Lincoln LS AdvanceTrac question?

[AmsterDutch]

I have a question about my initial start up when temps are below zero? My LS will have the AdvanceTrac and ABS light ON up on the dash when initially starting the car on really cold mornings/days...I allow it to warm up for 10-15 minutes, If I drive it nothing is wrong with brakes and AdvanceTrac.... but I found to get the light to go off, all I have to do is turn the car off after its warmed up then start it up again and the light doesn't stay on it disappears like it should after 2-3 seconds of initial start up...I saw a thread a few weeks back about this I think and the guy who posted the thread said it was a sign of a weak battery...is this true? Is my battery weak and that's the reason this is happening? Like I said it only happens when temps are below zero and this happens even with my battery warmer plugged in...any thoughts or ideas are appreciated why this happens ...not worried just curious why this is happening...Here is the thread about battery related issues

"The cold temperatures in the Chicago area caused electrical issues related to the battery, such as parking brake service notification and alarm indicator on dash flashing. Replaced battery with Motorcraft OEM model. The failed battery was installed on 10-9-2009, so it still is within its 37-100 months pro-rated charge warranty - by 1 month."

 

[LSV8FAN]

I didn't mention that the last problem I had after the various electrical issues. My wife went shopping and the car didn't crank/start once she wanted to come back home; I had to go give the car a battery jump. I called my dealer to take the car in for an electrical check and new battery the next morning and, after sitting in the garage all night, the car wouldn't crank either and I had to jump it. The electrical system checked out good (except for the battery) and no more issue after the new battery was installed.

 

[joegr]

The ABS system (including AdvanceTrac) is not really related to the electronic parking brake at all. I think you have some other marginal problem with your ABS system. While you may believe that everything is okay, the ABS and AdvanceTrac is all disabled while those lights are on. If you get into any situation that calls for either (while the light is on), you won't have it and you may regret it.
It's a complicated system, and just guessing at it is not likely to work. You need to use a code scanner that can read the ABS codes. The codes that are logged won't tell you exactly what is wrong, but they will tell you where to look and what testing you need to do.

 

[AmsterDutch]

The ABS system (including AdvanceTrac) is not really related to the electronic parking brake at all. I think you have some other marginal problem with your ABS system. While you may believe that everything is okay, the ABS and AdvanceTrac is all disabled while those lights are on. If you get into any situation that calls for either (while the light is on), you won't have it and you may regret it.
It's a complicated system, and just guessing at it is not likely to work. You need to use a code scanner that can read the ABS codes. The codes that are logged won't tell you exactly what is wrong, but they will tell you where to look and what testing you need to do.

Thats good to know...Everything seemed fine when driving with those lights on but I didn't drive the car very far with them on...instead I have opted to turn the car off and then restart it so the lights would go off...when I continue to drive after the lights go off and hit ice or spin wheels on snow/ice the AdvanceTrac light flashes because it's working ...brakes have never been better since flushing my brake lines and replaces all pads but your right ....I will see what codes it's throwing out just to be sure there isn't something wrong with my AdvanceTrac or ABS system...better safe than sorry... especially when it comes to brakes

 

[joegr]

...I will see what codes it's throwing out just to be sure there isn't something wrong with my AdvanceTrac or ABS system...

Oh, there's zero doubt that there is something wrong. The operation you describe (lights on at first start when cold) is not at all normal. Neither of mine do this, and I don't know of anyone else's that does either.

 

[AmsterDutch]

Oh, there's zero doubt that there is something wrong. The operation you describe (lights on at first start when cold) is not at all normal. Neither of mine do this, and I don't know of anyone else's that does either.

