thaywood
Dedicated LVC Member
Ugh...:Bang:slam:sleep:
Lincoln won't be around much longer. I hate to see such a storied and historic nameplate slide so far down hill.
Is Lincoln Still A "Premium" Luxury Division?
- Thread starter thaywood
- Start date
Ugh...:Bang:slam:sleep:
Lincoln won't be around much longer. I hate to see such a storied and historic nameplate slide so far down hill.
chocolat1701
Dedicated LVC Member
Guys i think that we have it all wrong we all seem to forget what a American Luxery car used to be and what is being produced now. For some reason people think that we should follow the Germans but guys this is not Germany or Japan this is America. We don't have autobahns or twisty highways we have long straight highways that are made for cruising in my opinion is that the American automakers have lost their identity and need to return to what made us great. Big, powerful and comfortable ride with alot of technology. And the mks is just that the Mercedes s class and all of the Lexus are doing this the difference is that they have earned prestige while Lincoln still has not. We compare Cadillac but other than the Cts they are producing the same cars like the mks. Now do I think they should have v8 and rwd it would be nice but really its not necessary. Now I heard Lincoln is pumping 1billion dollars into Lincoln and update all their show rooms to Mb and BMW status and also now they are going to sell Lincoln globally. This auto company cannot be expected to hit a home run but they are doing a steady progressive rise and traying to get customers back by offering a different kind of luxery without the hefty price tag. I have a 04 ls v8 and they let me drive the mks eccoboost for 1 full day and yes the handling is not as precise but it was no way bad it was just different. The cabin on my ls is noisy I can hear and feel everything and in the mks is quiet really quiet and the ride is smooth the car makes you just want to cruise meanwhile the ls your looking for a sharp corner to hit. Not bad but just different. I would buy it if the price was right for me. So guys Lincoln is not dead they are not following the pack any more and carving their own identity but I must agree I has the Mk BLS BLS names
chocolat1701
Dedicated LVC Member
And if their is any argument that rwd is really needed for this class. What really pushed audi away from Volkswagen is their superb awd (Quattro) linup they offered something different than the others and now after all this time they are getting their just deserves.
chocolat1701
Dedicated LVC Member
Lincoln needs to continue to do what they are doing and refine it. Just the same way Lexus redefined smooth and quiet rides and bww/mb athletic and handling. American automakers cannot pretend to beet them at their own game we must play ours and perfect it. I used to live in new York city as if 4 years ago and all the livery cabs in NYC are Lincoln town cars it felt great being driven in them now since they are discontinued cabbies are replacing them with Mb and caddy Cts but I must admit the ride is not the same It wasn't like the town car then i realized i have never seen a German limo other than a maybach and the cost 200k plus. American luxery = a great riding car that feels like home in the streets. German luxery = great driving cars they only drives well on a autobahn that we don't have.
thaywood
Dedicated LVC Member
Yes. American luxury cars used to be big, heavy, lumbering beasts that rode like floating on a cloud but wallowed and bounced and floated in the curvies. We surely need more cars like that
Not that that's bad. I've had a '62 Continental, '71 Continental, '79 Town Coupe, and two '88 Town Cars. And I loved them. They were big, heavy, lumbering beasts that handled like land yachts, but they were supremely comfortable, luxurious, powerful and fast. The '71 Connie especially, with its 365hp/500ft-lb 460 V-8 could do the best smokey burnouts
But that's not what luxury car buyers want now. If someone has the money to plop down for a premium luxury sedan, they want something a little better than what is obviously a rebadged wrong-wheel-drive Taurus or Fusion. That's why Lincoln is losing so much of the market share. Why spend $60K on a FWD MKS when you can go across the street and get proper RWD Cadillac CTS or STS for the same money? This is true. However, if Lincoln can't even compete here in America, how do they plan to compete in the rest of the world. Luxury cars and sport sedans are defined by a few makes. Most notably Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti and BMW. Cadillac has seen the light and returned the majority of its vehicles to proper RWD platforms with real performance and luxury that can compete with its European rivals.
That's not entirely true. We have many highways that have speed limits of 65 and up. We also have many twisty, curvy roads. I frequently drive my Mark VIII on these roads because I enjoy it. So do a lot of other people judging by the numbers of BMW's I see on the road every day
Please refer to my first comment.
I'm sorry. The MKS is not anywhere close to being in the same league as the Mercedes S class, or even the Lexus LS. Lincoln had prestige...many moons ago. Somewhere around the 70's or 80's they lost their way, and have been going down hill ever since. Now Lincoln is nothing more than a Ford in a silk suit. And everybody knows it.
Nope. You're forgetting the STS. It's RWD as it should be and nothing like the MKS. And it's not just a re-badged Chevy. The DTS, however, is still FWD but at least it is V-8 powered. Again, nothing like the MKS.
