Let's Talk About Illegal Aliens.

[caddy dhs]

Wow, nicely presented argument but theres one problem, you said that the number of illegals that are working toward becoming legal are in the minority. Well consider the fact that the only way they can become legal is through marriage and this is no suprise. That is why I said we need a program that would legalize these people if they meet certain requirements. Like I said, slap these people with a 2-3k fine and back taxes. At least this way they could have another option and wouldnt have to resort to marriage to get documents. This would also change the number of illegals sending money over the border, because more would become contributing members of our society.

 

[eL eS]

Wow, nicely presented argument but theres one problem, you said that the number of illegals that are working toward becoming legal are in the minority. Well consider the fact that the only way they can become legal is through marriage and this is no suprise. That is why I said we need a program that would legalize these people if they meet certain requirements. Like I said, slap these people with a 2-3k fine and back taxes. At least this way they could have another option and wouldnt have to resort to marriage to get documents. This would also change the number of illegals sending money over the border, because more would become contributing members of our society.

sounds reasonable.

 

[Moby and Lucille]

Wow, nicely presented argument but theres one problem, you said that the number of illegals that are working toward becoming legal are in the minority. Well consider the fact that the only way they can become legal is through marriage and this is no suprise. That is why I said we need a program that would legalize these people if they meet certain requirements. Like I said, slap these people with a 2-3k fine and back taxes. At least this way they could have another option and wouldnt have to resort to marriage to get documents. This would also change the number of illegals sending money over the border, because more would become contributing members of our society.

sounds reasonable.

:I and not only do :I but :iconcur:

But as I opened up my monster post with, I'm not as well versed as some here on the issue, or parts of it, at least. And I was under the impression that there were other ways to become legal. To become a citizen. This new truth (new to me, anyway) doesn't really change my stance on anything, it just strengthens some and weakens some to accomodate the new data. It means that a lesser percentage than I thought are working to become legal. That only makes me madder on the issue than I was. It makes me more fervent on some things, but doesn't really reverse any decisions.

But your solution does sound good. You do realise that many of the illegals that are given the option to stay will still leave anyway under that progran. A lot of them will no longer have a purpose here if they can't return to mexico as a rich mexican citizen . And a lot may not be able to afford the 2k, 3k penalty, unless, of course, the government is willing to take installements. But a system like that would be nice. It'd keep the people who would do their best to do their part to rebuild america, and eliminate those who played a major part is dragging it down.

The only other thing we'd need to keep it effective, would be effective border control, so those planted back on their butts in mexico would not be able to just scuttle on over. of course, if not by land then by sea. I wonder what would happen to the entire east and west coast if the land border was succesfully blocked.

Thank for the compliments on the last post, guys!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Most of the people posting on this subject(especially the last person posting) all have some sort of plan to smooth over the immigration problem by allowing some to stay if they"pay".
I say horse:q:q:q:q.
Stem the flow so that no more are able to get here, and my get tough policy of shoot to kill, is the only thing that will realistically work.
These illegals are just like cochroaches.
Kill enough of them and the news spreads like wildfire.
Our government has been far to linient with these law breakers.
Kill enough of them at the border, and the rest will get the messageto stay home.
If I were a governor in any of the southern border states, the national guard would already be there in force, and shooting to kill.

 

[Vitas]

Most of the people posting on this subject(especially the last person posting) all have some sort of plan to smooth over the immigration problem.

So, how did you get here?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Vitas, you need to be a little more specific with your question.
Do you mean how did I arrive at this thread or, how did I get to this country?
Bob.

 

[Vitas]

Vitas, you need to be a little more specific with your question.
Do you mean how did I arrive at this thread or, how did I get to this country?
Bob.

Please figure it out for yourself.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well as for being here in this country, I was born in Massachusetts and both my parents were citizens at the time of my birth.
As for being included in this thread, I usually have something to say if the subject matter is controversal.
Bob.

 

[Moby and Lucille]

C'Mon, Bob. You know what he's trying to say. We've all done a pretty good job so far of not getting heated and petty on a subject that just invites blood boiling. Lets not ruin that now.

I'm not sure I'm republican enough to get behind playing shoot em up, but I'm definitely not democrat enough to say shut up and eat your burrito. Oh, wait, wait, excuse me, callate y comerte su burrito! Ole! (what was I thinking?!)

