerance or peace. It specifically teaches that non-muslims are infidels. They they can be killed or used as cattle.

And more importantly, most people don't realize this, but we've been at war with Islam since the inception of this country. The Barbary Pirates were Islamic pirates who would hijack and kidnap ships during at the turn of the 18th century, taking non-muslims slave. They would then either try to ransom them back, force them into slavery, extort tribute from other governments, or leaving these innocent people in deplorable conditions where they'd inevitably die. Tens of thousands of Americans were taken into slavery.

These events were one of the first foreign policy crisises the America faced following the civil war, and it was a task left to Thomas Jefferson to deal with. And the entire thing was justified by the Koran.

THIS WAS 200 YEARS AGO!

There is nothing inherantly wrong with the Islam that hundreds of millions of people who you call "exceptions" practice.

And many people, infact the majority within Islam, would say that those people are not practicing it correctly, in accordance with the Koran.

Seeing how it's 7:16, I have to leave. PEACE.

I'm sure you'll be compelled to respond tonight.

 

[MediumD]

This is not the case with Islam. It is a religion founded by a violent horrible man. It was spread at the tip of sword (violently). And it does not teach tolerance or peace. It specifically teaches that non-muslims are infidels. They they can be killed or used as cattle.

And more importantly, most people don't realize this, but we've been at war with Islam since the inception of this country. The Barbary Pirates were Islamic pirates who would hijack and kidnap ships during at the turn of the 18th century, taking non-muslims slave. They would then either try to ransom them back, force them into slavery, extort tribute from other governments, or leaving these innocent people in deplorable conditions where they'd inevitably die. Tens of thousands of Americans were taken into slavery.

These events were one of the first foreign policy crisises the America faced following the civil war, and it was a task left to Thomas Jefferson to deal with. And the entire thing was justified by the Koran.

The Barbary pirates taking slaves, huh. Kind of like how we were taking slaves from a different part of that continent at the same time? And how many of the Americans at the time used the bible as a way to defend and justify slavery?

Here's a quote you might enjoy:

The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam.

These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.

The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.

 

[Calabrio]

The Barbary pirates taking slaves, huh. Kind of like how we were taking slaves from a different part of that continent at the same time? And how many of the Americans at the time used the bible as a way to defend and justify slavery?

[Edited for personal attack]

First of all, it's absolutely nothing like the African slave trade. And the slaves that were taken through history weren't taken by Ameican pirates. They were sold by other Africans and most of the slaves were taken during tribal wars and sold by other African tribes..

Second, the U.S. had made the importation of any slaves illegal by 1807. And most states had made slavery illegal long before that. And slavery was recognized as being wrong since the founding of the country by most people, but in order to keep the Southern states, a compromise was made, and that unfortunate compromise was slavery.

Third, since they don't teach history any more, it was the Christian abolitionists who fought the hardest to bring an end to Southern slavery.

And finally, what the hell does your point have to do with ANYTHING regarding this conversation? [Edited]

Here's a quote you might enjoy:

And I can provide you scores and scores of quotes from the Koran, within their context, that demonstrate otherwise.

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.
Q 9:73

Sura 4-89: “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): but take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks…”

Sura 47-4: “When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”


The Koran is full of that stuff. And if you want to read something really horrifying, read about the life of Mohammed and his rain of terror while alive.

So, did you have a point, or did you just respond to look uninformed?

 

[MediumD]

It boils down to this. Every religion has it's douchebags and it's good people. Every religion has teaching that are good for society and bad for society, teachings that are warlike and those that promote peace. And of course people are constantly changing how they interpret those teachings in the first place. You fail to see that, and condemn Islam.

But for a moment, I will assume you're right, and Islam is bad. What do you think we should do about it?

 

[Calabrio]

It boils down to this. Every religion has it's douchebags and it's good people. Every religion has teaching that are good for society and bad for society, teachings that are warlike and those that promote peace. And of course people are constantly changing how they interpret those teachings in the first place. You fail to see that, and condemn Islam.

No, that's is not what it boils down to.

It's undeniable that people can take anything and corrupt it. Or they can do things for selfish reasons under the guise it is motivated by a higher religious conviction. But you fail to see the distinctions between Islam and any other major world religion. And the sooner people like you realize it, the better we'll all be.

Islam shouldn't be called a religion. It is a death cult. It treats it's women like subhumans. It sanctions suicide bombings and the deliberate murder of innocent people for no other reason than they don't worship Mohammed. Everything about it runs counter to the notion of civilization.