I just brought the LS in the garage and upon inspection I saw the brake fluid was well low in the brake fluid reservoir...just filled it to max and will be keeping an eye on it closely along with finding out what codes the ABS is throwing out...I'm curious now that the reservoir is on max if it will stay there and/or the AdvanceTrac and ABS light will come on now? Thanks again for the info!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

brakes have never been better since flushing my brake lines

I just brought the LS in the garage and upon inspection I saw the brake fluid was well low in the brake fluid reservoir

Is it possible that you introduced some air into the system somehow without realizing it??? Not sure if the LS is the same as other Ford vehicles of that era... but some require a special scan tool to open the solenoids in the ABS actuator. Otherwise all of the air will not be bled out. Ford only charges around $100 for a full system pressure bleed... and they have the tool to open the solenoids in the ABS actuator, (again... if it's the same system I have worked on in the past).

Also...

Is it possible that you bumped something electrical while bleeding the brakes? Check your wheel speed sensors for bad connections or "tweaked" wires. You might want to go through all of the electrical connecors for the brake system. Unplug and check for corrosion... and plug back in.

but I found to get the light to go off, all I have to do is turn the car off after its warmed up then start it up again and the light doesn't stay on it disappears like it should after 2-3 seconds of initial start up

It seems a bit odd that the symptoms go away after the car warms up. To me this seems like a bad connection... that re-connects with some heat. At the temps you describe,,, it may only take a few degrees of warmth for plastic and copper to "move" enough to re-connect. My guess is that the probelm is in somewhat close proximity to the engine and/or cooling system parts.

Also...

IIRC,,, Joe confirmed sometime way back... that a defective DCCV can cause false codes for either the parking brake, advance trac, or ABS. Don't remember which though, (he'll be back).

I'd start with checking electrical connections first.

 

[AmsterDutch]

Is it possible that you introduced some air into the system somehow without realizing it??? Not sure if the LS is the same as other Ford vehicles of that era... but some require a special scan tool to open the solenoids in the ABS actuator. Otherwise all of the air will not be bled out. Ford only charges around $100 for a full system pressure bleed... and they have the tool to open the solenoids in the ABS actuator, (again... if it's the same system I have worked on in the past).

Also...

Is it possible that you bumped something electrical while bleeding the brakes? Check your wheel speed sensors for bad connections or "tweaked" wires. You might want to go through all of the electrical connecors for the brake system. Unplug and check for corrosion... and plug back in.





It seems a bit odd that the symptoms go away after the car warms up. To me this seems like a bad connection... that re-connects with some heat. At the temps you describe,,, it may only take a few degrees of warmth for plastic and copper to "move" enough to re-connect. My guess is that the probelm is in somewhat close proximity to the engine and/or cooling system parts.

Also...

IIRC,,, Joe confirmed sometime way back... that a defective DCCV can cause false codes for either the parking brake, advance trac, or ABS. Don't remember which though, (he'll be back).

I'd start with checking electrical connections first.

First and foremost thanks for the extensive response ...yes I agree it's very strange the AdvanceTrac and ABS light goes off after the car warms up ...makes sense what you're saying with a connection problem somewhere...could it be the new hub assemblies on front of car? Not sure if the cable/cables that connect from hubs to housings behind mud panels would be the culprit but they could be ....of cours it could be anything if it's electrical ...kinda like drawing a name out of a hat with your eyes closed when it comes to electronic on the LS

 

[04_Sport_LS]

could it be the new hub assemblies on front of car?

That would be the first place I would check. Unlpug and plug back in. Also... check that the terminals inside the connectors on both halves of the plugs,,, haven't slid back in the connector housing. Check the routing of the wires too,,, at full wheel lock, (both directions), to make sure they aren't being pulled taught or getting stretched.

 

[AmsterDutch]

That would be the first place I would check. Unlpug and plug back in. Also... check that the terminals inside the connectors on both halves of the plugs,,, haven't slid back in the connector housing. Check the routing of the wires too,,, at full wheel lock, (both directions), to make sure they aren't being pulled taught or getting stretched.

Absolutely....I will be doing all you said ...Thanks 04'

 

[RigsLS]

Dutch, disconnect all wheel speed sensor connectors at all hubs, spray clean both terminal ends with contact cleaner, add di-electric grease directly in the prongs of the connectors. Click them firmly back into place ensuring they are properly seated and hear/feel the click when doing so.

