Israel Deliberately Attacks UN Post

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RRocket said:
Who are the terrorists again??

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/To...25&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/25/D8J39A4O0.html


Apparently, they even were shelled during the rescue attempt....Who are the terrorist again?


Score:

Lebanon: 320+ civilians

Israel: 17 civilians
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Perhaps the term terrorist should be defined. I've never understood it to refer to a nations military operating in the open.

The job of any military comes down to killing people. This can be done on on one or randomly. If a population doesn't wish to become embroiled in a military operation where people will be getting killed perhaps it should expel those the military is seeking to kill, or if this is not possible, leave the area of operations. If you shelter and support terrorist you are a terrorist also and can expect to share their fate.

The Palistinians are bad news, no country should allow them within their borders. Just ask the Jordanians, the Lebanese, or the Israelis.
 
Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield

Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield'
Canadian wrote of militia's presence, 'necessity' of bombing

Joel Kom, with files from Steven Edwards, CanWest News Service
The Ottawa Citizen

Thursday, July 27, 2006

The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "shield" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.

Those words, written in an e-mail dated just nine days ago, offer a possible explanation as to why the post -- which according to UN officials was clearly marked and known to Israeli forces -- was hit by Israel on Tuesday night, said retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie yesterday.

The strike hit the UN observation post in the southern Lebanese village of El Khiam, killing Canadian Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener and three others serving as unarmed UN military observers in the area.

Just last week, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener wrote an e-mail about his experiences after nine months in the area, words Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie said are an obvious allusion to Hezbollah tactics.

"What I can tell you is this," he wrote in an e-mail to CTV dated July 18. "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both (Israeli) artillery and aerial bombing.

"The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters (sic) of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters (sic) from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

Those words, particularly the last sentence, are not-so-veiled language indicating Israeli strikes were aimed at Hezbollah targets near the post, said Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie.

"What that means is, in plain English, 'We've got Hezbollah fighters running around in our positions, taking our positions here and then using us for shields and then engaging the (Israeli Defence Forces)," he said.

That would mean Hezbollah was purposely setting up near the UN post, he added. It's a tactic Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie, who was the first UN commander in Sarajevo during the Bosnia civil war, said he's seen in past international missions: Aside from UN posts, fighters would set up near hospitals, mosques and orphanages.

A Canadian Forces infantry officer with the Edmonton-based Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and the only Canadian serving as a UN military observer in Lebanon, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener was no stranger to fighting nearby.

The UN post, he wrote in the e-mail, afforded a view of the "Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base."

"It appears that the lion's share of fighting between the IDF and Hezbollah has taken place in our area," he wrote, noting later it was too dangerous to venture out on patrols.

The e-mail appears to contradict the UN's claim there had been no Hezbollah activity in the vicinity of the strike.

The question of Hezbollah's infiltration of the area is significant because UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, speaking Tuesday just hours after the bombing, accused the Israelis of the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the base near Khiam in southern Lebanon.

A senior UN official, asked about the information contained in Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail concerning Hezbollah presence in the vicinity of the Khiam base, denied the world body had been caught in a contradiction.

"At the time, there had been no Hezbollah activity reported in the area," he said. "So it was quite clear they were not going after other targets; that, for whatever reason, our position was being fired upon.

"Whether or not they thought they were going after something else, we don't know. The fact was, we told them where we were. They knew where we were. The position was clearly marked, and they pounded the hell out of us."

Even if Hezbollah was not firing rockets at the time of the bombing, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail indicates they were using a terrorist tactic of purposely drawing out enemy forces near a neutral site, said retired Capt. Peter Forsberg, who did two UN tours between 1993 and 1995 during the Bosnian war.

The UN's limited mandate, meaning that its observers are unarmed and have few options, put the observers in a poor position, he said.

If indeed Israel was attempting to hit Hezbollah fighters in the area, it hasn't yet used the excuse to explain its actions because it wouldn't make it any less guilty in the world's eyes, Capt. Forsberg said.

© The Ottawa Citizen 2006
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50
 
Well Ron,

Anything you would like to say to us....:rolleyes:



The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "shield" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.
 
Bryan,

So it would seem that my original post title is correct. They DID deliberately bomb the UN post. Though it would appear they have cause. Although since they were on the horn with the Israelis for several hours you figure the Isarelis might have had the courtesy to tell them to GetTFO as bombs were imminent...
 
Maybe because there were no UN peacekeepers on the bus??? :D
 
I don't know Ron. Seems Israel was trying to do everything but blow up the UN post. Why didn't the UN people point out the Hebollah positions to get the target off their own backs.

So many questions the UN fails to answer.
 
MonsterMark said:
I don't know Ron. Seems Israel was trying to do everything but blow up the UN post. Why didn't the UN people point out the Hebollah positions to get the target off their own backs.

So many questions the UN fails to answer.
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my thoughts exactly.
 
