King Shrub strikes again

97silverlsc

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Typical of Shrub. The RWW here touted how he was signing this bill as a great thing, but to Shrub, who thinks himself above the law, it is meaningless.


Bush Could Bypass New Torture Ban
By Charlie Savage
The Boston Globe
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/01/04/bush_could_bypass_new_torture_ban/
Wednesday 04 January 2005

Waiver right is reserved.

Washington - When President Bush last week signed the bill outlawing the torture of detainees, he quietly reserved the right to bypass the law under his powers as commander in chief.

After approving the bill last Friday, Bush issued a "signing statement" - an official document in which a president lays out his interpretation of a new law - declaring that he will view the interrogation limits in the context of his broader powers to protect national security. This means Bush believes he can waive the restrictions, the White House and legal specialists said.

"The executive branch shall construe [the law] in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President . . . as Commander in Chief," Bush wrote, adding that this approach "will assist in achieving the shared objective of the Congress and the President . . . of protecting the American people from further terrorist attacks."

Some legal specialists said yesterday that the president's signing statement, which was posted on the White House website but had gone unnoticed over the New Year's weekend, raises serious questions about whether he intends to follow the law.

A senior administration official, who spoke to a Globe reporter about the statement on condition of anonymity because he is not an official spokesman, said the president intended to reserve the right to use harsher methods in special situations involving national security.

"We are not going to ignore this law," the official said, noting that Bush, when signing laws, routinely issues signing statements saying he will construe them consistent with his own constitutional authority. "We consider it a valid statute. We consider ourselves bound by the prohibition on cruel, unusual, and degrading treatment."

But, the official said, a situation could arise in which Bush may have to waive the law's restrictions to carry out his responsibilities to protect national security. He cited as an example a "ticking time bomb" scenario, in which a detainee is believed to have information that could prevent a planned terrorist attack.

"Of course the president has the obligation to follow this law, [but] he also has the obligation to defend and protect the country as the commander in chief, and he will have to square those two responsibilities in each case," the official added. "We are not expecting that those two responsibilities will come into conflict, but it's possible that they will."

David Golove, a New York University law professor who specializes in executive power issues, said that the signing statement means that Bush believes he can still authorize harsh interrogation tactics when he sees fit.

"The signing statement is saying 'I will only comply with this law when I want to, and if something arises in the war on terrorism where I think it's important to torture or engage in cruel, inhuman, and degrading conduct, I have the authority to do so and nothing in this law is going to stop me,' " he said. "They don't want to come out and say it directly because it doesn't sound very nice, but it's unmistakable to anyone who has been following what's going on."

Golove and other legal specialists compared the signing statement to Bush's decision, revealed last month, to bypass a 1978 law forbidding domestic wiretapping without a warrant. Bush authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans' international phone calls and e-mails without a court order starting after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The president and his aides argued that the Constitution gives the commander in chief the authority to bypass the 1978 law when necessary to protect national security. They also argued that Congress implicitly endorsed that power when it authorized the use of force against the perpetrators of the attacks.

Legal academics and human rights organizations said Bush's signing statement and his stance on the wiretapping law are part of a larger agenda that claims exclusive control of war-related matters for the executive branch and holds that any involvement by Congress or the courts should be minimal.

Vice President Dick Cheney recently told reporters, "I believe in a strong, robust executive authority, and I think that the world we live in demands it. . . . I would argue that the actions that we've taken are totally appropriate and consistent with the constitutional authority of the president."

Since the 2001 attacks, the administration has also asserted the power to bypass domestic and international laws in deciding how to detain prisoners captured in the Afghanistan war. It also has claimed the power to hold any US citizen Bush designates an "enemy combatant" without charges or access to an attorney.

And in 2002, the administration drafted a secret legal memo holding that Bush could authorize interrogators to violate anti-torture laws when necessary to protect national security. After the memo was leaked to the press, the administration eliminated the language from a subsequent version, but it never repudiated the idea that Bush could authorize officials to ignore a law.

The issue heated up again in January 2005. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales disclosed during his confirmation hearing that the administration believed that anti-torture laws and treaties did not restrict interrogators at overseas prisons because the Constitution does not apply abroad.

In response, Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, filed an amendment to a Defense Department bill explicitly saying that that the cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees in US custody is illegal regardless of where they are held.

McCain's office did not return calls seeking comment yesterday.

The White House tried hard to kill the McCain amendment. Cheney lobbied Congress to exempt the CIA from any interrogation limits, and Bush threatened to veto the bill, arguing that the executive branch has exclusive authority over war policy.

But after veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress approved it, Bush called a press conference with McCain, praised the measure, and said he would accept it.

