Jag S type front spring question

craigh

craigh

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Wondering if anyone can easily answer my question. I have a '00 LS 5 Speed. I am going to put Bilsteins in my LS doing the swap to a Jag S type springs in the front. I already have Bilsteins in the rear. Have some $ now and can afford to do the front. I know I will need to get springs for an S Type. For many reasons I am not going to lower my LS , so I am looking to find which spring would be a stock or stock replacement sport spring from the S Type. I figure that I can get springs for a 2000-2002 S Type with non adaptive suspension for an S Type with manual transmission and it should be a match for my LS. My question is that in my search I am seeing springs such as a Moog 81752 but I cannot tell if this is used for both a base or sport suspension on the Jag. Is there even a different spring or different suspension type on the Jag? Anyone have any experience with this?
 
Do not buy Moog springs. Go OEM Jag.

The Jag S-Type "Sport" uses the "adaptive" electronic suspension... so the spring rates will most likely be different from the "base" springs.

You would want the base springs for the Bilstein shocks.

IF you have installed Bilsteins on the rear with factory LS springs... you may want to consider putting Jag springs on the rear also... to "balance" the handling of the LS.

The springs are different on the Jag... from the LS. Both in coil count and spring rates. The LS front springs are even different in taper/diameter... from the rears.

Never mix and match shocks... and never mix and match springs either.
 
AJV8 I was just there today at the U Pull Yard, they only had on s type and it had the electronic shocks. I am certain that this was the wrong spring for what I am looking for. So hard to find.

04 Sport LS - I really appreciate your comments and posting regarding this upgrade. I am taking yoru advice to heart and want to do this right. When I installed the rear Bilsteins I did not have he funds or the time to do the fronts. But now I do. I have read through your previous posts and just today i was able to find some springs seats from the rear end of an LS. It was a fun using the spring compressor at the U Pull yard! I know you said in a previous post to be careful when removing the m. I found the trick to getting the the spring seats off. Hammer the shock on the lip that holds the spring in place. They loosen up by hitting around the outside of the lip and they basically slipped off. So I have the first of the parts that I need.

Do you know of any sources other then the Jag dealer for OEM or OEM replacement springs. I don't want to break the bank if I do not need to. Junk yards are so hit and miss that I don't think I will ever find the right spring, and of course they will have a ton of miles on them and they will be weakened. I am trying to set up the car correctly and would rather have new. What is your experience with the Moog springs? I suspect that they are a replacement, but not really right. Probably a mushy ride overall. Just curious what you know. FWIW, my first LS 5 speed had the front sway bar replaced at the dealership under warranty. They put in the sway bar for the base suspension. Holy crap, was that a mess. Of course I noticed the understeer and had I brought the car back and had them put in the right part. I am trying to upgrade the handling so I want the right parts here that will improve it, now just get by. Let me know your thoughts please as you are kind of the pathfinder on this upgrade and know the most of anyone that has posted here.
 
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While Moog used to make good parts, most of their production has moved out of the U.S. If you want the "factory" ride... go OEM.

While there was a bit of confusion towards the end of my suspension thread... the original part numbers for the Jag springs... are valid. The numbers for the Bilstein shocks are valid too.

I ordered my parts from a dealer in Cali, (years ago now)... but Terry's Jaguar in Michigan seems to be the better place to work with. Call them and tell them what you are wanting to do.

Ajv8 is correct. Source your parts for an S-Type from before "M45255 (2002.5)"

Howver... if you have a V8... source springs for a V8. If you have a V6... source springs for a V6. Doing differently will most likely cause handling issues... especially in rain and snow.
 
What about the anti-roll bars (sway bars) ?

Are the Jag bars larger diameter? And, if you had the mounts, bushings, and end links, would they be direct fit on an LS?

What about thunderbird suspension?

Do various jag/ls trims have different bars, or are they all running the same sway bars?

And did they change the suspension or sway bars mid production, or did the setup stay the same for the entire run?

Ill be trolling this thread for updates. Haha.

I just replaced struts and upper arms all around, and while it vastly improved the handling (150k on the original struts, upper ball joints totally shot, and bad rear-most bushings on the back upper arms), the car just doesnt stay flat enough for my liking. To be fair, i used plain jane, el cheapo struts. Needs a few minor odds and ins to get it back to par before i go putting bilstein money down XD

The car doesnt handle bad for what it is. Just that the suspension is pretty soft. The nose tends to dip an aweful lot on rough roads, and the ass end sways a good bit and has a lot of rebound. A quality set of struts would help a lot. But overall, id like to pair them with a stiffer spring and a stiffer roll bar. I dont want to lower the car at all tho, which is why i was curious about the 'factory' options for this dew platform, whether from ford or jag

I live in west virginia, and the roads are very curvy with lots of elevation change. My place is a mile up a dirt road. The soft suspension makes for a smooth ride but its not ideal for my area... and i just prefer a stiffer ride, personally.
 
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MtnStNomad said:
The nose tends to dip an aweful lot on rough roads, and the ass end sways a good bit and has a lot of rebound.
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That would mostly be because of the cheap SHOCKS, (NOT struts), that are on the vehicle.

