I believe I have read that Ford, in a rare moment of lucidity, re-designed the 4.0 Jag engine, to sport iron sleeves in the cylinder bores, instead of the "coated" aluminum...Wouldnt this be a better plan, for a performance engine?
Land Speed LS
- Thread starter cammerfe
- Start date
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Nikasil
The 'Nikasil' process cylinders were only used for a short while at the very beginning of the four litre existence. Mine has iron sleeves and will probably need only a light honing before fitting the pistons.
KenS from Ben's Place
The 'Nikasil' process cylinders were only used for a short while at the very beginning of the four litre existence. Mine has iron sleeves and will probably need only a light honing before fitting the pistons.
KenS from Ben's Place
NYC LS8
Dedicated LVC Member
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Land Speed Racing
I got an email asking about the difference between Land Speed Racing at Bonneville and at Maxton. Just as a thumbnail, the difference is between running one mile and running at least three. Bonneville, for my car, would necessitate a gear change because, although I've not reached top speed in one mile, I'd surely be 'wound-out' before I went three miles. The 'long course' at B'ville is five miles.
On the other hand, we DO have reciprocity of licenses. And because Maxton is the only place that has my classes and a one mile distance, the Ben's Place Racing Team entries stand as NATIONAL records. Ultimately, Texas will surely get their activities to the point that they'll be included, but at this point they're still too new to have a full program. And both El Mirage and Muroc in California run 1.3 miles.
KenS from Ben's Place
I got an email asking about the difference between Land Speed Racing at Bonneville and at Maxton. Just as a thumbnail, the difference is between running one mile and running at least three. Bonneville, for my car, would necessitate a gear change because, although I've not reached top speed in one mile, I'd surely be 'wound-out' before I went three miles. The 'long course' at B'ville is five miles.
On the other hand, we DO have reciprocity of licenses. And because Maxton is the only place that has my classes and a one mile distance, the Ben's Place Racing Team entries stand as NATIONAL records. Ultimately, Texas will surely get their activities to the point that they'll be included, but at this point they're still too new to have a full program. And both El Mirage and Muroc in California run 1.3 miles.
KenS from Ben's Place
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Aluminium Rods
I had an extensive discussion with my rod manufacturer this afternoon. He's suggested that it may be necessary to turn the rod throws on the crank to 1.89 Honda size in order to have room in the crank case for the rod big ends. I'll be sending him a rod to work from. More soon!
KS
I had an extensive discussion with my rod manufacturer this afternoon. He's suggested that it may be necessary to turn the rod throws on the crank to 1.89 Honda size in order to have room in the crank case for the rod big ends. I'll be sending him a rod to work from. More soon!
KS
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Still doing the Jag 4.0 engine? Just curious, but if you are swapping out all these internals, why not just stay simple and go with the LS 3.9 and custom parts. It would seem like less work and similar results.
Edit: Nevermind, I just reread post #23.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
It's my goal to get an engine and trans setting, ready to go, and then in a matter of just two-three days, put it in and have it running. If I were to pull the original engine out, it would surely take several weeks to machine and assemble---and then dyno---the original package. It IS my daily driver.
KenS from Ben's Place
KenS from Ben's Place
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
You plan to build the 4.0 and then swap it in and get it running in N/A form before TT'ing it later on? I would assume so based upon your aforementioned 2-3 day timeframe.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Proposed progression---Turbo Installation
No question of that. Getting the engine in and running properly is enough of a job in itself, without getting involved with the turbo package. Tom Caimotto, my Crew Chief, is in favor of running at Maxton at least once with the new engine and 200-300 HP of methanol/nitrous oxide. That should set my E/FCC record high enough to have it stay 'tops' for years. Then we'll hang the turbos and move to E/BFCC. If there's time to get the whole job accomplished before the first meet, we'll remove the turbos to make the 'fuel only' runs.