Virtually every conflict in the world right now is the direct result of Islamic aggression and violence, including the genocide of Christians in the Sudan and they hope to engage in a genocide of the Jews in Israel.

This is a society that embraces death. It's been often said we'll have peace in the Middle East only when the Muslims love their children more than they love death.

Do you know ANYTHING about the religion? Do you know anything about the Mythology surrounding the founder? Mohammed was a warrior. A rapist. A killer. And a pedophile. Quite a striking contrast from Buddah, Jesus, or Moses.

But for a moment, I will assume you're right, and Islam is bad. What do you think we should do about it?

Can you tell me anything good about Islam? Can you tell me of any modern enlightened culture that is predominantly Muslim? Can you tell me any part of the world with a dominant Islamic population that is living peacefully?

Can you do anything to refute anything I've said? The best argument you've come up with is "well, FIVE HUNDRED years ago, Catholics were pretty bad too..." without even elaborating.

The Islamo-fascist trend in Islam isn't the deviation. That's the nature of the religion. Because you know of some Americanized Muslims who happen to enjoy color television and not having to worry about their daughters enduring female circumscion or being stoned to death if they get raped doesn't mean that they are true representatives of what the religion stands for.

Frankly, the entire idea that Islam could go through a reformation like the Catholic church did sounds virtually impossible, given the fundamental nature of the religion.

And I'm still amazed and shocked that you were angered upon learning that tens of thousands of American citizens were taken captive by the Islamic Barbary Coast pirates where they were almost all killed, either through inhumane treatment in a prison or while doing slave labor in Africa.

What needs to be done. We need to stop pretending it is a peaceful religion. We need to recognize the threat. We need to stop fighting a PC war, attempting to avoid offending our enemy. And we need to address it aggressively, through the use of force if necessary. Waiting only means they'll be better armed and wealthier, feeding off the $77/barrel oil we're buying.

 

[MediumD]

That IS what it boils down to, all organized religions have their undesirable parts (and IMO it's time for humanity to move away from organized religion completely.)

You think Muslims are subhuman. You want everybody else to think the way you do. Most Americans don't agree with you, even your beloved far right wing president doesn't. Neither does anyone with sense enough to realize that the movement of fundamentalist Islam is the problem, but it is neither a majority of Muslims nor a reason to persecute other Muslims.

 

[Calabrio]

That IS what it boils down to, all organized religions have their undesirable parts (and IMO it's time for humanity to move away from organized religion completely.)

NO, it doesn't boil down to that at all. Religion is fine, Islam has horrible flaws going back to inception, when it was founded by a blood thirsty predator interested in being worshiped. The entire natures, foundations, origins, histories, and philosophies surrounding ALL of the other mainstream religions is in stark contrast to Islam. Islam is very different.

All the major conflicts in the world right now are related to Islam.....I've been through this repeatedly. You don't want to acknowledge anything, instead you want to indict all religion. You seem to think that just because you have an opinion, there is no further need to defend it, support it, or even explain it.

And while we've been having this discussion, a plan by muslims to blow up at least a half dozen Airliners has discovered.

You think Muslims are subhuman. You want everybody else to think the way you do.

You presume an awful.

Most Americans don't agree with you, even your beloved far right wing president doesn't. Neither does anyone with sense enough to realize that the movement of fundamentalist Islam is the problem, but it is neither a majority of Muslims nor a reason to persecute other Muslims.

I've given you numerous opportunities to support your position. You won't.
I've repeatedly waited for you to dispute me on any points. You can't.

You say Islam is a religion of peace. Tell me a place in the world with an Islamic government that is living peacefully. Tell me an Islamic state that has a respectable standard of living. Tell me of one that doesn't treat women like sub-humans. Tell me a place with a dominant Muslim majority that demonstrates tolerance of other religions.

Since you're flashing the insight of someone who took a world studies course in high school or as a liberal arts requirement in a college once, and now you think you're an expert with an opinion that should be respected and go unchallenged. Why don't you tell us, what do you think should be done regarding this threat facing the world.

Define it, identify it, and figure out a way to address it. How do we handle it.

Syria, Iran, and the Palestinians have formally said they desire to destroy Israel. Is this peaceful? Is this the tolerance you so foolishly defend? Would you have defended the Nazi's so vigorously?