RRocket said:
Bryan,

So it would seem that my original post title is correct. They DID deliberately bomb the UN post. Though it would appear they have cause. Although since they were on the horn with the Israelis for several hours you figure the Isarelis might have had the courtesy to tell them to GetTFO as bombs were imminent...
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So you are maintaining your position of calling the Israelis terrorists? :mad:

The original post title is correct inasmuch that it takes a deliberate act to release a bomb from a fighter jet weapons bay, but your implication was that Israel deliberately targeted UN people. Don't try to wiggle out of this. You are anti-Israel and everybody knows it.
 
I'm not anti-Israel. I'm anti-kill innocents. And to date in this new war/conflict, Israel has killed more innocents than the "terrorists".
 
RRocket said:
I'm not anti-Israel. I'm anti-kill innocents. And to date in this new war/conflict, Israel has killed more innocents than the "terrorists".
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And of course you have PROOF of that??? *owned*

Since Hezbollah doesn't wear uniforms, but dresses as civilians, why don't you tell us, Mr. Smart Guy, exactly how many innocent civilians have been killed so far by the Israelis?

Nice how you put terrorists in quotes. Are you a Hezbollah sympathizer? You must be, or you would have condemned them for attacking Israel first. Do you remember how many innocent Americans were killed by Hezbollah in 1983? Are you anti-kill innocents unless they are Americans or Jews?

I guess that would make you anti-American and anti-Jew.
 
Fossten,

Well in this case, it's easy to prove. More children have died in Lebanon than the total of civilians killed in Isreal since this new conflict/war started. It would be difficult for you to prove little kids are Hezbollah I'd assume. I suppose we could add in a number of women, but they have in the past strapped bombs to themselves. So I'll just use the kids. And perhaps you'll recall that when the Iraq conflict was about to start (I'm not sure if you were at this board right from the get go), I said I didn't think it was worth going to Iraq since it wasn't worth even the death of a single American. For that comment I wasn't labelled "anti-American", but "pacifist" IIRC. I still stand by that statement today. Now, the fatality count for US service people is nearing 9/11 numbers, and climbing every day. Was it worth it? I still don't think so. And FWIW, my mom is married to an American service-man. Again...if you feel better about yourself by labelling me, have at it. It doesn't bother me. I don't have to have your approval for my views. If you REALLY want to know me, I'll call you up on my dime and tell you about what I've done to help Americans and ease their sufferings over the last several years at my expense and peril. No joke. If you'd rather not hear the voice of a "jew-hater, american-hater, christ-hater", then feel free to PM me and I'll fill in all the details.
 
RRocket said:
Well in this case, it's easy to prove. More children have died in Lebanon than the total of civilians killed in Isreal since this new conflict/war started. It would be difficult for you to prove little kids are Hezbollah I'd assume. I suppose we could add in a number of women, but they have in the past strapped bombs to themselves. So I'll just use the kids.
Click to expand...
Are the Isrealis targeting women and children, or is this the unfortunate result of having terrorist hide amongst the general population and use them for cover?

Perhaps you haven't noticed, the Hezbollah has been launching hundreds of rockets, blindly, into Israel EVERYDAY, and it had been going on long before Israel responded. This is done with the sole intention of terrorizing and killing civilians.
 
RRocket said:
Fossten,

Well in this case, it's easy to prove. More children have died in Lebanon than the total of civilians killed in Isreal since this new conflict/war started. It would be difficult for you to prove little kids are Hezbollah I'd assume. I suppose we could add in a number of women, but they have in the past strapped bombs to themselves. So I'll just use the kids. And perhaps you'll recall that when the Iraq conflict was about to start (I'm not sure if you were at this board right from the get go), I said I didn't think it was worth going to Iraq since it wasn't worth even the death of a single American. For that comment I wasn't labelled "anti-American", but "pacifist" IIRC. I still stand by that statement today. Now, the fatality count for US service people is nearing 9/11 numbers, and climbing every day. Was it worth it? I still don't think so. And FWIW, my mom is married to an American service-man. Again...if you feel better about yourself by labelling me, have at it. It doesn't bother me. I don't have to have your approval for my views. If you REALLY want to know me, I'll call you up on my dime and tell you about what I've done to help Americans and ease their sufferings over the last several years at my expense and peril. No joke. If you'd rather not hear the voice of a "jew-hater, american-hater, christ-hater", then feel free to PM me and I'll fill in all the details.
Click to expand...

Your statement is irrelevant, because you would place blame on Israel for the deaths of innocent Lebanese. This despite the fact that it is Hezbollah's fault they are dying. It isn't Israel who chose this war. Israel didn't target civilians, Hezbollah did. Israel isn't hiding behind civilians, they are shielding their own. Israel isn't riding around in ambulances firing off rockets, Hezbollah is. Israel isn't forcing women and children (have you noticed how many women and children were in that house? Isn't that fishy to you?) to sit inside a building while they THEMSELVES collapse the building EIGHT HOURS after the air strikes, Hezbollah is. Israel isn't sponsoring terrorism, Syria and Iran are. Israel left Lebanon alone 6 years ago. Israel has only responded to direct attacks and threats.