KenS from Ben's Place
No question of that. Getting the engine in and running properly is enough of a job in itself, without getting involved with the turbo package. Tom Caimotto, my Crew Chief, is in favor of running at Maxton at least once with the new engine and 200-300 HP of methanol/nitrous oxide. That should set my E/FCC record high enough to have it stay 'tops' for years. Then we'll hang the turbos and move to E/BFCC. If there's time to get the whole job accomplished before the first meet, we'll remove the turbos to make the 'fuel only' runs.
KenS from Ben's Place
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Exposed turbo inlet solution
I've noticed in other places on the forum a continuing concern regarding the exposure of the intake/filter under the car. My own approach is simple---extend the air intake up into the trunk, and create a plenum in the space directly behind the wheel house. That area will be covered with a Dzus-fastened panel, for ease of access and the air intake will be accomodated by a NACA duct through the quarter panel. I'll post photos as this develops over the winter.
KenS from Ben's Place
I've noticed in other places on the forum a continuing concern regarding the exposure of the intake/filter under the car. My own approach is simple---extend the air intake up into the trunk, and create a plenum in the space directly behind the wheel house. That area will be covered with a Dzus-fastened panel, for ease of access and the air intake will be accomodated by a NACA duct through the quarter panel. I'll post photos as this develops over the winter.
KenS from Ben's Place
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Ken. That is an approach that other people into the full racing scene have done to keep things unexposed. Honestly, even when located under the car the filters will be just fine for 99% of most peoples use.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Intakes and Filters in the Trunk
I have no doubt that you're correct. And I probably wouldn't do it myself except that I really do drive the car year 'round and the weather here in the Metro Detroit area is surely about the same as it is where you are. In addition, to tell the truth, although I only run the sponsor panels on the doors during the race trips, I get a kick out of the classic double-takes I can see from the corner of my eye when stopped at a light. Little 'hints' such as hood pins and NACA ducts should only increase the reactions. And the studied subsequent 'looking-the-other-way' from the ricer kids with their six inch exhaust outlet only makes it better.
On another note, my friend Ben suggested that I tell you that I only turn on the spray after going into third gear at Maxton. And since I'm already doing over 100 MPH by that time, I purposely don't purge the 'spray' line so as to get a softer 'hit'. That technique, along with the unbelievable bite of the 245/45 ZR18 Michelin P-2s, means that I have no traction problems with an over 100 HP spray package. We'll see what happens next season---I'm going to use a 200 HP shot and start it at 3K in first.
KenS from Ben's Place.
I have no doubt that you're correct. And I probably wouldn't do it myself except that I really do drive the car year 'round and the weather here in the Metro Detroit area is surely about the same as it is where you are. In addition, to tell the truth, although I only run the sponsor panels on the doors during the race trips, I get a kick out of the classic double-takes I can see from the corner of my eye when stopped at a light. Little 'hints' such as hood pins and NACA ducts should only increase the reactions. And the studied subsequent 'looking-the-other-way' from the ricer kids with their six inch exhaust outlet only makes it better.
On another note, my friend Ben suggested that I tell you that I only turn on the spray after going into third gear at Maxton. And since I'm already doing over 100 MPH by that time, I purposely don't purge the 'spray' line so as to get a softer 'hit'. That technique, along with the unbelievable bite of the 245/45 ZR18 Michelin P-2s, means that I have no traction problems with an over 100 HP spray package. We'll see what happens next season---I'm going to use a 200 HP shot and start it at 3K in first.
KenS from Ben's Place.
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
I have no doubt that you're correct. And I probably wouldn't do it myself except that I really do drive the car year 'round and the weather here in the Metro Detroit area is surely about the same as it is where you are. In addition, to tell the truth, although I only run the sponsor panels on the doors during the race trips, I get a kick out of the classic double-takes I can see from the corner of my eye when stopped at a light. Little 'hints' such as hood pins and NACA ducts should only increase the reactions. And the studied subsequent 'looking-the-other-way' from the ricer kids with their six inch exhaust outlet only makes it better.
