Lincoln LS-R at SEMA - Photos

The REAL answer to the question is because it does not provide a means of inducing a cold air stream to the engine. They can say all they want about it but CAI systems are well proven to produce verifiable power gains. To leave an air filter just sitting in the engine compartment, unprotected from hot engine recirc air, is ridiculous. And to make some lame statement trying to make excuses for it is even worse. If you don't see that, you don't understand much about what goes on under your hood.
 
So what do you propose for a CAI, have the thing sticking out from the hood??? The thing is as far away from the engine as possible and has the air flow coming through the grill. For you to come around and say that is not a good installation just shows your ignorance.
 
VTOgre said:
So what do you propose for a CAI, have the thing sticking out from the hood??? The thing is as far away from the engine as possible and has the air flow coming through the grill. For you to come around and say that is not a good installation just shows your ignorance.
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THANK YOU! That's what I'm trying to say here. Kevin, you don't know anything about the LS and don't claim that you do. Stick with the Cadillac and stay away from the LS please. Also, if you could see right below where the filter is there is a huge hole where air is brought from underneath the car for "cool" air. Also, there are several LLSOC members that have routed a tube from the front of the air dam to the hole just below the filter to bring in the outside air. It's receiving much cooler air than the engine is bringing in so as far as your stupid comment that's I don't know what I'm talking about then definitely stick with your GM product. You don't know crap about a Ford product. :F
 
VTOgre said:
So what do you propose for a CAI, have the thing sticking out from the hood??? The thing is as far away from the engine as possible and has the air flow coming through the grill. For you to come around and say that is not a good installation just shows your ignorance.
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Personally... I don't care what you people are doing to your LS'. But don't make comments like this unless you know what you are talking about. It does not matter how "far away from the engine" the filter is... it is still under the hood! Abient air temps ARE STILL THE SAME. As for the "air coming through the grill" statemnt you made.. take a closer look.. the ONLY air coming through the grill is actually the air passing through the radiator first, you know... the thing that pulls heat from the 200 degree coolant in your engine. The obvious solution to the problem is a heat shield. The heat shield will block most engine heat, and allow the filter to draw air from the hole in the fender, and the hole under the stock air box location.

Now, if you guys REALLY want me to, I could post screen shots from my OTC showing you the difference from stock IAT and open element IAT. Stock IAT is usually within 10 degrees of outside air.... open element (without a heatshield) can reach temperatures of over 160F!
 
mikepietras04 said:
Personally... I don't care what you people are doing to your LS'. But don't make comments like this unless you know what you are talking about. It does not matter how "far away from the engine" the filter is... it is still under the hood! Abient air temps ARE STILL THE SAME. As for the "air coming through the grill" statemnt you made.. take a closer look.. the ONLY air coming through the grill is actually the air passing through the radiator first, you know... the thing that pulls heat from the 200 degree coolant in your engine. The obvious solution to the problem is a heat shield. The heat shield will block most engine heat, and allow the filter to draw air from the hole in the fender, and the hole under the stock air box location.

Now, if you guys REALLY want me to, I could post screen shots from my OTC showing you the difference from stock IAT and open element IAT. Stock IAT is usually within 10 degrees of outside air.... open element (without a heatshield) can reach temperatures of over 160F!
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We have been experimenting with an enclosed box for the filter and providing "ram" air to the box at our shop. See picture below:

airbox6.jpg


We've taken temperature readings on the inside of the box and outside box on a 90+ degree day at idle and highway speeds. The temperature inside the engine away from the filter was much higher (around 190 degrees) and lower at the filter (around 130 degrees) without the box. We added the box and ran another trial and showed that with the enclosed box around the filter and forcing ram air the temp was constant around 100 degrees. That's pretty significant on a warm day this past summer. It is agreeable that the enclosed filter does show a decrease in temp.