Letting the "cockroaches" just run and ruin our country is absolutely not an option, I agree, but lets not be too hasty to drop the bug bomb or call in the orkin man. Some of these people want to be legal, and some of these people will be valuable contributors to this country, many are making it worse, sure, but some would make it better. We need to find a way to get the bad out without kicking out the good, however even the good did a wrong to get here, so they should be fined, and then be allowed to contribute.

What's so wrong with that, or are you just itching to use the can of bug spray you've been eyeballing for the past 50 years? Remember Bob, that there was once upon a time, a guy who wanted to remove an entire group of people by violence. Yeah, I think he was from Germany or something like that.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

"M and L", Letting those who are already here, stay, is somewhat of a forgone conclusion.
It would be just about impossible to round them up and send them back.
If there were a way to do it, I would certainly endorse it but, that is wishful thinking.
What bothers me mostly is the fact that my dad went through all the proper chanels, as did millions of others, to enter this country legally and, It really burns my ass to see these low lifes get here by unlawful means, only to be rewarded by doing so.
It makes a mochary of our laws and justice system, let alone the drain on millions of law abiding tax payers.
At this point, it is more important to stop the flow into this country than it is to deal with the ones who are already here.
I am not in favor of any amnesty programs for those here however, because that only creates an atmosphere for more to enter the country illegally.
I am a stonch beliver in getting tough at the border and if it takes an armed national guard with orders to shoot to kill, then so be it.
I see nothing on the horizon being offered to stop the illegal flow from our southern border.
Getting tough is not an option, it is now a necessity.
Bob.

 

[Vitas]

Well as for being here in this country, I was born in Massachusetts and both my parents were citizens at the time of my birth.
As for being included in this thread, I usually have something to say if the subject matter is controversal.
Bob.

I was also born in Massachusetts.

My parents came over on the boat in 1950, sponsored.

I remember in the 1999-2000 period when people willing to work showed up here and did the job. At a time when workers could not be found.

Are you suggesting that we simply used them, and now ship them back?

 

[Moby and Lucille]

Getting tough is not an option, it is now a necessity.
Bob.

You may be right. But I just hate the idea of killing anyone who's not trying to kill us. (some would argue they are, I know.) I guess I'm not willing to back up a shoot em up program until I'm sure that all other alternatives have been exhausted. And I'm not quite sure we've gotten to that point. I just hate killing. It may come to it, but I still think it's too soon. Maybe it's just that little guy in my coat pocket that is the liberal in me piping up, but there's just got to be another way.

 

[Vitas]

But I just hate the idea of killing anyone who's not trying to kill us.

Who said they were trying to kill us?

 

[Moby and Lucille]

Who said they were trying to kill us?

I never said that they were trying to kill us, what I said was "someone who's -not- trying to kill us." What I meant by the "some may say they are" bit was the idea that they're dragging us down and slowly destroying our country, but even then, that makes the "killing us" comment figurative and not literal.

 

[Vitas]

Off the wall comment:

Sometimes they were there when we needed them.

 

[caddy dhs]

Letting the "cockroaches" just run and ruin our country is absolutely not an option, I agree, but lets not be too hasty to drop the bug bomb or call in the orkin man. Some of these people want to be legal, and some of these people will be valuable contributors to this country, many are making it worse, sure, but some would make it better. We need to find a way to get the bad out without kicking out the good, however even the good did a wrong to get here, so they should be fined, and then be allowed to contribute.

Good point.

As far as border control goes, I don't think theres a need to turn the border into a killing zone. Whos going to endorse a policy like that anyway? What we need is one or two highly publicized shootings so the word goes out that they will be shot if they try to cross. There are ways to secure the border, but it's going to take a lot more money. Another way to limit immigration would be to really go after the employers of these people.

 

[barry2952]

Bob,

I would agree that we need strong borders. I'd even go for extreme enforcement. Our resources are ill spent on non-contributing members of society. A large problem I see is that a lot of illegals are part of the underground "cash economy" that is doing more to rob this country than all the illegals combined. Cash=No income tax. No income tax=no replentishment of consumed resources. Illegals and tax cheats are a double whammy to our pocket books.