On another note, my friend Ben suggested that I tell you that I only turn on the spray after going into third gear at Maxton. And since I'm already doing over 100 MPH by that time, I purposely don't purge the 'spray' line so as to get a softer 'hit'. That technique, along with the unbelievable bite of the 245/45 ZR18 Michelin P-2s, means that I have no traction problems with an over 100 HP spray package. We'll see what happens next season---I'm going to use a 200 HP shot and start it at 3K in first.
KenS from Ben's Place.
Damn, that will be a world of difference for you when you spray in the earlier gears. I hear you on the no purge for a softer hit.
What kind of control are you running? The reason I bring this up is because there are some really nice progressive controllers on the market today for pretty cheap. FJO Racing makes one that goes for $206. I used an FJO controller for over a year with the 100wetshot in the LS and I must say that it is by far the best piece of electronic racing equipment I have picked up for the price. It can control two totally separate stages either by rpm or time. Has full 0-100% shot ramping for both stages and also has a first gear lockout mode that would be nice if you wanted to do that. Go HERE if you want more info.
Even with those good tires expect to have some traction issues when spraying that 100 wetshot in first gear if you still have the open rear diff. Even when I started at 25% of the shot at 3,000rpms I was still ripping the tires off while going down the track. Obviously I had different tires for my runs, but I still belieive you will run into traction issues if you have an open rear diff and spraying the full 100shot right off 3k. Wet hits HARD!
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Nitrous Oxide Use
I'm sure you're right about the difference between a soft hit and a slam. When I first used a spray system, in the late '70s, I simply used a full throttle switch. I had to learn to 'feather' the pedal to not bring in the juice until I had the car moving. The car was a late '70s Mustang that was also turbo'd and used DCOE Weber carburetion. The fogger nozzles were placed just below the draw-through lay-out. It was always great fun to surprise 'vettes, etc. Since a drag-style launch is un-necessary in land-speed racing, what small thought I'd given the matter inclined me to the same technique.
Thank you for bringing the new electronics to my attention. I'll probably have to use some such gizmo, depending on whether I find it necessary to use an aftermarket ECU. I'm, at present, in a three-way exploration with SCT and a local tuner. I'm told that it's possible to do things with the factory electronics that aren't fully accessible with the consumer version of the Xcalibrator.
My greatest problem is that I'm going in so many ways at the same time. I need to get the engine together and a transmission upgraded. If I've gone far enough to have a clear path concerning the power adders when I have the engine ready to go in I'll be doing good.
And, of course, the work on the LS is really designed to get me up to speed knowledge and experience-wise. I need to have the LS done in the spring so I can race it while starting the build on the true race-car. I also have on-going work at Ben's Place.
KenS from Ben's Place
I'm sure you're right about the difference between a soft hit and a slam. When I first used a spray system, in the late '70s, I simply used a full throttle switch. I had to learn to 'feather' the pedal to not bring in the juice until I had the car moving. The car was a late '70s Mustang that was also turbo'd and used DCOE Weber carburetion. The fogger nozzles were placed just below the draw-through lay-out. It was always great fun to surprise 'vettes, etc. Since a drag-style launch is un-necessary in land-speed racing, what small thought I'd given the matter inclined me to the same technique.
Thank you for bringing the new electronics to my attention. I'll probably have to use some such gizmo, depending on whether I find it necessary to use an aftermarket ECU. I'm, at present, in a three-way exploration with SCT and a local tuner. I'm told that it's possible to do things with the factory electronics that aren't fully accessible with the consumer version of the Xcalibrator.
My greatest problem is that I'm going in so many ways at the same time. I need to get the engine together and a transmission upgraded. If I've gone far enough to have a clear path concerning the power adders when I have the engine ready to go in I'll be doing good.
And, of course, the work on the LS is really designed to get me up to speed knowledge and experience-wise. I need to have the LS done in the spring so I can race it while starting the build on the true race-car. I also have on-going work at Ben's Place.