Air coming through the grille isn't where fresh air is getting to the filter. It's the hole just below the filter where the factory air box use to sit. We have added a 3" flex hose from the lower air dam and routed it to the bottom of that hole to provide "ram" air so to speak to the filter. Very seldom does the filter area stay the same ambient temperature as the rest of the engine while the car is moving. I hope we all can agree on that statement.
 
thanks for clearing that up, but i still don't see why a show car needs such a nasty spoiler. While yes, you say it needs a spoiler and I now know why, why didn't they use one that works with the car? There are virtually hundreds, if not thousands, of spoilers to choose from. Find one that matches the car!
 
caddyshack17901 said:
thanks for clearing that up, but i still don't see why a show car needs such a nasty spoiler. While yes, you say it needs a spoiler and I now know why, why didn't they use one that works with the car? There are virtually hundreds, if not thousands, of spoilers to choose from. Find one that matches the car!
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it's not a show car - read - he is hoping to race it in the grand-am series.... THEY ALL HAVE THESE GOOFY SPOILERs.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
We have been experimenting with an enclosed box for the filter and providing "ram" air to the box at our shop. See picture below:

airbox6.jpg


We've taken temperature readings on the inside of the box and outside box on a 90+ degree day at idle and highway speeds. The temperature inside the engine away from the filter was much higher (around 190 degrees) and lower at the filter (around 130 degrees) without the box. We added the box and ran another trial and showed that with the enclosed box around the filter and forcing ram air the temp was constant around 100 degrees. That's pretty significant on a warm day this past summer. It is agreeable that the enclosed filter does show a decrease in temp.

Air coming through the grille isn't where fresh air is getting to the filter. It's the hole just below the filter where the factory air box use to sit. We have added a 3" flex hose from the lower air dam and routed it to the bottom of that hole to provide "ram" air so to speak to the filter. Very seldom does the filter area stay the same ambient temperature as the rest of the engine while the car is moving. I hope we all can agree on that statement.
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Oh gee, why put a box around it? Why would you make the statements that you did to me and then turn around and basically prove my point in this post? Dude, you make no sense.
Oh and BTW, sorry I guess only GM cars have to deal with the laws of physics. :rolleyes:
 
Katshot said:
Oh gee, why put a box around it? Why would you make the statements that you did to me and then turn around and basically prove my point in this post? Dude, you make no sense.
Oh and BTW, sorry I guess only GM cars have to deal with the laws of physics. :rolleyes:
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I guess you'll never understand anything will you. We are trying to prove whether or not it makes sense to put a box around it. Hello! Re-read the post man.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
I guess you'll never understand anything will you. We are trying to prove whether or not it makes sense to put a box around it. Hello! Re-read the post man.
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From your post:
"...It is agreeable that the enclosed filter does show a decrease in temp..."

So what's so hard to figure out about this? I think you just like to argue. Every OEM in the WORLD isolates inlet air from engine compartment heat. Why do you suppose they do that?
 
Katshot said:
From your post:
"...It is agreeable that the enclosed filter does show a decrease in temp..."

So what's so hard to figure out about this? I think you just like to argue. Every OEM in the WORLD isolates inlet air from engine compartment heat. Why do you suppose they do that?
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Don't mean to call you out or anything, but I know that older neons with singe cam engines and 4.0 wranglers got air from right under the hood. They both had a flared snorkle coming right off of the air box. But i cant think of any others (fuel injected i mean).


Side note: I worked on a 00 LS yesterday that had spots on the hood, and roof with the paint eaten down to bare metal. I asked the customer what happened, he said vandals/battery acid. (didnt know battery acid would eat paint, i know its corrosive as $hit, but with paint? i think it was probably brake fluid... brake fluid will strip paint like its nothing). Anyways... i had a co-worker take a picture with his camera phone, ill try to post pics next time i get a chance.... it will make you LS owners cringe.
 
mikepietras04 said:
Don't mean to call you out or anything, but I know that older neons with singe cam engines and 4.0 wranglers got air from right under the hood. They both had a flared snorkle coming right off of the air box. But i cant think of any others (fuel injected i mean).


Side note: I worked on a 00 LS yesterday that had spots on the hood, and roof with the paint eaten down to bare metal. I asked the customer what happened, he said vandals/battery acid. (didnt know battery acid would eat paint, i know its corrosive as $hit, but with paint? i think it was probably brake fluid... brake fluid will strip paint like its nothing). Anyways... i had a co-worker take a picture with his camera phone, ill try to post pics next time i get a chance.... it will make you LS owners cringe.
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Battery acid will eat anything, but glass. Afterall, it is sulfuric acid.
 
