Land Speed LS

Methanol as a primary/secondary fuel

As a primary fuel for an internal combustion engine, methanol has both drawbacks and benefits.
Benefits-
1. Contains oxygen as part of the molecule; therefore helps support its own combustion.
2. Heat of vaporization is such that the combustion process is quite efficient.
3. Readily created by distillation of cellulose/plants.

Drawbacks-
1. Quite corrosive
2. Hygroscopic; easily contaminated by moisture from the atmosphere
3. Has less caloric content than equal amount of gasoline; therefore requires more volume as fuel to do equivalent work.
4. Poisonous; dangerous to drink or even to inhale.

Due to benefits #1&2, a spraying of methanol into the incoming airstream of an internal combustion engine will both cool and enrich. Properly done, such a spray will obviate the necessity of an intercooling structure in the intake tract.

There's lots of room for discussion here!

KenS from Ben's Place
 
so by spraying it into the intake like you said in that last paragraph its a secondary fuel used in conjunction with gasoline similar to nitrous?
 
Methanol as Fuel

SPSully said:
so by spraying it into the intake like you said in that last paragraph its a secondary fuel used in conjunction with gasoline similar to nitrous?
Click to expand...

In a word---Yes. However, nitrous oxide isn't a fuel at all; it takes part in the combustion process as a source of O2. Methanol is both fuel and oxygen source.
KS

Edit to add---Methanol works great as a secondary fuel---in part because it can be run very rich; approaching 4:1, because it carries much of its own O2.
KS
 
Yeah but it has a really crappy BTU density and is nasty corrosive. However it does have an evaporation point in the usable range its really good at using latent heat of evaporation to pull heat out of the intake charge. I also disagree with the statement "it carries its own oxygen" it doesn't, just only really reacts on the CH3-OH bond so it doesn't need as much oxidizer.
 
Are you suggesting that the oxygen in the OH radical doesn't participate in the combustion process? Going back to my freshman chemistry...

KS
'BTU density' is a non-starter because of the very wide power window available with methanol. We aren't trying for miserliness in fuel use when running methanol. See #151 above. My methanol delivery system is all teflon and 321 stainless so corrosion isn't a factor. KS (2xAB and a PhD over the years)
 
Well it has to combine with something as you don't have (much) free OH molecules flying out of the process so yes it does contribute to the combustion process. Methanol is acidic so its giving up hydrogen under OIL-RIG which means your primary reaction is the free oxygen oxidizing the carbon of the methyl group. I guess you could say that "it brings its own oxygen" since its only a single oxidation reaction instead of the double but that means you have lower energy... hense the BTU density comment. This leads into your mass flow rates and the need to increase it in order to extract the same amount of energy of the reaction.

Your specific system is a good example of how to properly build one but does not negate the comment that it is corrossive and requires planning to ensure the longevity of the components involved, particularlly the pump and valves.
 
We're absolutely in agreement! Luckily you can run VERY rich so there's room to make more power even though it isn't as efficient!
KS
 
yeah hi.... I barely passed high school pysics and skipped chemistry.... hows this work? LMAO! No seriosuly though, the needing less oxygen (wether it brings it or just requires less) makes for rich AFRs. Why then, or should I say how then does it help cushion the motor to boost and nitrous?
 
Cools the intake charge and provides extra fuel to compensate for the increased oxidizer in the N2O. It also adds some octane rating to the mixture but how much depends on how heavy you are injecting it.

Its better to think in Lambda not in Air to Fuel ratio. Lambda is the ratio of actual air to fuel ratio over stochiometric (that is chemically balanced and perfect reaction ratio) and applies regardless of fuel. Being at 1 Lamba means you are dead on regardless if its pump gas, E85, methanol, or JP8 though the actual air fuel ratio will be different for each. O2 sensors actually measure the free oxygen in the exhaust stream and measure lambda which is then converted back into Air to Fuel based on the stochiometric ratio of the given fuel.
 
If you're doing any serious messing around in this area, you virtually have to have an Innovate or equivalent. Then if you start 'rich', (fuel heavy) and watch your MPH and your readout, you should be as far from engine breakage as possible.
KS
 
Car-type N2O has an agent in it to make it stink so that people won't breathe it. There was a racer some years ago who was using it instead of sleeping pills. He accidentally killed himself. Suppliers very quickly put in the 'de-naturing' agent to forestall govt. intervention.
KS
 
Sorry to just dive in, and I have only read the last two pages, but my fascination has grown big time as I have been a fan of using methanol for high boost apps for years...
you mentioned running about 30psi, and I saw remarks about the piston swap but did not see what kind of CR you will be at at the end of the day....
 
after reading through the entire thread lst night, ill feild the quetion for him. the bore stroke and even the shape of the pistons down to the reliefs are the same as the stock jag motor. i dont know the jags comp ratio, but i know its gotta be close to ours
 
Land Speed Records

This last weekend was the latest ECTA meet at Maxton, NC. I'm happy to say that both the Ben's Place Racing Team National Records are still in place! :) We'll be attempting to raise both and also take at least one more class, but not until the end of the summer.
KS
 
Go to the ECTA website and order a rule book. That'll help you figure out what class to run and the changes---mostly safety---that you'll have to make. Pay entry fee and show up.
KS

Call me!
 
Input requested

I'll be putting my shortblock together in the near future, and that means, thinking ahead, that the engine installation is not too far in the future. I have access to a hoist, making it possible to pull from underneath. But it's forty miles from here, complicating the logistics. I'm considering ramps for some extra clearance, and then lowering the engine by using my cherrypicker. I could then lift the front of the car enough to clear the engine on the floor. Has anyone used this procedure? Any suggestions? Thanx!!
KS
 
yep - that's what several people have done that don't have the lift in there DIYer garage. That or pulling most of the front-clip off the car to yank the engine out the top of the engine bay.
 
Quik LS said:
yep - that's what several people have done that don't have the lift in there DIYer garage. That or pulling most of the front-clip off the car to yank the engine out the top of the engine bay.
Click to expand...


its really not to hard to pull these engines. remove the strut brace, unplug all the wires,remove the fan, shroud, accessories, unbolt the tranny and pull that baby. it was alot easier than i thought. u can pull one out in one day and put one back in the next. takes me 5 hours total to install an engine and drive off in mine. ive had alot of practice. lol.

does that first post say 140.1 is a record in one of these? seems like it should be higher
 
E/F CC Land Speed Record

does that first post say 140.1 is a record in one of these? seems like it should be higher[/QUOTE]

140.106 MPH---standing start, measured mile!;) Started the spray when I shifted into third gear. Come on out and let's play!!!
KS

For an idea of what's involved, go to the FordFE website and click on the O/T entry regarding shifting to fifth. Watch the vimeo video available there and experience a run---3 miles---that goes 216. That car, a 500 HP Cobra Daytona, is about 20 MPH faster in the mile than our LS. Maxton NC, home of the ECTA, is about 1000 miles closer to home than B'ville. And we run on concrete instead of salt. But my license is good at B'ville. ks
 
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