And a final point- you keep condemning all religion, ignorantly thinking that the world would be better if a giant moral void existed. Why don't you tell that to the tens of millions of people the Godless communist killed through the 20th century.

 

[TheDude]

I think you would be deeply concerned to learn just how "radical" mainstream Islam is, and how quickly it could become it.


He's not a king. He's not even really a dictator. He's not the most powerful person in that country. It's a theocractic system.

Hussein was a secular guy and your argument would apply there, this is not the case with Ahmadinejad.


Anything is possible.
But I wouldn't want to bet my life or your life on it. Or the existance of Israel.


We all need to acknowledge that these people have declared war on us, we just have not recognized it yet. By giving them the benefit of the doubt, by rationalizing their motivations using Western reason, and by trying to define the threat in the most politically correct terms we can think of, we harm ourself. We engage in infighting while guys like Ahmadinejad and Iran build and buy nuclear weapons rich on $77/barrel oil, preparing to defeat us.

Iran is causing the problems in Iraq. Iran is causing the problems in Syria. Iran is causing the problems in Lebanon. Iran is causing the problems in Europe. And Iran will probably be responsible for causing problems domestically here in time too.

This is another reason why it's so frustrating to here partisan democrats complaining that "Bush isn't focusing enough on capturing Bin Laden." When you hear that, you KNOW the person has no idea what they are talking about. Bin Laden is a figure head, he was a fundraising man. It'd be nice to catch him, but he's NOT the head of the snake. The war on terror is NOT just a war with Al-Queda. It is a war with Islam. If it makes you feel better I can say "Islamo-fascists" but, frankly, it's one in the same.

Islam is a death cult. It has always been a death cult and it continues to be. It is not peaceful. It has never been peaceful. It is the cause of virtually every conflict taking place in the world right now. Virtually everywhere you find an Islamic majority, you also find a genocide or civil war.

We'd all better get a war footing very,very fast.

You're right, I do forget that the Ayatollahs are the ones in charge behind the scenes. Similar in the way the Popes called the shots during the end of the Roman empire.

 

[RRocket]

If you're going to engage in this kind of hate-rhetoric and name-calling, maybe you should go post somewhere else, like Huff 'N' Puff or DailyKos. You have no evidence with which to back up your attacks, and you're not even making a logical argument. Bad form.

YEA!! The only one who is allowed to do that is Fossten when it's directed towards me. Geez......

 

[TheDude]

YEA!! The only one who is allowed to do that is Fossten when it's directed towards me. Geez......

You should enact an 'eye for an eye' then, if someone cries about your counter measure, post their original rant and make them the fool.

 

[RRocket]

Nah...I said it many times that Fossten amuses me, and it's kinda funny when he goes on a name calling rant directed towards me. I feelas though I'm going through withdrawal as it's been a few days since he's called me anything...

 

[MediumD]

All I'm doing is trying to defend those Muslims who choose to live their lives in peace. You've admitted peaceful Muslims exist, but still all you do is try to lump them in with the fundamentalist whack jobs. What do you want me to do to support this? It seems pretty clear that's all that is going on in this thread.

And a final point- you keep condemning all religion, ignorantly thinking that the world would be better if a giant moral void existed. Why don't you tell that to the tens of millions of people the Godless communist killed through the 20th century.

Morals != religion.

 

[TheDude]

Morals != religion.

More like Religion = Morals, but I disagree.

 

[fossten]

I'll still be around some, fellas, but I start law school Monday, so I'll be too busy to do more than post occasionally.

Wish me luck.

 

[pepperman]

I'll still be around some, fellas, but I start law school Monday, so I'll be too busy to do more than post occasionally.

Wish me luck.

Good luck fossten.

 

[TheDude]

I'll still be around some, fellas, but I start law school Monday, so I'll be too busy to do more than post occasionally.

Wish me luck.

I plan on reading about you in the next Scopes trial...

Good luck!

 

[RRocket]

I'll still be around some, fellas, but I start law school Monday, so I'll be too busy to do more than post occasionally.

Wish me luck.

So who will annoy, harangue, harass, and call me names once you're gone?? Any volunteers??

What's worse...being a terrorist or a lawyer? Tough one...

At any rate...I won't wish you luck, because luck is for the unprepared. I hope you do well in your endeavours.....

 

[MonsterMark]

So who will annoy, harangue, harass, and call me names once you're gone?? Any volunteers??

Barry has always been pretty good at that. But you would have to switch sides and become a United States type conservative.