Yes. It is. Very necessary. If Lincoln wishes to play in the premium luxury car sandbox, they need to have the same toys as everybody else. RWD and V-8 engines are prerequisites in this category. If you don't have them, you aren't in the same class.
That's all well and good. However, the FWD MKS and MKZ will not be able to compete with any of the premium luxury makes in other countries any better than they do here in the USA unless something is changed. How the showroom looks makes no difference if your product doesn't have the tools to be competitive.
They are not rising. Lincoln is falling. Rapidly. They're losing market share and owner loyalty. Lincoln is in a horrible state of affairs and it doesn't show any signs of getting any better. Even the brass at Lincoln know that they need a premium RWD halo car if they want Lincoln to be taken seriously as a real luxury brand. But Ford won't give them the money or resources to build such a vehicle. So they're stuck with reworking lesser Ford products into something resembling a premium luxury car that doesn't quite meet the standards of Mercedes, Cadillac, or BMW.
The LS was Lincoln's last real effort to produce a car that could compete with luxury cars from Japan and Europe. And it was a fabulous car. My next car will be an LS, preferably an '00-'02 with the 3.0L V-6 and 5-speed manual transmission. It's too bad they didn't put the manual in the V-8 models. The LS was by far the best handling Lincoln ever made. But they let the car stagnate for seven years without an update and it was overshadowed by the Cadillac CTS and most notably the CTS-V until it was finally trampled. But instead of updating and improving the LS, Ford took the easy and cheap road and re-badged the Fusion to make the Zyphyr (which was an insult to the original V-12 Lincoln Zephyr).
I don't quite understand that comment. In this class, RWD is absolutely a necessity. Audi's AWD system is rear-biased to elimitate torque steer and give their cars a RWD "feel". The FWD Audi's are in a somewhat lower class more in line with Volkswagen and Acura. In the higher class premium territory where Mercedes, BMW, and Jaguar live, RWD is absolutely necessary.
Yes. Keep refining Taurus' and Fusions and Edges. Come on. Lincoln needs some distinctive products that can be easily distinguished from their Ford siblings. And they desperately need RWD.
With RWD and V-8 engines.
Agreed. But there's nothing wrong with putting forth a little effort to at least try to compete. Lincoln's not even doing that.
It's not just about speed. It's about a combination of smooth ride, crisp handling, and refined luxury. That's what premium luxury car buyers want. If Lincoln want's to compete globally with the big boys, they'll need to ditch the wrong-wheel-drive and V6-only engine choice in favor of RWD/AWD and at least one V-8 engine option. They'll need to tighten up their quality. Make the bodystyles more distinctive, and upgrade the interiors to European/Japanese standards. Basically, they need to do what Cadillac has already done. Then maybe they'll avoid the fate of Mercury.
Just out of curiosity, you have "1701" in your username. Are you a Trek fan?
chocolat1701
Dedicated LVC Member
Thaywood I do agree to alot of your opinions regarding he level of quality hat Lincoln needs to improve upon and I think they have but still have more of a long way to go. We seem to be judging lincoln on what they have done in the past under previous CEO he rt ford Jr ir the 3rd (you know witch one) and before when Davey new model that lincoln bring out was a new direction but now under mullaly they are now being consistent across the model lines by using the same theme and queues to identify their brand. The question is what's going to happen when the next models come out are they going to keep the same strategy and build upon the good points and improve on the bad. We should have this Congo in 2012 when the refresh and new models are coming out and see if this new CEO gets it like it seems he is. I agree that they should have a rwd platform but its not a necessary to have all their cars rwd. According to Allan mullaly they are going to stop sharing sheet metal between lincoln and fords that just tells me that he is aware of this issue that alot of us have. You may have a point, why buy a mks if the Taurus is the same car but Toyota is also having that issue why buy a e series when a Camry is just as good. Letz wait until the refreshes come in and the updated models and then lets see where they are going with the lincoln brand. If he had the balls to kill the mercs something that was long overdue then he has the balls to fix this brand. Ever since he has become CEO he has made the right moves at Ford.
As one of my favorite characters will say "Ford live long and prosper"
As one of my favorite characters will say "Ford live long and prosper"
chocolat1701
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm a trekkie and I am and always will be aford fan lol....
thaywood
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm a Trekkie as well and a loyal Ford man all the way! Nice to see a fellow fan!
thaywood
Dedicated LVC Member
Still no love for the MKS forum, apparently.
Warden
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm gonna be lovin me some MKS real soon.
And as far as is this still premium luxury - hell yeah.
Come to Boston, i'll let you drive it. Obviously RWD or true AWD would be best but it is what it is for the time being. Soooo powerful, all the way through the RPM range. Pulls strong and the paddle shift is kickass.
. And as far as is this still premium luxury - hell yeah.