LS4me said:
Battery acid will eat anything, but glass. Afterall, it is sulfuric acid.
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Well, the sulfuric acid also doesnt eat into the plastic case the battery is made of. And either will brake fluid. The cowling, and drivers headlight on the LS were deformed very badly, so it could have been something else.

The sulfuric acid in a lead acid batter is dilluted with water and is not nearly as strong as pure sulfuric acid. The sulfuric acid cant be too high in concentration of the reaction between the lead plate (anode) and the oxidized lead plate (cathode) will not happen properly.
 
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Air coming through the grille isn't where fresh air is getting to the filter. It's the hole just below the filter where the factory air box use to sit. We have added a 3" flex hose from the lower air dam and routed it to the bottom of that hole to provide "ram" air so to speak to the filter. Very seldom does the filter area stay the same ambient temperature as the rest of the engine while the car is moving. I hope we all can agree on that statement.[/QUOTE]

Hey Gray - are you going to put this heat shield box on the LSK site? I don't have a custom shop and this is the main place I go to for ideas. Plus, what kind of tube is used to move the air from the lower dam? A plastic tube, pvc, steel.....?

Thanks.
:feedback
 
Midas78 said:
Air coming through the grille isn't where fresh air is getting to the filter. It's the hole just below the filter where the factory air box use to sit. We have added a 3" flex hose from the lower air dam and routed it to the bottom of that hole to provide "ram" air so to speak to the filter. Very seldom does the filter area stay the same ambient temperature as the rest of the engine while the car is moving. I hope we all can agree on that statement.
Click to expand...

Hey Gray - are you going to put this heat shield box on the LSK site? I don't have a custom shop and this is the main place I go to for ideas. Plus, what kind of tube is used to move the air from the lower dam? A plastic tube, pvc, steel.....?

Thanks.
:feedback[/QUOTE]
I used some flex tubing from the lower grille to the inlet where the existing air box was. This has been working very well. As for the heat shield box, my partner in crime was working on it but he has since switched gears and is working on his two street rods. He may play around with it this summer. I'm still on him about it.
 
You can buy plastic 3" tubing for dirt cheap at home depot.
It fits perfectly (with some sweat) and didnt need to do anything to keep it in place in that oval hole. That should bring in much colder air than without it. BUT I think shield or enclosed box is must.
even with my setup, where I think Im bringing more air than just having a tube (Im sure all you know that I used the stock airbox for a scoop effect), air cone gets pretty hot. those of you who have KKM filters, next time you turn your engine off, touch the chrome metal part of KKM filter. It's pretty hot. so Im guessing that even with bringing outside air, temp gets pretty hot in the engine compartment. I definitely have to get a enclosed box made.
Im working on a template in my spare time and will make a plastic box (at local plastic store). if fitment is good, I'll let you all know.
 
Where did you put the scoop for more air? In front of the radiator or below the front bumper? I'm thinking of doing something like that this weekend.
 
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so I don't know if someone else said that your rollbar padding is too soft to offer any protection. You need to use the really hard, fire resistive padding.
 
loveLSE said:
this is what I did. scoop is right next to driver side foglights. You would need to cut out the plastic that's surrounding the radiator. you'll know once you look under the car.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=6161&highlight=angel
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Did you use have to use a saw to cut through the plastic? And this mod looks permanent, I'd hate to try and resell the car with a gap like that near the radiator. Any ideas? I'd only sell the car to get a new model by the way. :L
 
Midas78 said:
Did you use have to use a saw to cut through the plastic? And this mod looks permanent, I'd hate to try and resell the car with a gap like that near the radiator. Any ideas? I'd only sell the car to get a new model by the way. :L
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I used a dremel tool - cutout a nice round hole - you can always epoxy it back in later.
 
Quik LS said:
I used a dremel tool - cutout a nice round hole - you can always epoxy it back in later.
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How did you get the air box behind the lower grill? Did you remove the bumper? I was thinking the plastic behind the grill needed to be cut off to slide the box in, not a just hole put in for the air hose.
 
nope - I just removed the plastic belly splash guard, IIRC there are 7 small screws and one push pin. Once it's off - you can reach up there no problem.

I then placed the box behind the grill, tie-wrapped it in - then ran the hose through the rad shield to the box.
 
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