Legal specialists said the president's signing statement called into question his comments at the press conference.

"The whole point of the McCain Amendment was to close every loophole," said Marty Lederman, a Georgetown University law professor who served in the Justice Department from 1997 to 2002. "The president has re-opened the loophole by asserting the constitutional authority to act in violation of the statute where it would assist in the war on terrorism."

Elisa Massimino, Washington director for Human Rights Watch, called Bush's signing statement an "in-your-face affront" to both McCain and to Congress.

"The basic civics lesson that there are three co-equal branches of government that provide checks and balances on each other is being fundamentally rejected by this executive branch," she said.

"Congress is trying to flex its muscle to provide those checks [on detainee abuse], and it's being told through the signing statement that it's impotent. It's quite a radical view."
:(
 
97silverlsc said:
Typical of Shrub. The RWW here touted how he was signing this bill as a great thing, but to Shrub, who thinks himself above the law, it is meaningless.
:(

Once again, you aren't paying attention.

The conservatives on this board were mostly opposed to the "Al-Qaeda Bill of Rights."

The bill itself is "meaningless" since it has provision within it for ignoring it in an emergency. That provision in and of itself is a tacit admission that torture works.

And statute law cannot trump the constitution, which grants the President broad power to repel foreign threats, a power repeatedly upheld by the Courts, even if it isn't upheld by the Globe's carefully chosen left-wing "experts."
 
A few reason's why people disdain dictators is due to the fact that they do what they want, when they want and are not subject to following the law. How the righties cannot see the ever so slowly growing similarities with this president is beyond me. Luckily, only two more years.
 
95DevilleNS said:
A few reason's why people disdain dictators is due to the fact that they do what they want, when they want and are not subject to following the law. How the righties cannot see the ever so slowly growing similarities with this president is beyond me. Luckily, only two more years.

A few additional reasons why people disdain dictators might be because they torture and kill their citizens for entertainment and sport.

Yep, Saddam tortured and killed thousands. Bush gathers evidence of phone calls placed to known terrorists. He might need to use special interrorgation techniques to prevent an attack. No difference at all. Why can't I see that? Perhaps because I'm sane?

Oh, by the way, there aren't ever "only two more years" for dictators. They don't have elections.
 
97silverlsc said:
Or is it get his head out of his rear?

Well make up your ever-confused mind, Phil. Either Bush is a buffoon and a dolt, or he's a power-mad clever dictator.

You can't have it both ways. (Well, maybe you can, but we'll leave your personal life out of it.)
 
Would someone on the left please read the constitution and the powers given to the president in article two? These arguments are tiresome because some of you Bush-hateres simply refuse to argue honestly.

You don't like Bush. Fine. That's respectable. Now argue why his policy or philosphy is flawed. But stop this ridiculous attempt to make every issue a scandal and to attempt to represent things that you simply aren't educated enough to understand as illegal.

Bush isn't a boogey man, he's a guy who appears to be doing what he thinks is best for the country. If you disagree with him, argue why he's wrong, but stop this grand standing. It just makes you look petty and stupid.
 
Calabrio said:
Would someone on the left please read the constitution and the powers given to the president in article two? These arguments are tiresome because some of you Bush-hateres simply refuse to argue honestly.

You don't like Bush. Fine. That's respectable. Now argue why his policy or philosphy is flawed. But stop this ridiculous attempt to make every issue a scandal and to attempt to represent things that you simply aren't educated enough to understand as illegal.

Bush isn't a boogey man, he's a guy who appears to be doing what he thinks is best for the country. If you disagree with him, argue why he's wrong, but stop this grand standing. It just makes you look petty and stupid.

Nah, let him make himself look petty and stupid. It's much more amusing this way.

Personally, I celebrate the article. At least somebody in leadership has the balls to defend our country. We can't count on Pelosi, Kennedy, Murtha, Reid, and Schumer to keep us safe.
 
fossten said:
Forget how to count, did you? Or are you leaving us after next year?

Well, it's 2006 now and the elections are in 2008. Six deducted from Eight equals two. But if it makes you happy, only Two years and Ten months to go.
 
95DevilleNS said:
Well, it's 2006 now and the elections are in 2008. Six deducted from Eight equals two. But if it makes you happy, only Two years and Ten months to go.
Actually, the new guy doesn't take over on election day. His power is not 'turned' on until he is sworn in Jan. 2009.

So what would make make me happy is if you admitted that you have to wait OVER 3 YEARS for someone to replace Bush.:D
 
MonsterMark said:
Actually, the new guy doesn't take over on election day. His power is not 'turned' on until he is sworn in Jan. 2009.