As Joe already mentioned above, while these Malfuntion Indicator Lamps are lite up on your dash, the system is already in a fault state and thus INOP as in not working nor functioning at all. This means, in a fault state ABS and Trac control is out the window. It is experiencing a fault and is disabled until corrected.

The ECM requires a reading on all wheel speed sensors to determine it's movements. The ABS and Traction control needs to see a value so it can make calculations on what to do with each wheel when and as needed.

When such value is missing because one or more of the wheel speed sensors are not able to populate the active field, the entire functionality of the ABS and Trac control is lost.

It's not uncommon during the colder months of the year for some condensation, frost or icy sludge to form around the sensors thus causing this very issue you are experiencing.

While cleaning and re-seating the sensor connectors, using superman glasses, do take the time to thoroughly observe/inspect the wiring harness, the rubber sealing boots, the teeth on the hub and the alignment of the sensors positioning in relation to the teeth on the hub. Check sensors for micro-cracks.

Right Rear wheel speed sensor!
Di-electric grease!

GLWR

 

[AmsterDutch]

Dutch, disconnect all wheel speed sensor connectors at all hubs, spray clean both terminal ends with contact cleaner, add di-electric grease directly in the prongs of the connectors. Click them firmly back into place ensuring they are properly seated and hear/feel the click when doing so.

As Joe already mentioned above, while these Malfuntion Indicator Lamps are lite up on your dash, the system is already in a fault state and thus INOP as in not working nor functioning at all. This means, in a fault state ABS and Trac control is out the window. It is experiencing a fault and is disabled until corrected.

The ECM requires a reading on all wheel speed sensors to determine it's movements. The ABS and Traction control needs to see a value so it can make calculations on what to do with each wheel when and as needed.

When such value is missing because one or more of the wheel speed sensors are not able to populate the active field, the entire functionality of the ABS and Trac control is lost.

It's not uncommon during the colder months of the year for some condensation, frost or icy sludge to form around the sensors thus causing this very issue you are experiencing.

While cleaning and re-seating the sensor connectors, using superman glasses, do take the time to thoroughly observe/inspect the wiring harness, the rubber sealing boots, the teeth on the hub and the alignment of the sensors positioning in relation to the teeth on the hub. Check sensors for micro-cracks.

Right Rear wheel speed sensor!
Di-electric grease!

GLWR

Thanks a million for such a thorough response I will be doing everything you mentioned ...thanks again everyone for your help this forum Rocks!!!!!!!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

@RigsLS

Well Holy cow... look who's back from hiatus! I was just thinking about you a couple days ago.

 

[RigsLS]

Yup, lifted my own SELF-BANNED status.

Was suggested for me to not come back because apparently I’m nothing but trouble and no good.

See if more of my contributions get deleted for lame reasons going forth.

Not really into it but members need more than just stick on plastics.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

because apparently I’m nothing but trouble and no good.

Well... ya can be a bit of an onry cuss sometimes. I know, I know... takes one to know one.

 

[AmsterDutch]

Right Rear wheel speed sensor!
Di-electric grease!

GLWR[/QUOTE]
Update....my ABS & AdvanceTrac lights haven't came on since cleaning the wheel speed sensors and using Di-electric grease I had some left over from when I changed out the Coil-over-plugs this last fall thanks for the advice much appreciated Rigs, 04' and Joegr you guys were spot on again!!! Problem solved!

 

[roncoinc]

Well,,it WAS pleasant around here for awhile....

 

[RigsLS]

... and Ron checkmates.

Emoji Waving

Too busy with the 370 anyhow.
Many LS parts for sale this spring.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Well,,it WAS pleasant around here for awhile....

Aw c'mon now... I was just having a little fun. No harm meant.

Rigs... beyond pleasant personal conversations with you,,, you know you've taken a couple jabs at me on this forum. Especially when my keyboard was FUBAR. (notice it's working now?)