KenS from Ben's Place
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Aluminium engine re-visited
In an earlier comment, there was a question about the aluminium parts in the 4.0 and, I'm sure, the 3.9 for that matter. I had occasion to carry the block across the yard to put in the back of the truck this afternoon. It's just a bare block at present, and is partially cleaned and going to be boiled out so that it's surgically sanitary. The water pump mount sticks up at the front top---see the great photos in the supercharger thread---and I simply hooked fingers two and three through this hole and carried it with no trouble. It probably weighs in the forty-fifty pound range. I don't suppose I'd want to walk down to the store with it that way, but this was simply from the garage to the truck in the drive.
Everything I see about this engine shows the race-type thinking that's very much part of the design. I'm walking around with a giant smile!
KenS from Ben's Place
In an earlier comment, there was a question about the aluminium parts in the 4.0 and, I'm sure, the 3.9 for that matter. I had occasion to carry the block across the yard to put in the back of the truck this afternoon. It's just a bare block at present, and is partially cleaned and going to be boiled out so that it's surgically sanitary. The water pump mount sticks up at the front top---see the great photos in the supercharger thread---and I simply hooked fingers two and three through this hole and carried it with no trouble. It probably weighs in the forty-fifty pound range. I don't suppose I'd want to walk down to the store with it that way, but this was simply from the garage to the truck in the drive.
Everything I see about this engine shows the race-type thinking that's very much part of the design. I'm walking around with a giant smile!
KenS from Ben's Place
Jayce 1971
Active LVC Member
Daily Driver?
You are going to shoot a 200hp shot of NO2 into your daily driver? Hope that bus passes are cheap in the Detroit metro area. (just kiddin', man) Seriously, I think that it's amazing the way that nitrous has become just "accepted" as a performance booster. Though nitrous can still be a death sentence for engines, (check out Youtube for some awsome motor blowing nos shots), greater understanding of ignition timing and fuel requirements have made NO2 most common. Good luck on your engine swap and future runs. Keep us posted.
You are going to shoot a 200hp shot of NO2 into your daily driver?
Hope that bus passes are cheap in the Detroit metro area. (just kiddin', man) Seriously, I think that it's amazing the way that nitrous has become just "accepted" as a performance booster. Though nitrous can still be a death sentence for engines, (check out Youtube for some awsome motor blowing nos shots), greater understanding of ignition timing and fuel requirements have made NO2 most common. Good luck on your engine swap and future runs. Keep us posted.cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
200 Shot
My goal is to able to make 800 HP+ 'at will'. The unique thing about both N2O and turbocharging is that they are both 'demand'-type additions.
The engine itself is in process of being built in such a way as to be as strong as possible, but quite mild, as opposed to a rough classic hot rod build. The cam characteristics most useful for a turbo/nitrous combination move the lobe centers apart and focus on the exhaust side regarding both lift and duration. This makes for a smooth-running engine at low speed.
Making the engine strong will be accomplished by providing extra support for the main bearing girdle using steel straps, going to all titanium valves and other components, and having custom forged pistons and aluminium rods made. These components and practices should make it easy to safely rev to beyond 8K as necessary, and take the extra load that's being applied. One Maxton class record I'd like to take is now held by a turbo Porsche at 186 MPH. I want it.
Since I'm using methanol as fuel every time I turn on the N2O or go into boost, I'm not only adding power, I'm actually 'cushioning' the burning characteristics in the combustion chambers. The technical reasons why this is true would take several pages to post, so I won't do it here. Nonetheless, it's true. And all this, as applied to land speed racing, is giving me a learning experience that I want for the more serious race car that'll be built starting in the spring.
KenS from Ben's Place
(You may want to read Ben's books---some of this stuff is to be found in them, along with his other activities. Google bensplace.us for further info.)
My goal is to able to make 800 HP+ 'at will'. The unique thing about both N2O and turbocharging is that they are both 'demand'-type additions.
The engine itself is in process of being built in such a way as to be as strong as possible, but quite mild, as opposed to a rough classic hot rod build. The cam characteristics most useful for a turbo/nitrous combination move the lobe centers apart and focus on the exhaust side regarding both lift and duration. This makes for a smooth-running engine at low speed.