So what would make make me happy is if you admitted that you have to wait OVER 3 YEARS for someone to replace Bush.:D

Sigh......You know those last few months don't count for anything, but ok..........

Only 3+ years until Bush leaves!
 
MonsterMark said:
Actually, the new guy doesn't take over on election day. His power is not 'turned' on until he is sworn in Jan. 2009.

Especially if it's a Democratic President leaving office while a Republican President is moving in. Remember what Clinton did to GWB in 2000, disregarding decades of tradition. Distasteful.
 
fossten said:
Especially if it's a Democratic President leaving office while a Republican President is moving in. Remember what Clinton did to GWB in 2000, disregarding decades of tradition. Distasteful.

I don't, will you please enlighten me?
 
95DevilleNS said:
I don't, will you please enlighten me?

Sure. It is tradition for the outgoing president to give the incoming president instant access to federal facilities. No president has ever balked on this tradition. However, lame duck Bill Clinton refused to allow the Bush transition team access to federal facilities normally available to an incoming president until Gore’s five-week foot-dragging attempt to steal the election had been stopped. He also prevented the GAO (General Accounting Office) from releasing normally accessible and necessary funds to assist the transition.

He is the only president ever to do that, AFAIK.
 
fossten said:
Sure. It is tradition for the outgoing president to give the incoming president instant access to federal facilities. No president has ever balked on this tradition. However, lame duck Bill Clinton refused to allow the Bush transition team access to federal facilities normally available to an incoming president until Gore’s five-week foot-dragging attempt to steal the election had been stopped. He also prevented the GAO (General Accounting Office) from releasing normally accessible and necessary funds to assist the transition.

He is the only president ever to do that, AFAIK.

He was also the only outgoing President to vandalize government property and steal furniture from the White House.
 
RB3 said:
He was also the only outgoing President to vandalize government property and steal furniture from the White House.

The CIA and the FBI are STILL looking for the missing W's. They do, however, know where the china and crystal is. Some place in upstate New York they say.:rolleyes:
 
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fossten said:
Sure. It is tradition for the outgoing president to give the incoming president instant access to federal facilities. No president has ever balked on this tradition. However, lame duck Bill Clinton refused to allow the Bush transition team access to federal facilities normally available to an incoming president until Gore’s five-week foot-dragging attempt to steal the election had been stopped. He also prevented the GAO (General Accounting Office) from releasing normally accessible and necessary funds to assist the transition.

He is the only president ever to do that, AFAIK.

Gee, untill the dust settled in the FLA recounts, GW could not be declared the next pres, now could he? So what is so wrong w/ that?

While I'm not advocating what happened to all the "W"s, that was all caused by Clinton's staff. He didn't direct them to do that, nor did he do that himself. That is just a simple-minded dilusion spoon-fed you by the RWWs.

Also, GW is the only president who's "won" the office by such narrow margins. If the shoe was on the other foot, do you really believe GW wouldn't have "dragged his feet" w/ a recount? I suppose you would, you swallow pretty much all the other lies he and his administration spew.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
Gee, untill the dust settled in the FLA recounts, GW could not be declared the next pres, now could he? So what is so wrong w/ that?

While I'm not advocating what happened to all the "W"s, that was all caused by Clinton's staff. He didn't direct them to do that, nor did he do that himself. That is just a simple-minded dilusion spoon-fed you by the RWWs.

Also, GW is the only president who's "won" the office by such narrow margins. If the shoe was on the other foot, do you really believe GW wouldn't have "dragged his feet" w/ a recount? I suppose you would, you swallow pretty much all the other lies he and his administration spew.

See, you don't understand your own hypocrisy. Clinton wasn't responsible for the actions of his staff? HE was the one who ORDERED the GAO to hold the funds! Your statement is so hypocritical it's not even funny. You fibs blame Bush for everything under the sun, from Abu Ghraib to global warming, yet Clinton couldn't even be responsible for something his OWN STAFF did?

"Why don't you wake up and smell what you're shoveling?"

- Al Powell, Die Hard
 
fossten said:
See, you don't understand your own hypocrisy. Clinton wasn't responsible for the actions of his staff? HE was the one who ORDERED the GAO to hold the funds! Your statement is so hypocritical it's not even funny. You fibs blame Bush for everything under the sun, from Abu Ghraib to global warming, yet Clinton couldn't even be responsible for something his OWN STAFF did?

"Why don't you wake up and smell what you're shoveling?"

- Al Powell, Die Hard

I wasn't referring to the GAO issue. What's wrong? Reading comprehension slipping again? Need a refresher course?
 

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