Come to Boston, i'll let you drive it. Obviously RWD or true AWD would be best but it is what it is for the time being. Soooo powerful, all the way through the RPM range. Pulls strong and the paddle shift is kickass.
thaywood
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm gonna be lovin me some MKS real soon
To each his own.
I'm sorry. I have to vehemently disagree. Lincoln is no longer a "premium" luxury car maker. It barely qualifies as "entry level" luxury. Especially when compared to the competition from Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Jaguar, etc. When the Ford beancounters give Lincoln the funds and resources to build the real RWD V-8 powered car they want to, then maybe they will be allowed back in the sandbox to play with the big boys. Until then, rebadged Fords with FWD and V-6 drivetrains just won't cut it.
I'll pass. But thanks anyway.
Warden
Dedicated LVC Member
Get over it would ya? Whats up with your constant bashing. The car is freaking unbelievable. Go drive one or shut up
.
Warden
Dedicated LVC Member
Constalntly hearing the same thing about the Harley Vrod, because it isn't air cooled it isn't a REAL Harley! Who made them and you the decision maker. Bike is fast, awesome, loud, sexy and gets compliments everywhere except from the "True Harley Men' that can't get over it. Hmmmm.
Just sayin.
ford nut
Local nut case
I don't think they will let you drive one wearing a straw hat with a blade of grass in your teeth.
I can hear the salesman now.
I can hear the salesman now.
thaywood
Dedicated LVC Member
Get over it would ya? Whats up with your constant bashing. The car is freaking unbelievable. Go drive one or shut up
Ummm. This is my thread and I will say what I like as often as I like. Thank you. You can't handle it? Go somewhere else or go make your own thread about how "freaking unbleievable" the car is.Constalntly hearing the same thing about the Harley Vrod, because it isn't air cooled it isn't a REAL Harley! Who made them and you the decision maker. Bike is fast, awesome, loud, sexy and gets compliments everywhere except from the "True Harley Men' that can't get over it. Hmmmm.
Everybody has an opinion. Mine is that the MKS is nothing more than a gussied up Taurus and that it is not a premium luxury car because of that and it's FWD drivetrain.
I don't think they will let you drive one wearing a straw hat with a blade of grass in your teeth.
No. They wouldn't let YOU in looking that way. Thankfully, I take a little more pride in my appearance than that.
I guess you hear that a lot. Oh well.
doug03ls
Active LVC Member
Looks like Ford recognizes that they have really screwed up the Lincoln.
http://blogs.automotive.com/report-...ing-lincoln-brand-81495.html/0/#axzz2FPtwOO9a
http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2012/12/10/news/doc50c51a14cb7ea246864904.txt
Let's hope they bring back a RWD version.
http://blogs.automotive.com/report-...ing-lincoln-brand-81495.html/0/#axzz2FPtwOO9a
http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2012/12/10/news/doc50c51a14cb7ea246864904.txt
Let's hope they bring back a RWD version.
thaywood
Dedicated LVC Member
Unfortunately, I didn't see anything in those articles about RWD. It's good that Lincoln is distancing itself from Ford, but only a proper front-engine, rear-drive vehicle with a V-8 engine will be able to save Lincoln from eventual extinction. Ford doesn't understand this. Or else they would have already built a RWD halo car for Lincoln. I've read rumors about a new RWD Lincoln being spun off the upcoming 2015 Mustang platform, complete with IRS. Let's hope it happens. It's the only thing that will have a chance to save Lincoln. As it stands now, every single brand that Lincoln is attempting to compete against makes either RWD or rear-biased AWD vehicles with V-8 engines. Lincoln currently has nothing even remotely resembling anything that can compete with anything offered by other luxury car manufacturers (except maybe Acura). I fear that unless they come up with some kind of RWD car soon, Lincoln will die a horrible, agonizing death.
83 markvi
LVC Member
Whay a sadlittle car and the gas milage they reported in the city is worse than a 70s Continental.
mathewbrow
New LVC Member
Re:
Lincoln( Ford Motor Company) is the leading brand in the luxury segment that price starts from $34,190, so it is still a premium segment car. But Lincoln car lover can get chance to full fill their dreams by pruchaging cheap Lincoln car.
For more detail check here bit.ly/1nyJG1D
Lincoln( Ford Motor Company) is the leading brand in the luxury segment that price starts from $34,190, so it is still a premium segment car. But Lincoln car lover can get chance to full fill their dreams by pruchaging cheap Lincoln car.
For more detail check here bit.ly/1nyJG1D
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But there is nothing smart about buying an only 3-4 year old salvaged Luxury car of any kind for only $2,000. If you cant afford to buy one in good condition, then this is an absolute no no. Sure you'll only have to smack down $2,000, but it'll cost you in the $10,000+ range just to get it into any passable driving condition. If you want a Lincoln for $2,000, buy a 12 year old Town Car or Continental, otherwise save up and keep dreaming.