Lincoln LS no compression

I

Imanol Alamillo

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Hi guys, it's been a while since I posted a while ago about COP's going bad on my LS. Since then the car ran fine (changed the COP's at about 27,000km and now the odometer reads close to 55,000km).
The problem is the engine lost compression all of a sudden. The car was running fine as always when I parked it in the afternoon, and next day tried to crank it and it sounded like if it was freewheeling (like it sounds when a timing chain breakes and there is no compression on the engine).
Already checked compression and is very very low (50 psi average on the 8 cylinders :eek: ).
I also removed both valve covers to check timing and all the chains/tensioners/guides are ok, no loose chains and the timing marks on the camshafts line up as they should.
I read about the nikasil blocks suddenly failing and wanted to know if there is a chance mine could have this problem. The build date in the engine is 27/01/2000.
Thanks in advance!
 
So I continued to diagnose the engine and had to remove it from the car. I did it from the top despite what the manual said. The dowel pins to center the engine with the transmission had rust on them so it was a bit difficult to separate the engine.
I have a few doubts about the timing. Some people say that when the #1 piston is at TDC the flats on the camshafts must line up perfectly, and I also found that some people state the crankshaft must be rotated 45° ATDC and then the flats should line up. Don't know which one is the correct one.
I already removed all the timing components wich appeared to be in excellent condition (the secondary tensioners are still the plastic ones but are in great shape). Removed cylinder heads and there is no evidence of vale/piston collision.
My last option is to check piston rings to see if they went south or what really happenen to this engine.

This picture is with #1 piston at TDC.
IMG00729-20130204-1824.jpg


Engine out
IMG00737-20130209-2055.jpg
 
You need the shop manual. I have never heard of an engine that blew all the rings at the same time; especially such a young one. The LS uses iron liners, not a nikasil coating. The Jag version used the coating.
 
Couple things:

Bravo for a 4-day engine pull! Most people wouldn't have that done in a few weeks time, especially the method you chose - out the top :eek:. Eight undercarriage bolts, four transmission crossmember bolts and the same hoses you already had to pull and it can be done in 5hrs with a pal.

Second: I don't think I would have gone through all that trouble off compression failings to all 8 cylinders...like the others stated, I wouldv'e suspected the easy things first (i.e compression gauge, or timing). You should've removed the valve cover when doing the compression check to make sure everything is spinning correctly.

Third: Yes, 45 degress ATD lines the flates up. I believe the crank key for the balancer should be pointed at 6 o'clock.

All 8 pistons having ring failures seems waaay out there as the issue. If it's true, you need to pick up a few lotto tickets tomorrow.

Keeps us posted. Good luck
 
What I honestly don't understand is why you would pull the motor without verifying the cam timing. I forget how these engine have the main chain routed but you'd have to jump several teeth at the crank for the symptoms you've described.

One huge flag is did you prop the throttle plate open when you did the compression check? A closed throttle will cause the reading to be low. Does your gauge read '0' with nothing connected? Did you crank the engine over 3-5 pulses with a fresh battery. Again, the results are only as good as the methods used.

Now with the engine on the ground you have no idea what to do or how to do it. About the only thing you can do before tearing it apart is verify the cam timing and do a leakdown test on the cylinders. Maybe the chains jumped and you just bent all your valves. Otherwise I don't see this turning out well
 
Ranchero50 said:
What I honestly don't understand is why you would pull the motor without verifying the cam timing. I forget how these engine have the main chain routed but you'd have to jump several teeth at the crank for the symptoms you've described...
Click to expand...

Actually, at least two chains would have to jump to get low compression on both banks.
 
joegr said:
Actually, at least two chains would have to jump to get low compression on both banks.
Click to expand...

+1. Hence my disbelief since there is theoretically no way that this happened or that what....16 compression rings (or 8?.... can't remember which rings are which) bit it all at the same time.

If that gauge was off and the starter was not spinning the flywheel....You could've done a lot of back-breaking work for no reason.
 
First of all, thank you guys for taking the time to respond to the thread.
The compression gauge is working as it should, since I tested it on another car.
I already took the timing chains cover to inspect things up and hooked up the starter to the engine to turn it over.
The owner told me he used to drive to a local shop to get maintenance services done over there,and when the engine failed to start the sop owner said he would not tackle the
Job since that engine is so complex and bla bla.
I went to the referred shop and guess what. They use standard 25w60 oil for ALL the cars they change the oil on.
So I went and filled the engine with the oil they use and cranked it with the starter.
The higher viscosity made the primary tensioners fail to contact the timing guide and the chains had a lot of play.
This caused both primary chains to jump the timing.
Already removed cylinder heads and almost all the valves are screwed.
Going to check if everything else os ok.
 
purevilpleasure said:
They use what for oil?
Click to expand...