You would come across as more intelligent if you'd actually research information instead of swallowing the drive-by media's action line without question or skepticism.

Get a clue.
 
Fossten,

So EVERY woman in children (or civilian) that has died is simply because they are human shields for Hezbollah? You actually believe that? If that's the case, there is nothing that can be said to change your mind...
 
RRocket said:
Fossten,

So EVERY woman in children (or civilian) that has died is simply because they are human shields for Hezbollah? You actually believe that? If that's the case, there is nothing that can be said to change your mind...
Click to expand...

The trouble with your thinking is that you have no evidence that Israel has deliberately targeted civilians. The evidence favors my (and Israel's) side in this, coupled with the FACT that they were attacked without provocation.

You don't see right vs. wrong here, nor do you see good vs. evil. You see evil vs. evil at best.

Why, if you're not a Jew-hater, do you have such a bias against Israel, considering there's no evidence to support the foundless accusation that they are deliberately targeting civilians?
 
Are ALL of the deaths due to directly targetting civilians? NO. But there is no question that Israel has done little to prevent civilian casualties. They've bombed roads, bridges...even the buses of the public transportation system. They have done little to prevent needless casualties. My friend who made it back from Lebanon, said the roads were in such ruin, that he had a hard time even WALKING to the Canadian Embassy. So when you make it difficult for civilians to flee, how can you say Israel is minimizing civilian casualties?
 
:) :mad: :) :mad: :) :mad: :) :mad: which is good, which is bad:invasion: now which is good and which is bad. if your life was on the line which one would you shoot. i still believe our country casualties of innocent, fathers, sons, brothers, sisters, and wives is because we have so much honor and respect and we are willing to get shot at first before we shoot.
 
RRocket said:
Are ALL of the deaths due to directly targetting civilians? NO. But there is no question that Israel has done little to prevent civilian casualties. They've bombed roads, bridges...even the buses of the public transportation system. They have done little to prevent needless casualties. My friend who made it back from Lebanon, said the roads were in such ruin, that he had a hard time even WALKING to the Canadian Embassy. So when you make it difficult for civilians to flee, how can you say Israel is minimizing civilian casualties?
Click to expand...

So, you tell us... what strategic purpose would the Israelis have for targeting civilians. Apply your logic. Every civilian killed hurts the Isreali war effort, it errodes support for the military action, not only overseas but within Israel as well. It emboldens and results in more terrorists.

So why would they do it? Just because they are "meanies"

Think about it. What is the strategic value of killing civilians??
 
RRocket said:
Are ALL of the deaths due to directly targetting civilians? NO. But there is no question that Israel has done little to prevent civilian casualties. They've bombed roads, bridges...even the buses of the public transportation system. They have done little to prevent needless casualties. My friend who made it back from Lebanon, said the roads were in such ruin, that he had a hard time even WALKING to the Canadian Embassy. So when you make it difficult for civilians to flee, how can you say Israel is minimizing civilian casualties?
Click to expand...

You are incorrect. The bridges and roads and airports were necessary targets to prevent Syria and Iran from shipping in more rockets and launchers. That is military strategy. These targets were hit at night to minimize casualties of any kind.

They have done surgical strikes that would make US bomber pilots proud. They've done everything they could to prevent civilian casualties. They drop leaflets right before an attack. They make phone calls. Come on, guy. Use your common sense. If Israel wanted to kill civilians there'd be tens of thousands dead. You do know that they have nukes? Hello! You're ignoring the facts right in front of your face because of your predisposed bias. That's also known as prejudice, which is also known as...rhymes with spigotry.
 
As I said. My friend just came back. He's not a Lebanon lover either. Beirut was his stop-over on his way to Russia, and he just happened to get caught on his way back. He said the roads near and in the cities were mostly ruined. He didn't see any wrecked bridges though. And I disagree. The US also had the same problems with the Iraquis positioning missile/AA batteries near buildings, yet the US had far more success at hitting their targets. I'm sorry if you disagree.
 
RRocket said:
As I said. My friend just came back. He's not a Lebanon lover either. Beirut was his stop-over on his way to Russia, and he just happened to get caught on his way back. He said the roads near and in the cities were mostly ruined. He didn't see any wrecked bridges though. And I disagree. The US also had the same problems with the Iraquis positioning missile/AA batteries near buildings, yet the US had far more success at hitting their targets. I'm sorry if you disagree.
Click to expand...


You know how to win a war? You take away your enemies ability to wage war on you. Airports, roads, highways, byways, bridges were all being used by Hezbollah to transport arms and soldiers (aka terrorist). I'm no military expert, not even remotely close to being one; but I absolutely kick ass at games like 'Risk' and 'Axis & Allies' by doing exactly that, taking away my enemies ability to wage war on me.

As Calabrio mentioned, common sense would dictate, if Israel didn't care about civilian casualties or was in fact targeting them, there would be ten's of thousands of civilian deaths, not the few hundred.
 
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