The rear of the car swaying... is most likely due to worn out rear toe links... but could also be broken or worn out rear sway bar links... and/or worn out rear lower control arms. At 150k on the vehicle... most of your suspension parts are probably due for replacement.

Hopefully... the parts you have replaced already... aren't "bottom basement" aftermarket parts. They won't hold up very long... and you most likely will be replacing them again in a couple years.

Moog and AC Delco are the "best of the worst" for aftermarket parts.

Don't try to use T-bird parts. There was something different Ford did with them... but I don't recall what it was.

Jag parts are still available... if you don't mind the cost. Lemforder is best for aftermarket parts... and is the Jag OEM supplier.

The V6 engine in the LS... for some reason weighs 100 lbs more than the V8. You COULD swap in a V6 front sway bar... if you have the time and inclination. They are a bear to swap out.

You didn't mention the year of your LS... but 2002 and before use a different 14mm ball joint stud on knuckle for the front lower control arm. 2003 and after use a 16mm ball joint stud in the knuckle.

2002&1/2 was a crossover year... so you have to measure the ball joint stud on the knuckle of the LS... to verify which lower control arm fits your LS.
 
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T-Bird was set up to be a softer ride, since it was targeted to an older market that they figured wouldn't appreciate a stiffer suspension. Some T-Bird owners have swapped in LS shocks & springs to get a sportier ride.
 
That's what it was... a softer ride. I think the T-Bird used the "Euro" springs and shocks from the S-Type.

Also... IIRC... the T-Bird used the 2002 and earlier front end Jag parts on all years of the T-Bird.

I might be wrong about that though. It's been a while since I dug into info on the T-Bird suspension.
 
Well...kinda. The way I heard the development story was that the Ford people got access to the DEW98 platform 1st (by about a month IIRC) & solidified the majority of the parameters for the interior and exterior dimensions. By doing so they kinda forced their vehicle constraints onto the Lincoln & Jaguar camps. Stuff like length & width, wheelbase, passenger volume (front & rear), trunk interior volume, etc. Because they all had to share the platform they all had to use the same basic layout, whether they wanted it or not. About the only way the brand's could really differentiate themselves was with the suspension..., and Jag got to get .1 liter to their V8 cause they were the "premiere" brand
 
P.S.- Jaguar got theirs tho...Aston Martin did it to them when the V8 Vantage came out...with 4.3 liters (& eventually 4.7) to trump the Jags 4.2. There was alotta internal bickering in the PAG back then, or so I've been told
 
The Thunderbird was meant to be a boulevard cruiser, so softest set-up of the three. The LS was meant to be the handling Euro fighter, so sporty was the goal. (Remember the passive rear endlinks?) The Jaguar was supposed to be top-tiered outta the lot, so was supposed to combine the best of both worlds. In a perfect world, there would've been plenty of cooperation between the 3 groups, but we don't live in a perfect world. There was some corroboration between Lincoln & Jaguar, but not so much with Ford. That's the story I heard anyway
 
When the PAG was disbanded, the 1st thing Jag did was start reworking stuff to further differentiate itself. Shared some stuff with the Lincoln group, but almost nothing with Ford
 
HRLNKN said:
When the PAG was disbanded, the 1st thing Jag did was start reworking stuff to further differentiate itself. Shared some stuff with the Lincoln group, but almost nothing with Ford
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PAG existed until it was broken up in 2008 and all the brands sold off by 2010. Lincoln’s budget was cut during the explorer tire payout and they were pulled from PAG.

the 02.5 major s-type upgrade and the aluminum dew98 variants were greenlit under PAG. ford gave up on the platform for domestics after realizing it wouldn’t work for the new mustang and let it die.
 
And either way you look at it... Jag stole Ford's $$$ during the developement of the DEW98 platform... and Ford abandoned it.

Though there does seem to be a modified version of it, (at least suspension wise), in the IRS Mustangs from back then... and up to present day.

And maybe even in the Ford Fusion. (???)
 
I know the stretched version that ended up under the XJ was originally supposed to underpin the Town Car, but the nixed that around the same time they nixed using it for the Mustang, for the same reason. If they'd stayed with the original plans I wonder how different everything would've been.
 
ajv8 said:
PAG existed until it was broken up in 2008 and all the brands sold off by 2010. Lincoln’s budget was cut during the explorer tire payout and they were pulled from PAG.

the 02.5 major s-type upgrade and the aluminum dew98 variants were greenlit under PAG. ford gave up on the platform for domestics after realizing it wouldn’t work for the new mustang and let it die.
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I remember Lincoln got dropped really early. Only a few Euro-spec/Asian-market LS's were ever made. Kinda sad really
 
Jaguar couldn't get their numbers where they needed to be. That's why the really cool stuff like the supercharged X-Type & the original rear-engined F-Type got scrapped
 
The Fusion was on the evolved Mondeo platform I think, so related to the X-Type. The Evoque/F-Pace platform is the evolved version of that IIRC (D8?). Volvo used the platform before them tho on the S60/S80/V60/XC60 (P3). Rinse. Reuse. Recycle
 
the dew98 rear subframe finally got to enjoy retirement in 2019.

ford used the most stuff from volvo, eucd and p2/d3. buying volvo out when they were ready to launch the brand new 1999 s80 was smart. the last gen explorer and taurus rode on that platform till the very end.
 
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