A huge amount of that problem would go away with a National Sales Tax. The NST would be paid on only what you spend. Cash would no longer be king as you would retain the right to spend it, or save it. Your choice. Illegals would then be paying their fair share.

The State tax collectors in Michigan are very efficient. They just broke up a group of related Chinese restaurant owners who were significantly underreporting their income, fraudulantly reducing their tax liability and pocketing our tax dollars. I would vote for much stronger tax collection guidelines and enforcement for merchants and reducing the reporting burden of the people. No tax returns. No IRS.

It wouldn't matter how you got your money. You could be a prostitute or preacher, both relying on cash donations. You could be a tradesman who takes cash and it wouldn't matter where you got your money from. Besides, I don't think it's the government's business to know where I get my money as long as I pay my fair share.

That's what this rant is all about, contributing your fair share to society.

 

[mespock]

Well what more can I say!

 

[eL eS]

I seen a report on the enws today that was interesting. Seems a California company has developed a robotic orange picker. The cost is just over 300k Dollars. If farmers can be lured to this product Americans will score some high tech jobs and some illegals will loose some. It can work longer and through harsh conditions, has sensors to choose the fruit at the right time and is more efficient. The tide could be changing.

 

[rrich]

Raises

Have u ever read "The peter principle"? explained a lot 2 me.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Never heard of the peter principal.
What is it?
Could you give a little information about it without going into a lot of detail?
Bob.

 

[joshluvsla]

All of this emphasis on illegal immigrants from the South what about all of those coming from Europe? And Asia? what about them sucking our country dry? No mention of them ... sounds like a lot of you are focusing on Latinos...i am a Los Angeles County Public Social Worker.... i deal with determining eligibility for participants who apply for foodstamps, medical etc. i can tell you that most of the people applying are from different ethnic backgrounds ... my point is this most of the "illegal Latino immigrants who apply are only eligible for benefits because they have linkage thru their US BORN CHILDREN...now these illegal participants are working people who most of the time have two jobs and are getting paid peanuts. these people come embarrassed when they come and ask for benefits, most of the time the women come by themselves, and i tell them that their husbands of boyfriends need to come in to get fingerprinted and they tell me that they don't know that they are here. they have to much pride to go ask for help. they still end up coming in, not to happy. we then have Asian immigrants who have businesses here in the US and are still asking for public assistance they lie on their income taxes and claim little profit, and what do i have to do...give them the freaking stamps or medi-cal ... they lie all over the application and still manage to get the benefits.. now that's not right and i cant do anything about it its their word ... then we have US Citizen participants no particular race, who are not working, ask for help, don't comply with the workfare requirements and keep leeching on the public assistance money. they have attitudes and act like we owe them something ... get off your asses and work for that $6.75 at mcdonalds or something... i agree that there should be some type of work program for the immigrants ... that way they can get legal licenses, which turns out to be profitable for the government if you think about it ... they would pay for car insurance (no more uninsured motorist) they would pay their taxes..ect

 

[joshluvsla]

Bob,

I would agree that we need strong borders. I'd even go for extreme enforcement. Our resources are ill spent on non-contributing members of society. A large problem I see is that a lot of illegals are part of the underground "cash economy" that is doing more to rob this country than all the illegals combined. Cash=No income tax. No income tax=no replentishment of consumed resources. Illegals and tax cheats are a double whammy to our pocket books.

A huge amount of that problem would go away with a National Sales Tax. The NST would be paid on only what you spend. Cash would no longer be king as you would retain the right to spend it, or save it. Your choice. Illegals would then be paying their fair share.

The State tax collectors in Michigan are very efficient. They just broke up a group of related Chinese restaurant owners who were significantly underreporting their income, fraudulantly reducing their tax liability and pocketing our tax dollars. I would vote for much stronger tax collection guidelines and enforcement for merchants and reducing the reporting burden of the people. No tax returns. No IRS.

It wouldn't matter how you got your money. You could be a prostitute or preacher, both relying on cash donations. You could be a tradesman who takes cash and it wouldn't matter where you got your money from. Besides, I don't think it's the government's business to know where I get my money as long as I pay my fair share.

That's what this rant is all about, contributing your fair share to society.

i always thought that would be a good idea... question? why do we in essence pay double taxes? we get our wages taxed ( federal and state) then we pay state taxes on goods we purchase... then we still need to pay IRS some more?