Making the engine strong will be accomplished by providing extra support for the main bearing girdle using steel straps, going to all titanium valves and other components, and having custom forged pistons and aluminium rods made. These components and practices should make it easy to safely rev to beyond 8K as necessary, and take the extra load that's being applied. One Maxton class record I'd like to take is now held by a turbo Porsche at 186 MPH. I want it.
Since I'm using methanol as fuel every time I turn on the N2O or go into boost, I'm not only adding power, I'm actually 'cushioning' the burning characteristics in the combustion chambers. The technical reasons why this is true would take several pages to post, so I won't do it here. Nonetheless, it's true. And all this, as applied to land speed racing, is giving me a learning experience that I want for the more serious race car that'll be built starting in the spring.
KenS from Ben's Place
(You may want to read Ben's books---some of this stuff is to be found in them, along with his other activities. Google bensplace.us for further info.)
Jayce 1971
Active LVC Member
Yup, split lobe cam shaft design has really come in. It makes sense, though. Getting rid of all the exhaust, and giving a little more duration to the exhaust valve, before bringing in more intake. I wish you the best of luck on the the jag engine build. Makes sense going that route. Wish I had the time and/or resources for REAL racing. Top speed is the only race worth running in my book. I will be watching your thread, especially when the speed season comes back into full swing. Good luck...Represent LS
MediumD
Dedicated LVC Member
Aluminum rods in a daily driver?
Can of worms opened...
Can of worms opened...
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Aluminium rods-additional info
Back in the early 'sixties the idea was fully developed that Al rods were 'race-only'. Advances in alloys and design have rendered that notion outdated. Originally, the problem was that, although the rod design had no problem with compression, the 'stretch' while going the other way would, after a time, pull the big end oval and cause a pinch at the parting line. This seems to be no longer true.
I've discussed the idea with several rod manufacturers, and none of them have any problem with using their products as I have in mind. Time will tell. Part of my confidence is based on the fact that the original failure scenario was caused by motoring down after a 1/4 mile run using a stick trans. With the automatic, this doesn't happen. I may well pull the engine at the end of next season and do a check.
KenS from Ben's Place
Back in the early 'sixties the idea was fully developed that Al rods were 'race-only'. Advances in alloys and design have rendered that notion outdated. Originally, the problem was that, although the rod design had no problem with compression, the 'stretch' while going the other way would, after a time, pull the big end oval and cause a pinch at the parting line. This seems to be no longer true.
I've discussed the idea with several rod manufacturers, and none of them have any problem with using their products as I have in mind. Time will tell. Part of my confidence is based on the fact that the original failure scenario was caused by motoring down after a 1/4 mile run using a stick trans. With the automatic, this doesn't happen. I may well pull the engine at the end of next season and do a check.
KenS from Ben's Place
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cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
High performance valve components
DOES ANYONE KNOW anything about getting 10 degree valve retainers and locks for the Lincoln, T-Bird, Jag engine? Got my heads back today, all nice and clean. It has been my intent to do a five angle Serdi job on the valves and seats and a little bit of blending and call it good. But the guys who run the shop say that they regularly get heads with the valve stems pulled through. Regular USA-type valves usually use seven degree retainers. HP stuff is often ten degrees and uses machined, hardened keepers---they won't pull through even with 500 pounds of spring pressure at full lift. Does anyone have any ideas?
KenS from Ben's Place
DOES ANYONE KNOW anything about getting 10 degree valve retainers and locks for the Lincoln, T-Bird, Jag engine? Got my heads back today, all nice and clean. It has been my intent to do a five angle Serdi job on the valves and seats and a little bit of blending and call it good. But the guys who run the shop say that they regularly get heads with the valve stems pulled through. Regular USA-type valves usually use seven degree retainers. HP stuff is often ten degrees and uses machined, hardened keepers---they won't pull through even with 500 pounds of spring pressure at full lift. Does anyone have any ideas?
KenS from Ben's Place
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Update
I've answered my own question by a more thorough round of questioning. The Ti valve manufacturer also makes not only retainers, but keepers too. So the whole package is available. Merry Christmas !