Some European cars do use that weight oil. I think that the OP should forget about the toasted engine he has now and find another engine. In addition to all the damage that he does see, all the bearings were starved of oil and are probably damaged too.
 
Imanol Alamillo said:
They use standard 25w60 oil for ALL the
Click to expand...

You have a toasted engine for sure! I would NEVER go to that shop again! For ANYTHING!! If they put that oil in the engine in the first place no wonder you had no compression!

You know guys, dealers have become more competitive price-wise in recent years. In the case of the LS (remember, there were less than 275K TOTAL cars produced) the dealer just may be the better option!
 
Wow. 25w60. Is this shop mostly a harley shop or something? I've only ever seen oil that thick used in harleys, older aircraft, and farm tractors.
 
LS4me said:
... In the case of the LS (remember, there were less than 275K TOTAL cars produced) the dealer just may be the better option!
Click to expand...

You're assuming that there is a Lincoln dealer anywhere near Saltillo (Mexico, I assume).
 
joegr said:
You're assuming that there is a Lincoln dealer anywhere near Saltillo (Mexico, I assume).
Click to expand...

I didn't see that. I meant that in general terms. So many people want to dis dealers when, IMHO, they are the best option for an orphan car. I do use an independent for the basic stuff that I trust for my LSes. My dealer moved so it's either the Ford dealer (DEFINITELY NOT a Lincoln dealer!) or my local guy. My local guy hasn't let me down, yet.
 
Yep, I was also surprised on what I saw on that shop, same oil viscosity for all the engines they receive :(
Actually there is a Lincoln dealer and I am friend of one of the service techs. He was going to loan me the tools to get the timing right and to get the necessary parts, but I guess I won't be needing that now.
I'll start searching for a new engine. The dealership can sell me a new shortblock for about $5500 but seems way to much to put in the car.
 
That's too bad.....no way to sock it to the other shop?

Is it posted that's what they use and if something else is required you must specify kinda thing?

How's the rest of the car?
 
Does 25w60 have a bottle, or does the surface tension just hold it in quart shape?
 
scjmc said:
Does 25w60 have a bottle, or does the surface tension just hold it in quart shape?
Click to expand...

LOL ... it comes in stick form and you have to drop them down the engine oil fill neck ?
 
Why not just rebuild the engine

I don't understand why you don't just get new vves and rebuild the top if the engine. That's cheaper than buying a scrap motor from a wrecker. I think I have the same problem. What's the update with your car. Can you post many pictures to view. Include as many as possible about what your doing.


Imanol Alamillo said:
First of all, thank you guys for taking the time to respond to the thread.
The compression gauge is working as it should, since I tested it on another car.
I already took the timing chains cover to inspect things up and hooked up the starter to the engine to turn it over.
The owner told me he used to drive to a local shop to get maintenance services done over there,and when the engine failed to start the sop owner said he would not tackle the
Job since that engine is so complex and bla bla.
I went to the referred shop and guess what. They use standard 25w60 oil for ALL the cars they change the oil on.
So I went and filled the engine with the oil they use and cranked it with the starter.
The higher viscosity made the primary tensioners fail to contact the timing guide and the chains had a lot of play.
This caused both primary chains to jump the timing.
Already removed cylinder heads and almost all the valves are screwed.
Going to check if everything else os ok.
Click to expand...
 
I believe I might have the same issue as you as my timing chain most definitely have skipped. Why do you need to buy a new scrapped engine, when you have already taken it oh and can rebuild your home in June. How much can it cost to get the cylinder head and the vowels replace compared to getting a scrap engine. I'm probably going to pull my engine as well, so can you please post many pictures of what you're doing and how you're rebuilding this engine and how you're taking it apart.
 
One reason to replace the whole engine is because the valves are damaged when they hit the pistons. This can damage the pistons too. Good luck finding individual parts for the bottom of the engine...
 
^+1
I had a valve stick open on an Olds 350. The oil ring land below the impact point broke off, oil ring snuck out and quickly destroyed the cylinder.
 
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