<Afterthought>
Cams are on their way to Competition Cams for a turbo/spray custom regrind. Block detailing is under way.
KenS from Ben's Place
I've answered my own question by a more thorough round of questioning. The Ti valve manufacturer also makes not only retainers, but keepers too. So the whole package is available. Merry Christmas !
<Afterthought>
Cams are on their way to Competition Cams for a turbo/spray custom regrind. Block detailing is under way.
KenS from Ben's Place
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
New Stuff !!
Merry Christmas !!
Santa delivered a NANO system to go with my spray. For those not familiar, it's used instead of a bottle heater. Keeps the bottle pressurized to an ideal 1000 PSI. And it's INSTANT instead of the heater taking as much as 15 minutes.
KenS from Ben's Place
Merry Christmas !!
Santa delivered a NANO system to go with my spray. For those not familiar, it's used instead of a bottle heater. Keeps the bottle pressurized to an ideal 1000 PSI. And it's INSTANT instead of the heater taking as much as 15 minutes.
KenS from Ben's Place
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Land Speed Update---
For those readers who've jumped over here because of interest in the turbo thread, and who haven't followed everything that's led to today's post, a few background comments would seem to be in order.
Using a mixture of Nitrous oxide and methanol, I've used my '02 LS to set two one-mile National Land Speed records. I did this using the otherwise stock LS 3.9 engine, to which I added one of the LSK intake packages and a cat-back system from Magnaflow. The records were set last October. The car now has 112 K miles on it.
I'm in process of building a four litre Jag engine to replace the 3.9. Because I'm working with one of the Turbo Manufacturers to increase the available horsepower (torque) I'm focusing on building a mild-running engine that has a 'hell-for-strong' bottom end and titanium valvetrain. The combination of two turbos and the existing NX 'Pro' spray system (NX sponsor me) should make my goal of 'beyond 800 HP' reasonably easy to attain. ('Ricers' can count on 1K or more HP from a turbo'd 'Toy' six and use it on the street---there is a factory 5 litre version of our V-8 that supplies 550 HP---NA.)
I'm in process of gathering parts at present. The core engine is torn-down and cleaned. It's single-digits cold at night here in Detroit so I'm not in any real hurry right now. The salamander warms my workshop just fine, but it's almighty noisy.
Further information will be available here or in the pages of one of the Primedia publications for which I'm a writer, or both.
Your comments and questions are welcome!
KenS from Ben's Place
For those readers who've jumped over here because of interest in the turbo thread, and who haven't followed everything that's led to today's post, a few background comments would seem to be in order.
Using a mixture of Nitrous oxide and methanol, I've used my '02 LS to set two one-mile National Land Speed records. I did this using the otherwise stock LS 3.9 engine, to which I added one of the LSK intake packages and a cat-back system from Magnaflow. The records were set last October. The car now has 112 K miles on it.
I'm in process of building a four litre Jag engine to replace the 3.9. Because I'm working with one of the Turbo Manufacturers to increase the available horsepower (torque) I'm focusing on building a mild-running engine that has a 'hell-for-strong' bottom end and titanium valvetrain. The combination of two turbos and the existing NX 'Pro' spray system (NX sponsor me) should make my goal of 'beyond 800 HP' reasonably easy to attain. ('Ricers' can count on 1K or more HP from a turbo'd 'Toy' six and use it on the street---there is a factory 5 litre version of our V-8 that supplies 550 HP---NA.)
I'm in process of gathering parts at present. The core engine is torn-down and cleaned. It's single-digits cold at night here in Detroit so I'm not in any real hurry right now. The salamander warms my workshop just fine, but it's almighty noisy.
Further information will be available here or in the pages of one of the Primedia publications for which I'm a writer, or both.
Your comments and questions are welcome!
KenS from Ben's Place
AndrewCoja
Well-Known LVC Member
I'd love to see a 1K HP LS. Are you going to do any quarter mile runs at all? Would be funny to see some guy with his muscle car get smoked by this.